I don't care how they're scored. You could also argue that Subban's the most dangerous PP point defenseman in the game. Also, Subban had 11 goals to Letang's 5 (again, in 7 more games).

But aside from stats, Subban is, in my opinion, a better skater and a harder hitter. But Letang is a better all-around defenseman. I'd probably slide to Letang, but I don't think it's cut-and dry either.

Any way you slice it, Letang's a top-3 defenseman (at least this year). I still think Weber's the best in the game and that Karlsson will lead defensemen in scoring next year. You can never count out Chara. But Letang should at least be in the running for the next 4-5 years minimum.
- jmatchett383

Only thing i disagree with you on. Letang is an amazing skater, and, i think, better than Subban.

Well, if he hang on, at least we won't hear Ottawa fans saying they wouldn't want a Crosby on their team.

I prefer the Ottawa match-up as opposed to a Toronto or Rags match-up.

Ottawa has solid to very good goaltending; a better defense than the Islanders, but they aren't as loaded offensively and aren't as quick.
- Oneonta Penguin

Yeah, I'm basing this on that game about a week and a half before the end of the season, where you were missing Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal, and still your team quickness, passing, decision making were just above and beyond anything I've seen since that Detroit team juggernaut in the early 2000's.

Would be very surprised not to see the Pens in the finals this year, and somewhat surprised not to see them win it.

The only question, does Pageau have sustaining ability meaning he will continue to develop after the play-offs as opposed to Regin, who I thought would be a star after his performance against us and he has busted.
- Oneonta Penguin

I think he does, Regin was already 24 when he had that one good series, and even then he brings no special skills.

This Pageau can play any role from what I've seen, he's legit. The year him and Huberdeau were drafted, Huberdeau won league MVP and the memorial cup, but it was Pageau who led the league in scoring over Huberdeau.

I always hated Regin.

Yeah, the top 3 for the next several years to come will likely consist of a handful of guys (Suter, PK, Karlsson, Letang, Keith, Weber & Ekman-Larsson). I think Chara's Norris days are past him. He's looked bad at times this season.
- rival22

Add Pietrangelo to that list.

I don't care how they're scored. You could also argue that Subban's the most dangerous PP point defenseman in the game. Also, Subban had 11 goals to Letang's 5 (again, in 7 more games).

But aside from stats, Subban is, in my opinion, a better skater and a harder hitter. But Letang is a better all-around defenseman. I'd probably slide to Letang, but I don't think it's cut-and dry either.

Any way you slice it, Letang's a top-3 defenseman (at least this year). I still think Weber's the best in the game and that Karlsson will lead defensemen in scoring next year. You can never count out Chara. But Letang should at least be in the running for the next 4-5 years minimum.
- jmatchett383

No chance he's a better skater, even at most.

And who really gives a poop how hard someone hits? all that matters is that your hits serve their purpose in taking the player out of the play or off the puck.

PK's patented leaping buttplow doesn't impress me, he puts himself way out of position often to try and make those.

No chance he's a better skater, even at most.

And who really gives a poop how hard someone hits? all that matters is that your hits serve their purpose in taking the player out of the play or off the puck.

PK's patented leaping buttplow doesn't impress me, he puts himself way out of position often to try and make those.
- TommyDeVito

I'll give you that, he does sometimes sacrifice position for the big hit. But it does matter, a big hit can energize a building or bench when things are down. They definitely matter. Letang can throw the occasional bomb as well, but Subban does it more often.

Also, I think you may be a bit biased right now.

Add Pietrangelo to that list.
- bri29smith

Good call... He's there too.

Some great defensemen in the league, and of that list, Suter is the oldest at 28. We have many years to watch these guys.

Yeah, the top 3 for the next several years to come will likely consist of a handful of guys (Suter, PK, Karlsson, Letang, Keith, Weber & Ekman-Larsson). I think Chara's Norris days are past him. He's looked bad at times this season.
- rival22

Yep - Karlsson, Pietrangelo, Chara, Suter, Weber, Letang, Ekman-Larsson are who I'd expect.

You also have a few dark horse young guys who may find their offense/rediscover their form/take an upturn in development: Doughty, Adam Larsson, Hedman, and Brendan Smith.

and let's not forget this Seth Jones kid, he sounds like a gem from what I'm reading.

I'll give you that, he does sometimes sacrifice position for the big hit. But it does matter, a big hit can energize a building or bench when things are down. They definitely matter. Letang can throw the occasional bomb as well, but Subban does it more often.

Also, I think you may be a bit biased right now.
- jmatchett383

Nah, I've always thought he was overrated. Even in midseason when he had a big PP point streak, and it looked like no chance they play each other in the playoffs, I had an epic fight with the habs fans about why he's overrated and shouldn't win the Norris.

Nah, I've always thought he was overrated. Even in midseason when he had a big PP point streak, and it looked like no chance they play each other in the playoffs, I had an epic fight with the habs fans about why he's overrated and shouldn't win the Norris.
- TommyDeVito

I'm not sure I'd say overrated. The guy produces at a pretty good clip (PP and ES be damned). Good skater, good passer, has a booming, accurate shot. The only real knock I have on him is that he has some immaturity issues, but I think that will cease a bit over time.

Also: She Weber should win the Norris because he's Shea Weber. Whatever team he plays for should automatically qualify for a playoff spot so that the world can be blessed with his beard.

45% said Crosby dove. 100% of those were Pens haters.

I'll give you that, he does sometimes sacrifice position for the big hit. But it does matter, a big hit can energize a building or bench when things are down. They definitely matter. Letang can throw the occasional bomb as well, but Subban does it more often.

Also, I think you may be a bit biased right now.
- jmatchett383

Are these numbers biased?

Letang - TOI/G 25:38, shorthanded TOI/G 2:12, +16, 8 PIMs, 38 pts, even strength pts 25

Subban - TOI/G 23:14, Shorthanded TOI/G 1:27, +12, 57 PIMs, 38 pts, even strength points 12.

Letang was used more at even strength and the penalty kill, but Subban had a very slight advantage on the PP TOI/G. Yet Letang had just as many points as subban, a better +/-, less PIMS, and much better EV pts.

dont forget letang also played 7 less games and Subban missed the first few games because he held out on his contract.

Are these numbers biased?

Letang - TOI/G 25:38, shorthanded TOI/G 2:12, +16, 8 PIMs, 38 pts, even strength pts 25

Subban - TOI/G 23:14, Shorthanded TOI/G 1:27, +12, 57 PIMs, 38 pts, even strength points 12.

Letang was used more at even strength and the penalty kill, but Subban had a very slight advantage on the PP TOI/G. Yet Letang had just as many points as subban, a better +/-, less PIMS, and much better EV pts.

dont forget letang also played 7 less games and Subban missed the first few games because he held out on his contract.
- drummer829

Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forfty percent of all people know that.

But seriously, I'm looking more at their overall game rather than their statistics. I think they both have similar skill sets where each has an advantage in certain regards.

Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forfty percent of all people know that.
- jmatchett383

60% of the time, it works everytime

I don't care how they're scored. You could also argue that Subban's the most dangerous PP point defenseman in the game. Also, Subban had 11 goals to Letang's 5 (again, in 7 more games).

But aside from stats, Subban is, in my opinion, a better skater and a harder hitter. But Letang is a better all-around defenseman. I'd probably slide to Letang, but I don't think it's cut-and dry either.

Any way you slice it, Letang's a top-3 defenseman (at least this year). I still think Weber's the best in the game and that Karlsson will lead defensemen in scoring next year. You can never count out Chara. But Letang should at least be in the running for the next 4-5 years minimum.
- jmatchett383

Subban is not a better skater than Letang. Kris can play a physical game despite his size. Subban can hit harder only because of his size. He isn't exactly small.

Subban is not a better skater than Letang. Kris can play a physical game despite his size. Subban can hit harder only because of his size. He isn't exactly small.
- Oneonta Penguin

I never said Letang can't play physically. Just than Subban is more impactful with some of his hits. But I do think a fight between the 2 would be interesting. I think Letang has more skill but Subban's stronger.

Subban is not a better skater than Letang. Kris can play a physical game despite his size. Subban can hit harder only because of his size. He isn't exactly small.
- Oneonta Penguin

I laugh anytime someone says this guy is a better skater than Letang!!! He's as good as it gets in the skating department. Karlsson and Letang both then everybody else.

I never said Letang can't play physically. Just than Subban is more impactful with some of his hits. But I do think a fight between the 2 would be interesting. I think Letang has more skill but Subban's stronger.
- jmatchett383

I didn't debate your comment about being more impactful as far as hits. There is a pretty decent size differential. Just merely stating, despite his size, he can get physical if he desires.

60% of the time, it works everytime
- drummer829

It's quite pungent.....a formidable scent. It stings the nostrils, in a good way.

I laugh anytime someone says this guy is a better skater than Letang!!! He's as good as it gets in the skating department. Karlsson and Letang both then everybody else.
- lloyd095

Karlsson is the only guy I'd pause over saying Letang is a better skater than as far as blueliners. The rest, nope.

I never said Letang can't play physically. Just than Subban is more impactful with some of his hits. But I do think a fight between the 2 would be interesting. I think Letang has more skill but Subban's stronger.
- jmatchett383

thats because letang knows how to pick his hits. ive seen subban try to take the body and get out of position. Letang is simply a smarter defender and much better all around defenseman than subban.

de·fense (d-fns)
n.
A means or method of defending or protecting.

subban does not fit that definition very well

It's quite pungent.....a formidable scent. It stings the nostrils, in a good way.
- cap1681

. thank you for understanding

I'm not sure I'd say overrated. The guy produces at a pretty good clip (PP and ES be damned). Good skater, good passer, has a booming, accurate shot. The only real knock I have on him is that he has some immaturity issues, but I think that will cease a bit over time.

Also: She Weber should win the Norris because he's Shea Weber. Whatever team he plays for should automatically qualify for a playoff spot so that the world can be blessed with his beard.
- jmatchett383

Maybe they'll trade him to the flyers after his one calendar year is up.

Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forfty percent of all people know that.

But seriously, I'm looking more at their overall game rather than their statistics. I think they both have similar skill sets where each has an advantage in certain regards.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, but the argument is who deserves the Norris this year, not "do they have comparable skill sets, gnomesayin'?

Karlsson is the only guy I'd pause over saying Letang is a better skater than as far as blueliners. The rest, nope.
- Oneonta Penguin

Skating isn't even the reason Karlsson and Letang are different than most defenders - it's their vision and anticipation of the play.