Absolutely. But the market is the market. The Flyers went out and signed the biggest name goalie Goalie available.
- MJL

Fixed.

For goalies, you either get really lucky and poach a guy like Lehtonon/Niemi/Rask, or you have to be willing to endure the long, languid pace of development to try to grow one at home. A lot easier said than done, I'm afraid.
- Tomahawk

This goes back to scouting imo, what I mentioned the other day.

They are great at forwards, but if we now look at goaltending instead of d-men who was the last Flyer goaltender they drafted that was more than average and stayed with the team for more than 5 years?

That scouting to me, is a huge issue. Too one dimensional with forwards who pan out, but when it comes to building a complete team, brutal.

Goaltenders and d-men are simply not found, well evaluated, and developed by the organization. I dont know how the hell those scouts have kept the jobs, or others havent been brought in to help.

For goalies, you either get really lucky and poach a guy like Lehtonon/Niemi/Rask, or you have to be willing to endure the long, languid pace of development to try to grow one at home. A lot easier said than done, I'm afraid.
- Tomahawk

Osgood is not known as a "great" goalie and still has Cups. I want today's version of Osgood and a good D in front of him. We had that until Pronger went down. I trust Homer to do that again (assemble a D corps unlike any under Clarke after he broke up Howe and McCrimmon) - if he's not handcuffed again by his boss.

I'd be in that mindset too.

However I could see why Snider said that because the Flyers basically became a joke with their goaltending. Which as well, I think they still somewhat are. Sad to say but yeah...

There are goaltenders in the league who imo are as good as Bryz and paid in that smaller bracket. Hiller, Rask, Lehtonen, Halak, and Anderson. Hell you might even be able to throw Niemi, Holtby and Pavalec and Reimer into that bracket.

Out of the really top paid guys in the league. Quick, Price, Rinne, Miller, Lundqvist and hell even Kipper.

Woudl you rank Bryzgalov below all of those players? I would. To me anyway, thats kind of telling.
- flyer_nutter

You can't look at players and how they're paid like that. The circumstances are different. If a young Goalie like Rask hits Free Agency, and he's the best available Goalie, what do you think is going to happen? You can't compare players of different age, contract status, and experience. And that signed their deals under completely different circumstances. That's shortsighted.

Fixed.
- Tomahawk

Are you disputing that Bryzgalov was the best available Free Agent Goalie available at the time?

This goes back to scouting imo, what I mentioned the other day.

They are great at forwards, but if we now look at goaltending instead of d-men who was the last Flyer goaltender they drafted that was more than average and stayed with the team for more than 5 years?

That scouting to me, is a huge issue. Too one dimensional with forwards who pan out, but when it comes to building a complete team, brutal.
- flyer_nutter

After you pick them, you still have to be patient enough not to either rush them, or give up on them during the 5-8 years it takes for goalies to ripen on the vine. You also have to hope that the you get lucky medically, as well.

I'd contend that the Flyers amateur scouts have actually unearthed 3 pretty dynamite goalies in recent memory: Niitty, Bob, and to a lesser extent, Eriksson.

Are you disputing that Bryzgalov was the best available Free Agent Goalie available at the time?
- MJL

Um, yes.

How many goalies have the Flyers drafted since 2006? 11?
- Doc_Sarcasm

To me its not simply good enough for the scouting department to be given a pass because they tried to draft some goalies.

Other teams find d-men and goaltenders in the draft. Properly evaluate the talent, and draft those players.

Its not some complete shot in the dark, and I refuse to believe the Flyers are just doomed to only develop forwards.

This goes back to scouting imo, what I mentioned the other day.

They are great at forwards, but if we now look at goaltending instead of d-men who was the last Flyer goaltender they drafted that was more than average and stayed with the team for more than 5 years?

That scouting to me, is a huge issue. Too one dimensional with forwards who pan out, but when it comes to building a complete team, brutal.

Goaltenders and d-men are simply not found, well evaluated, and developed by the organization. I dont know how the hell those scouts have kept the jobs, or others havent been brought in to help.
- flyer_nutter

Does the Flyers lacking patience and trading Bobrovsky fall on Scouting? If anything the Flyers scouting department worked in that situation. It was the decision to trade him that might turn out to be the mistake. Two different things. But the basic point is correct, I'm afraid.

Um, yes.
- Tomahawk

Okay, what Free Agent Goalie that was available that was better?

After you pick them, you still have to be patient enough not to either rush them, or give up on them during the 5-8 years it takes for goalies to ripen on the vine. You also have to hope that the you get lucky medically, as well.

I'd contend that the Flyers amateur scouts have actually unearthed 3 pretty dynamite goalies in recent memory: Niitty, Bob, and to a lesser extent, Eriksson.
- Tomahawk

Patience has a lot to do with it too, but other teams continously find d-men or goaltenders in later rounds of the draft and the Flyers come up short far too often.

Its not good enough anymore imo, to just say "they tried", or its just bad luck.

Again, even with guys they havent kept in the organization. How many players, hell even since the new nhl have the Flyers developed for the league. Now dont look at the forwards, and take a look at the d-men and goaltenders.

Horrific.

Osgood is not known as a "great" goalie and still has Cups. I want today's version of Osgood and a good D in front of him. We had that until Pronger went down. I trust Homer to do that again (assemble a D corps unlike any under Clarke after he broke up Howe and McCrimmon) - if he's not handcuffed again by his boss.
- Flyskippy

No problem.

First order of business, draft a Nick Lidstrom-like dman sometime during the next draft...

To me its not simply good enough for the scouting department to be given a pass because they tried to draft some goalies.

Other teams find d-men and goaltenders in the draft. Properly evaluate the talent, and draft those players.

Its not some complete shot in the dark, and I refuse to believe the Flyers are just doomed to only develop forwards.
- flyer_nutter

I refuse to believe that too.. because if I believe that I might as well abandon all hope right now.

Okay, what Free Agent Goalie that was available that was better?
- MJL

No problem.

First order of business, draft a Nick Lidstrom-like dman sometime during the next draft...
- 77rams

In the 3rd round! I'm curious to see how long it takes Detroit to replace Lidstrom.

I refuse to believe that too.. because if I believe that I might as well abandon all hope right now.
- Doc_Sarcasm

That scouting department for me has gotten a pass for far too long simply because they can find good forwards.

They lack terribly in finding the talent in other areas. Have for years. Its not just this luck thing. Other teams continously find d-men and goaltenders in later rounds of the draft. Its horrific to think about the last d-man or goaltender the Flyers drafted, developed and even had play for them for more than 5 years.

Or when they do find the talent, they ship it out or use it incorrectly. (Sbisa stays up and burns a year off, then is playing 4th line wing?)

That scouting department for me has gotten a pass for far too long simply because they can find good forwards.

They lack terribly in finding the talent in other areas. Have for years. Its not just this luck thing. Other teams continously find d-men and goaltenders in later rounds of the draft. Its horrific to think about the last d-man or goaltender the Flyers drafted, developed and even had play for them for more than 5 years.

Or when they do find the talent, they ship it out or use it incorrectly. (Sbisa stays up and burns a year off, then is playing 4th line wing?)
- flyer_nutter

Even with all that this team still has enough talent to be a playoff team.

No problem.

First order of business, draft a Nick Lidstrom-like dman sometime during the next draft...
- 77rams

Meh. The philosophy was followed with Emery/Boosh in 2009-10 (Leighton came via waivers that season, of course). Worked out fine.

Double post.

That scouting department for me has gotten a pass for far too long simply because they can find good forwards.

They lack terribly in finding the talent in other areas. Have for years. Its not just this luck thing. Other teams continously find d-men and goaltenders in later rounds of the draft. Its horrific to think about the last d-man or goaltender the Flyers drafted, developed and even had play for them for more than 5 years.

Or when they do find the talent, they ship it out or use it incorrectly. (Sbisa stays up and burns a year off, then is playing 4th line wing?)
- flyer_nutter

At least they've got a comparative advantage in something... some scouting groups have picked consistently high in the draft and still turn out nothing but garbage.

Even with all that this team still has enough talent to be a playoff team.
- stveshdy

We will see indeed if they do. Thats been the thing. That they have the talent to be a playoff team.

I'm not so sure, but hope so. I got a vibe from them, and have for a little while that the team relies on talent too much. Looks for the pretty play far too often. All of these highly paid forwards, and forwards who are expected to lead the team better get much better defensively. That is key.

Flyers cant buy a team, or use these finances to leverage themselves as much anymore. They need to realise that.

We will see, but I am trying not to get my hopes up too high. The playoffs will be even harder to make after this year, and I could see this taking a few years. If they do it right, I have no problems. Its analyzing everything now, but when they start playing again I will enjoy watching the kids develop.

At least they've got a comparative advantage in something... some scouting groups have picked consistently high in the draft and still turn out nothing but garbage.
- Tomahawk

For sure. They arent the worst thing in the world.

However in a salary cap era, that I dont think they have caught up to just how important building a complete team through the draft is. Or getting more than forwards out of the draft.

They are being taught it now, the hard way.

We will see indeed if they do. Thats been the thing. That they have the talent to be a playoff team.

I'm not so sure, but hope so. I got a vibe from them, and have for a little while that the team relies on talent too much. Looks for the pretty play far too often.

Flyers cant buy a team, or use these finances to leverage themselves as much anymore. They need to realise that.

We will see, but I am trying not to get my hopes up too high. The playoffs will be even harder to make after this year, and I could see this taking a few years. If they do it right, I have no problems. Its analyzing everything now, but when they start playing again I will enjoy watching the kids develop.
- flyer_nutter

The organization has to make a decision on the direction and that starts with buyout(s). Will see what moves they make. They have talent but they need to utilize it and determine what the strengths and weaknesses are of this team.

Even with all that this team still has enough talent to be a playoff team.
- stveshdy

I have to say, at this point it's not good enough to just be a playoff team. They've been a playoff team every year of my existence except 6 years. It's gotten them nothing.
The eagles had the same philosophy, but people always talk about "superbowl or bust". Jeff Lurey would be hung if he came out and talked about trying hard, and its all voodoo.
I'm tired of seeing the win now mentality. Look at how many teams decided to actually build their teams. I'm more than willing to burn a couple years now if it means building a team like chicago or boston that has depth, youth, and veterans sprinkled in for final touches.

It all starts with Snider. He's the one who keeps making left hand turns instead of staying the course.

For sure. They arent the worst thing in the world.

However in a salary cap era, that I dont think they have caught up to just how important building a complete team through the draft is. Or getting more than forwards out of the draft.

They are being taught it now, the hard way.
- flyer_nutter

I agree but even teams that win the cup still have plenty of players who weren't homegrown.