I think Mr Bickell is going to be paid big money.
- Marc D

9 goals in 48 regular season games, 6 so far in the playoffs. In what 14 games so far for ChiTown

It's not a growing trend. It's been a key to the game for a long time. Anyone who thinks that the Flyers defense moves the puck well enough, has to question that opinion watching both of these teams play.
- MJL

Not sure who thinks that, but some have mischaracterized the Flyers D as immobile and unable to move the puck. The reality is that guys like Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Schenn, Gustafsson and Gervais are quite capable of moving the puck by making good passes or even skating the puck out of the zone.

Here are some examples showing these players making good, solid puck-moving plays...and these were not cherry-picked from a bunch of different games. They were taken from only ONE game:

Here's Bruno Gervais grabbing the puck from behind the net and swiftly skating it out of the zone and deke-ing a guy before making a nice lead pass to Couturier who takes it in and sets up a good scoring chance by Knuble:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osx2qNQz834


Gervais clears up off of Simmer and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REZcmLVU-KA


Coburn joins the rush, gains the zone, setting up a nice scoring play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6s-FOiw1I


Gervais gets to the loose puck off a Penguin shot behind the net and makes a nice pass up to Read to start the break, Gusty joins the play, Schenn gets a shot off from the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yS_4c7uCdw


Gusty up to Read (PK):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oxdfyv6qtA


More Gusty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huNk1VbEtz4


Off a D zone faceoff, Schenn takes the body, gets to a loose puck and makes a nice backhand pass up to Read to start the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AY6qmvPsQU


Schenn nails Dupuis into his own bench boards, then gets back in time to cover his man in the slot where he collects a Pens shot then skates up and delivers a crisp outlet pass to Couturier to start the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw41IoIIzRw


Grossman wins a battle along the D sideboards and gets the puck to Couturier who gets it to Talbot and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLdz8_G60Y


Schenn gathers the puck along the D zone boards, passes onto the tape of Timonen who passes back to Schenn who skates the puck up makes a nice lead pass onto the tape of Couturier who enters the O zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5F6-eUjd2o


Timonen from behind the net, up to Schenn who skates a bit before making a slick lead pass up the ice to Voracek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bayVnf675c


Coby and Grossman pass to shake off pressure from Crysby before moving the puck up to Coots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XLAdz9x_lE


This is a nice sequence for Grossman and Coby. Coby fights for a puck aong the defensive boards, Grossman comes in, gets the puck and curls around the slot before hitting G with a sweet pass that sends him off on the rush. They gain the zone and get to work, Grossman makes a nice pinch to keep it in along the far boards (25 sec of the vid). The guys set up and apply more pressure, with the Coburn moving the puck from the umbrella...the Pens get it out but Coburn skates back and makes a cross ice pass to Timonen who deftly enters back into the offensive zone, Lots of solid puck moving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXTsXZE_CYA



Coby fights off Crosby to gain control in the defensive zone, makes a cross ice pass to Grossman who makes a nice pass up to Fedotenko to send him off into the offensive zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSEkqawEueA

Schenn pummels Kunitz along the D boards, freeing the puck over to Gervais who gets it to Talbot and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VypINJgykl0


Gusty transitions quickly up to ZolnerczykzzzzkzkYYZ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBL47zem30Q


Cootz passes back to Coby who moves the puck into the zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THsCoINJuek


Grossman clears the zone for a line change, then moves the puck to Briere who loses it, then Grossman makes a great defensive play deflecting the dangerous pass from Neal to Malkin in the low slot up to B Schenn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvSK2rUcQ78

Coburn gets the puck back to him off the center ice faceoff, moves the puck up swiftly to Voracek who shoots in, the Flyers get posession deep, Coburn pinches into the slot and gets a good shot and Voracek puts in the rebound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWq1dIAlyLk


Grossman clears from deep in the D zone, setting up posession deep in the Pens: zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTw9FfkGVeA



Gusty and Coby move the puck nicely on the pp break-out. Coby gets a nice shot from the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtSEwy2SxNU


Schenn fights off a forechecker and gets the puck to Grossman behind, who bangs it up the boards and out...the Pens re-enter, Grossman and Gervais work against the forecheck to clear from deep in the zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlx3NsaxxOQ


Gusty goes D to D behind the net to Gervais, who moves the puck up out of the zone to the forwards, which sets up an eventual goal by Simmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM2KkIPzOPY


In this impressive sequence, Gusty makes no less than six puck moving plays in a little over a minute (too bad the rest of the team wasted it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt1uCF2C7qc


Grossman takes the puck off the faceoff win and moves it behind the net which he uses to pick the forechecker, he then skates it out with the puck confidently before making a solid lead pass to Giroux to key the breakout. Later in the sequence he helps out deep to keep the cycle going:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXyA_DWh5KM

Gusty uses a strong stick to force the puck off Sutter in the D zone. Gusty then skates up and goes d to d for Gervias who skates it up and out of th zone before depositing into the Pens zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdjyveXw9Mc


So, you can clearly see that the Flyers defensive starters have the ability to move the puck efficiently and effectively out of the defensive zone.

In my opinion, the problem lays more in that the forwards don't support the D or the puck nearly enough, which limits the effectiveness and cohesion of the transition game and detracts from team-defense. That is what is reinforced to me, when I watch some of the better teams play. Having said that, I believe the Flyers could use an established top 4, offensively gifted defenseman or two to complement the mix, which is light on offensive production (beyond Timonen, who is gone soon)...they could use a dynamic guy who can help carry the puck in transition, join the play and set up at the points for good shots at ES and to shoot from the point and/or QB the PP. With Timonen on his last legs here, this need will become an imperative sooner than later.

I blame the coach more than anyone for how this season worked out. I know he didn't get the defensemen he wanted or didn't get the pieces he needed to run his system...but he didn't adapt to fit his system to his team.

We saw the mini-run late in the year, after the injuries, when the system was simplified and the forwards were given more responsibility in their own end. In addition to winning more games, and playing better defense, the offense was improved, too.
- Jsaquella

A possible silver lining? The coach learned a lesson...

Are YouTube videos facts?

Are YouTube videos facts?
- GirouxForTheShow

Are YouTube videos facts?
- GirouxForTheShow

No, but what is a fact is that the Flyers defense is severely lacking in the puck movement department. Making routine plays that most AHL defenseman can make, such as a simple pass up the boards to an open Winger, is not what the issue is. The overwhelming majority of NHL defenseman can make the simple routine plays.
All you have to do is watch the top teams like Chicago play, and the difference is night and day.
They desperately need to add some more puck skills to the back end if they hope to be a top team. This current Flyers would would get throttled playing against the likes of top pressure teams like Chicago and LA and the pressure they bring.

Not sure who thinks that, but some have mischaracterized the Flyers D as immobile and unable to move the puck. The reality is that guys like Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Schenn, Gustafsson and Gervais are quite capable of moving the puck by making good passes or even skating the puck out of the zone.

YouTubeage

So, you can clearly see that the Flyers defensive starters have the ability to move the puck efficiently and effectively out of the defensive zone.

In my opinion, the problem lays more in that the forwards don't support the D or the puck nearly enough, which limits the effectiveness and cohesion of the transition game and detracts from team-defense. That is what is reinforced to me, when I watch some of the better teams play. Having said that, I believe the Flyers could use an established top 4, offensively gifted defenseman or two to complement the mix, which is light on offensive production (beyond Timonen, who is gone soon)...they could use a dynamic guy who can help carry the puck in transition, join the play and set up at the points for good shots at ES and to shoot from the point and/or QB the PP. With Timonen on his last legs here, this need will become an imperative sooner than later.
- exlund

I think it's both. The defensemen are capable of making passes out of the zone, but too often the system dictated they make more than routine passes(not that a routine pass can't be well executed or somewhat difficult) and the gapping between the forwards & defense provides plenty of opportunity for turnovers and odd man rushes.

The system employed, especially for the short 2013 season, was not conducive to the abilities of the roster.

That said, I do feel they need at least one addition who is mobile and who has good puck skills.

No, but what is a fact is that the Flyers defense is severely lacking in the puck movement department. Making routine plays that most AHL defenseman can make, such as a simple pass up the boards to an open Winger, is not what the issue is. The overwhelming majority of NHL defenseman can make the simple routine plays.
All you have to do is watch the top teams like Chicago play, and the difference is night and day.
They desperately need to add some more puck skills to the back end if they hope to be a top team. This current Flyers would would get throttled playing against the likes of top pressure teams like Chicago and LA and the pressure they bring.
- MJL

all the you tubeage in the world can NOT disprove this. the need is obvious.

I think it's both. The defensemen are capable of making passes out of the zone, but too often the system dictated they make more than routine passes(not that a routine pass can't be well executed or somewhat difficult) and the gapping between the forwards & defense provides plenty of opportunity for turnovers and odd man rushes.

The system employed, especially for the short 2013 season, was not conducive to the abilities of the roster.

That said, I do feel they need at least one addition who is mobile and who has good puck skills.
- Jsaquella

It's the same theory as when Bill posted about Oliver Lauridsen and his big shot and how that translates to the NHL. It takes him too long to get the shot off. The NHL is a speed game. It's how fast you move the puck, and how quickly. The difference of a stride in today's game is the difference between a top scoring chance, and just another routine dump in. Or catching a team in an odd man break. Flyers defenseman are capable of making a routine pass, or skating the puck up and dumping it in. Doesn't win in today's game. No doubt the Flyers as a whole need to get better, and the Forwards have to do a better job. But the difference that a top puck mover or two makes, who are on the ice for well over 20+ minutes a game, is astronomical.

No, but what is a fact is that the Flyers defense is severely lacking in the puck movement department. Making routine plays that most AHL defenseman can make, such as a simple pass up the boards to an open Winger, is not what the issue is. The overwhelming majority of NHL defenseman can make the simple routine plays.
All you have to do is watch the top teams like Chicago play, and the difference is night and day.
They desperately need to add some more puck skills to the back end if they hope to be a top team. This current Flyers would would get throttled playing against the likes of top pressure teams like Chicago and LA and the pressure they bring.
- MJL

Videos are factual depictions. Not sure what you're saying. Anyway, the Hawks D make good solid first passes for the most part, which isn't materially different than was was seen by the Flyers in the vids I posted. Can you tell me specifically what they are doing that the Flyers cannot?

The major difference imo is their forwards are always there to support, game in and game out...backchecking to win pucks and being there to take the puck from the D and take off in transition. Sure, they (the Hawks D) are, as a group, better and more mobile and able to carry the puck and produce points more consistently...their mix of players is more skewed toward that kind of game, having more offensive oriented players who can join the play and blast from the point (ES and PP) and produce...I am in agreement that Flyers need one or two of those types, especially by the time Timo is done. But the current Flyers D don't have a particular problem with mobility or moving the puck....by no means do they "severely lack" this ability, as the video clips from just one game clearly show. I've provided proof. Can you show me examples of the Flyers severe lack of puck moving?

I think it's both. The defensemen are capable of making passes out of the zone, but too often the system dictated they make more than routine passes(not that a routine pass can't be well executed or somewhat difficult) and the gapping between the forwards & defense provides plenty of opportunity for turnovers and odd man rushes.

The system employed, especially for the short 2013 season, was not conducive to the abilities of the roster.

That said, I do feel they need at least one addition who is mobile and who has good puck skills.
- Jsaquella

That gap between the forwards and D is a manifestation of this lack of proper puck support from the forwards, which is in line with my thoughts on the matter. The vids I posted depict many examples of when the forwards did come back, the D made good passes and good transition plays were the result...in point of fact, the Flyers came back and beat Pittsburgh that game, in part due to those kinds of plays. The issue is doing that on a more consistent basis.

all the you tubeage in the world can NOT disprove this. the need is obvious.
- isaiah520

The need is obvious for point producing offensive-defensemen who can carry the puck up ice in transition, shoot from the point and QB the PP. That goes far beyond simply moving the puck out of the zone, which the current players can do adequately.

It's the same theory as when Bill posted about Oliver Lauridsen and his big shot and how that translates to the NHL. It takes him too long to get the shot off. The NHL is a speed game. It's how fast you move the puck, and how quickly. The difference of a stride in today's game is the difference between a top scoring chance, and just another routine dump in. Or catching a team in an odd man break. Flyers defenseman are capable of making a routine pass, or skating the puck up and dumping it in. Doesn't win in today's game. No doubt the Flyers as a whole need to get better, and the Forwards have to do a better job. But the difference that a top puck mover or two makes, who are on the ice for well over 20+ minutes a game, is astronomical.
- MJL

So now it's the speed of the puck as it's being moved out of the zone? I don't see a material difference in the speed at which the Flyers D men pass the puck versus other teams. Now, it might be that the forwards of the Flyers aren't getting open, requiring the D to hold onto the puck longer in some cases...I can buy that. The vids I posted showed the Flyers D making quick, effective first passes against one of the top teams in the NHL...some of them resulted in scoring chances and goals. These efforts don't count?

I don't think we're that far off on our views. We both agree that the Flyers can use one or two puck moving, dynamic offensive-defenseman with puck skills...I just take issue with the notion of the current Flyers D being immobile and/or "severely lacking" the ability to move the puck...there's a distinction between those two notions, and they aren't mutually exclusive (believing the Flyers need an offensive defenseman/PP QB type while also believing their current D men can move the puck out of the defensive zone adequately).