I think people forget that G scored at a point per game clip this year....
- Giroux_Is_God

And he tried to put the team on his back and carry them. He tried to make things happen. And he forced a lot of plays. And he has to deal with increased pressure that other teams applied to him. And yet after all the circumstances of the Season. Still a point a game player. Top 10 in assists. Shows how good of a player he is.

i think thats actually it though. thats actually a little under what the expectations are for him, especially when combined with the defensive inconsistencies he displayed. not a horrible year by any stretch of the imagination, but as one of those top centers, he should be breaking 90 over a full season.
- stayinthefnnet

Your points are 100% valid. I agree completely, especially with that 90 pt threshold.

That being said- you said it yourself: "a little under expectations".

The way some people are talking about Giroux over this past season, you'd think he put up 60 points.

As someone said earlier in this thread, I'm comfortable playing the learning curve card this season and writing off the supbar performances of G, Cooter, Schenner, etc.

i think thats actually it though. thats actually a little under what the expectations are for him, especially when combined with the defensive inconsistencies he displayed. not a horrible year by any stretch of the imagination, but as one of those top centers, he should be breaking 90 over a full season.
- stayinthefnnet

82 point pace isn't far off of that.

Yes there is absolutely a way to prove one way or another who is a Selke Level player. Watch them play. Watch Toews and Bergeron play. That's what I'm selling. And I don't need a vote to see that.

If you want to make this into something and that's your read on my statements. Not my problem. You asked me a question, and I gave you an answer. You might want to go back and re-read what I said. Because I didn't say that the voting should be discounted entirely.
- MJL

Okay, so I'll just watch them then.

Your points are 100% valid. I agree completely, especially with that 90 pt threshold.

That being said- you said it yourself: "a little under expectations".

The way some people are talking about Giroux over this past season, you'd think he put up 60 points.

As someone said earlier in this thread, I'm comfortable playing the learning curve card this season and writing off the supbar performances of G, Cooter, Schenner, etc.
- Giroux_Is_God

I think there was a lot of circumstances also. The amount of attack time other teams had against the Flyers, due to a poor defensive team game. Limits the amount of time the Flyers have the puck on the attack. I haven't seen the numbers, but I bet the percentage of defensive zone starts for Giroux was way higher then it should be. Because he was really the only good faceoff option the team had. Giroux should be a guy who is high on the offensive zone start side of the ledger.

Your points are 100% valid. I agree completely, especially with that 90 pt threshold.

That being said- you said it yourself: "a little under expectations".

The way some people are talking about Giroux over this past season, you'd think he put up 60 points.

As someone said earlier in this thread, I'm comfortable playing the learning curve card this season and writing off the supbar performances of G, Cooter, Schenner, etc.
- Giroux_Is_God

no no. im not implying it was a train wreck. some people are drastically overreacting. however, he did not take the leap forward i expected, and i can see why some may question whether he is worth a contract that will likely be 8 plus a year

82 point pace isn't far off of that.
- MJL

no its not, but especially if he is going to have ups and downs defensively he needs more points. i realize i am probably being overcritical, but if giroux is going to be considered in this echelon, thats the scrutiny people will use. if crosby or malkin average a point per game, people want to check them for a pulse

Okay, I watched 40+ years of hockey.

The Kings currently have two Selke Level Players on their team in Richards and Kopitar. I also didn't discount the Selke voting as they've each finished in the top ten two out of the last three seasons.

no its not, but especially if he is going to have ups and downs defensively he needs more points. i realize i am probably being overcritical, but if giroux is going to be considered in this echelon, thats the scrutiny people will use. if crosby or malkin average a point per game, people want to check them for a pulse
- stayinthefnnet

I hear you. I think Giroux is a very good player. But I don't think he's in the class of Malkin and Crosby. But not many are.

Okay, I watched 40+ years of hockey.

The Kings currently have two Selke Level Players on their team in Richards and Kopitar. I also didn't discount the Selke voting as they've each finished in the top ten two out of the last three seasons.
- mayorofangrytown

I would disagree with that. Neither player is in the class of Bergeron, or Toews defensively, as a Forward. They're very solid. But not in that upper echelon. In order to win the Selke, you have to be at that level. Maybe in the future.

This is like the Matthew Barry thing.

Some people imo are just around to generate hits.

Best to just ignore.

A top defensive Forward in the League.
- MJL

best defense is a good offense so ovechkin?

I would disagree with that. Neither player is in the class of Bergeron, or Toews defensively, as a Forward. They're very solid. But not in that upper echelon. In order to win the Selke, you have to be at that level. Maybe in the future.
- MJL

you'd disagree with him watching 40 years of hockey
geez what does man have to do these days

I hear you. I think Giroux is a very good player. But I don't think he's in the class of Malkin and Crosby. But not many are.
- MJL

fair enough. although i believe he is going to be paid fairly comparable to crosby in the near future.

I would disagree with that. Neither player is in the class of Bergeron, Datsyuk, or Toews defensively, as a Forward. They're very solid. But not in that upper echelon. In order to win the Selke, you have to be at that level. Maybe in the future.
- MJL

I knew you would.

you'd disagree with him watching 40 years of hockey
geez what does man have to do these days
- 2Real

*throws chair*

- Flyskippy

I would disagree with that. Neither player is in the class of Bergeron, or Toews defensively, as a Forward. They're very solid. But not in that upper echelon. In order to win the Selke, you have to be at that level. Maybe in the future.
- MJL

i would agree that they arent individually on the level of those two. very very few are. however, id argue that for the kings they dont have to be. they are both highly above average, and they are complimented by other above average guys such as brown who are committed to playing a defensively responsible game. not saying quick doesnt have anything to do with it, but the way people play in front of him as a cohesive and committed unit sure helps

i would agree that they arent individually on the level of those two. very very few are. however, id argue that for the kings they dont have to be. they are both highly above average, and they are complimented by other above average guys such as brown who are committed to playing a defensively responsible game. not saying quick doesnt have anything to do with it, but the way people play in front of him as a cohesive and committed unit sure helps
- stayinthefnnet

The entire Kings team is loaded with defensively responsible forwards. Right down to their grinders. That team defense, breakout game, and top goaltending makes them tough to beat.

The entire Kings team is loaded with defensively responsible forwards. Right down to their grinders. That team defense, breakout game, and top goaltending makes them tough to beat.
- MJL

definitely. kopitar is one of my favorite non pens. always respected richards too, much easier to like now that he isnt on the flyers admittedly. if the pens and kings made it to the finals, it would be a very interesting series.

Let's all learn & try to respect others opinions......If you can not then don't reply to that person or at all.

definitely. kopitar is one of my favorite non pens. always respected richards too, much easier to like now that he isnt on the flyers admittedly. if the pens and kings made it to the finals, it would be a very interesting series.
- stayinthefnnet

I wish the Kings games were on earlier. Always fall asleep!

*throws chair*
- Crimsoninja

I"M MAD

Let's all learn & try to respect others opinions......If you can not then don't reply to that person or at all.
- ob18

this board is a downright center of enlightenment compared to what the pens and sens boards have devolved into