I'm on board with Edler, but I understand the concern that his numbers are skewed because of the way he was utilized.

Vigneault is a line-matching whore. He's the best at getting the best out of each and every player. The fact that there were better defensive players (Bieksa/Hamhuis) getting more d-zone starts are more of a reflection of the Canucks roster than Edler in particular, IMO.

I believe he can be the 25 min., two-way horse that this team needs.
- bradleyc4

I don't think he's a 2-way horse. I consider him to be a better (possibly much better) version of Matt Carle. He'll move the puck well, has a nice shot, good skater, but his defensive game does have some questions. He's on that next step down from the guys like Pietrangelo. And to me, everyone in the NHL is one step down from Shea "Sired by Odin" Weber. Still bummed about that...

Whose everyone's liking in this draft?

Personally? I watch just as much CHL/European/USHL hockey as I do the NHL/AHL

If its a forward? Hunter Skinkaruk or Bo Horvat. Dman? Mirco Mueller and Robert Hagg. Hagg is my favorite of the four.
- mochoson

If it's me, I draft Shinkaruk. Then I roll:

McGinn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Shinkaruk
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Talbot-Laughton-Rinaldo

I'd do that for first 15-20 games. I just think that you have to double down on Brayden Schenn -- you have to give him a sniper on his RW, just to see what you have. Whether it's Shinkaruk or Petr Straka or a free agent or somebody who gets bought out...I just don't think you can let Brayden Schenn be a 12-14 minute center with two grinders on his wing.

Daniel Briere, for all the good he did as a Flyer, simply wasn't a good player last year. I think Schenn needs the opportunity to play with a youthful winger who can flat-out score, just so you know if he can play or not.

Those who pay attention to the metrics know that last year, McGinn-Schenn-Voracek...man. That line was awesome. If I thought Jake Voracek wouldn't have a meltdown if he wasn't 1RW, I'd put that line together in a split-second.

There's a very simple, easy way. It starts off with Lavy calling the team that has the desired player and starting the call with, "We'll trade you Giroux..."
That's about the only way.
- jmatchett383

Or something along those lines. So what's the next option, is what I'm looking at.

Or something along those lines. So what's the next option, is what I'm looking at.
- MJL

"We have seventeen consecutive 1st rounders in exchange for..."

followed by

"We'll willing to offer Matt Read, Braydon Schenn, Sean Couturier, Jake Voracek, and Wayne Simmonds..."

Now, if those are not favorable conditions for acquiring one player, then only option left is to acquire the 1A/2 type defenseman, like Edler, Yandle, etc.

I'm on board with Edler, but I understand the concern that his numbers are skewed because of the way he was utilized.

Vigneault is a line-matching whore. He's the best at getting the most out of each and every player. The fact that there were better defensive players (Bieksa/Hamhuis) getting more d-zone starts are more of a reflection of the Canucks roster than Edler in particular, IMO.

I believe he can be the 25 min., two-way horse that this team needs.
- bradleyc4

I agree. There are no illusions that you're getting Chara or Weber. Or even Timonen in his prime. But what you're getting is what this team desperately needs. And the Flyers can do the same thing. Defensive players such as Coburn and Grossmann can get the tougher defensive starts. And everyone will be better for it. So now they just need to figure out how to get more offensive starts, and less defensive starts. And how do you do that? Part of it is getting a 25 minute a night puck moving defenseman who can control the puck and the flow of the game.

I don't think he's a 2-way horse. I consider him to be a better (possibly much better) version of Matt Carle. He'll move the puck well, has a nice shot, good skater, but his defensive game does have some questions. He's on that next step down from the guys like Pietrangelo. And to me, everyone in the NHL is one step down from Shea "Sired by Odin" Weber. Still bummed about that...
- jmatchett383

He is a 2 way player, that can and does play in all situations.

If it's me, I draft Shinkaruk. Then I roll:

McGinn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Shinkaruk
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Talbot-Laughton-Rinaldo

I'd do that for first 15-20 games. I just think that you have to double down on Brayden Schenn -- you have to give him a sniper on his RW, just to see what you have. Whether it's Shinkaruk or Petr Straka or a free agent or somebody who gets bought out...I just don't think you can let Brayden Schenn be a 12-14 minute center with two grinders on his wing.

Daniel Briere, for all the good he did as a Flyer, simply wasn't a good player last year. I think Schenn needs the opportunity to play with a youthful winger who can flat-out score, just so you know if he can play or not.

Those who pay attention to the metrics know that last year, McGinn-Schenn-Voracek...man. That line was awesome. If I thought Jake Voracek wouldn't have a meltdown if he wasn't 1RW, I'd put that line together in a split-second.
- AllInForFlyers

I'm not an advanced stats person, but that was the best Schenn looked as a Flyer, when he was paired with Voracek.

To me that says how valuable Jake V is, and also something about Schenn's potential still being untapped.

He is a 2 way player, that can and does play in all situations.
- MJL

He does play in all situations, but much more on the PP (3:34 PP TOI/G, 1:59 SH TOI/G). Not saying he's BAD, but he's not known as a fantastic defensive player either, his skillset is geared more towards offensive transition.

He does play in all situations, but much more on the PP (3:34 PP TOI/G, 1:59 SH TOI/G). Not saying he's BAD, but he's not known as a fantastic defensive player either, his skillset is geared more towards offensive transition.
- jmatchett383

And his PK time went up in the playoffs. I agree, that his skill package lends itself towards the transition game. But he also brings a physical aspect to the ice, as well as solid shot blocking. He is not a player that is a liability in his own end. He is more them capable.

the Chicago fans are almost as bipolar as we Flyer fans

when it was 1-3 against Detroit the were ready to blow it up, including trading Seabrooke, Bolland, Oduya, get more grit, need a PP quarterback etc

now its looking like 2010 again

they held serve at home and are looking strong, but

LA is 7-0 at home so far

if it goes to 2-2 I wonder if they will be back to blowing it up again

Not to go wayyy off topic, but if you dont watch Game of Thrones... you are seriously missing out.
- jak521

i am still shocked, they keep killing off the good guys...after the ambush my wife and i's mouths both drooped to the floor, the way they built it up with robs mom figuring it out was spectacular.

If it's me, I draft Shinkaruk. Then I roll:

McGinn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Shinkaruk
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Talbot-Laughton-Rinaldo

I'd do that for first 15-20 games. I just think that you have to double down on Brayden Schenn -- you have to give him a sniper on his RW, just to see what you have. Whether it's Shinkaruk or Petr Straka or a free agent or somebody who gets bought out...I just don't think you can let Brayden Schenn be a 12-14 minute center with two grinders on his wing.

Daniel Briere, for all the good he did as a Flyer, simply wasn't a good player last year. I think Schenn needs the opportunity to play with a youthful winger who can flat-out score, just so you know if he can play or not.

Those who pay attention to the metrics know that last year, McGinn-Schenn-Voracek...man. That line was awesome. If I thought Jake Voracek wouldn't have a meltdown if he wasn't 1RW, I'd put that line together in a split-second.
- AllInForFlyers

I'm not convinced that McGinn can be a consistent top 6 player. I like him a lot but I don't see him being a perennial 20+ goal scorer.

OK did you read the book before seeing last night's episode?

I want to know how people who had NOT read the book felt about last night
- Marc D

i read the books till the dwarf married sensa and stopped,it has been more exciting to me since i dont know what happens, but i have a feelingthat i will start the 4th book after this season...i still cannot figure out wtf lovejoy isbng heldand who the dude is effn with him.

And his PK time went up in the playoffs. I agree, that his skill package lends itself towards the transition game. But he also brings a physical aspect to the ice, as well as solid shot blocking. He is not a player that is a liability in his own end. He is more them capable.
- MJL

And the amount of PK/G for the Vancouver Canucks skyrocketed in the playoffs from 3.5 to 6, so it went up as a result (it's actually prettymuch linear), much like his defensive partner as well as Vacouver's top 2 PK defensemen.

I'm not saying he's bad, again, just that he has some defensive questions (compared to top defensive players). And I'm okay with that.

People on my Twitter feed that had not read the books (including jak) were freaking out.
- NickTheKid87

please tell me that someone was dreaming the ambush

I'm not convinced that McGinn can be a consistent top 6 player. I like him a lot but I don't see him being a perennial 20+ goal scorer.
- NickTheKid87

Yeah, I see him more as a bottom 6 player. He could prove me wrong, but I'd rather see Hartnell/Read/Simmonds on the top line.

i am still shocked, they keep killing off the good guys...after the ambush my wife and i's mouths both drooped to the floor, the way they built it up with robs mom figuring it out was spectacular.
- mydoglicks

I think George R. R. Martin's idea was to blur the line between good and evil. Is Robb Stark really a good guy? I'd go as far as to say that Joffrey is really the only "king" that falls into the good or evil category (evil obviously but for his personality). All have legitimate reasons for their actions and perception is key. I've read the books and you'll soon see that that good/evil line gets even more blurred.

Think about it. Joffrey should be king based on the fact that no one really knows that his father isn't Robert Baratheon. Stannis should be the king technically. Renly had no true claim and Robb was bascially pressured into fighting for his father's vengence, even though Eddard Stark sort of did commit treason in the eyes of the law.

Edit: And the Targaryens got beat so Dany isn't truly the "rightful heir" anymore.

I'm not an advanced stats person, but that was the best Schenn looked as a Flyer, when he was paired with Voracek.

To me that says how valuable Jake V is, and also something about Schenn's potential still being untapped.
- Marc D

Personally? I think Schenn can play. But not as a winger. He's a funky kind of center, the kind you don't see anymore. He goes to the net and makes these cute little passes to his wingers if he has the puck, or if the winger has the puck like Voracek would when he would go wide, Schenn has this funky little ability to cut across the slot or head to either post and generate some nasty little scoring chances.

He'll also separate you from the puck on the wall or behind the net, and his backhand passes into the slot are filthy.

Don't laugh. Please. Try not to laugh. But he reminds me of a young Peter Forsberg when Milan Hejduk came up with Colorado. He's a funky little player like Forsberg was.

Don't get me wrong: I don't think Schenn has that kind of hockey sense. He's not Peter Forsberg.

But he plays like that, and I just honestly believe if you give that kid a "European-style" winger or a pure scorer...I truly believe that kid could produce at a Top 6 level.

I think George R. R. Martin's idea was to blur the line between good and evil. Is Robb Stark really a good guy? I'd go as far as to say that Joffrey is really the only "king" that falls into the good or evil category (evil obviously but for his personality). All have legitimate reasons for their actions and perception is key. I've read the books and you'll soon see that that good/evil line gets even more blurred.

Think about it. Joffrey should be king based on the fact that no one really knows that his father isn't Robert Baratheon. Stannis should be the king technically. Renly had no true claim and Robb was bascially pressured into fighting for his father's vengence, even though Eddard Stark sort of did commit treason in the eyes of the law.

Edit: And the Targaryens got beat so Dany isn't truly the "rightful heir" anymore.
- NickTheKid87

It's all Sansa's fault for lying.

I think George R. R. Martin's idea was to blur the line between good and evil. Is Robb Stark really a good guy? I'd go as far as to say that Joffrey is really the only "king" that falls into the good or evil category (evil obviously but for his personality). All have legitimate reasons for their actions and perception is key. I've read the books and you'll soon see that that good/evil line gets even more blurred.

Think about it. Joffrey should be king based on the fact that no one really knows that his father isn't Robert Baratheon. Stannis should be the king technically. Renly had no true claim and Robb was bascially pressured into fighting for his father's vengence, even though Eddard Stark sort of did commit treason in the eyes of the law.

Edit: And the Targaryens got beat so Dany isn't truly the "rightful heir" anymore.
- NickTheKid87

The Boltons and Freys suck, I think they are pure evil.

Personally? I think Schenn can play. But not as a winger. He's a funky kind of center, the kind you don't see anymore. He goes to the net and makes these cute little passes to his wingers if he has the puck, or if the winger has the puck like Voracek would when he would go wide, Schenn has this funky little ability to cut across the slot or head to either post and generate some nasty little scoring chances.

He'll also separate you from the puck on the wall or behind the net, and his backhand passes into the slot are filthy.

Don't laugh. Please. Try not to laugh. But he reminds me of a young Peter Forsberg when Milan Hejduk came up with Colorado. He's a funky little player like Forsberg was.

Don't get me wrong: I don't think Schenn has that kind of hockey sense. He's not Peter Forsberg.

But he plays like that, and I just honestly believe if you give that kid a "European-style" winger or a pure scorer...I truly believe that kid could produce at a Top 6 level.
- AllInForFlyers

My worry about B Schenn is he will be injury prone, the way he plays.
I love how he hits, but I can see him breaking down.

He is only 21 and his best years are still ahead. He did have a ton of hype to live up to, so there will be folks who will always want more.

I hope they hold onto him.

My worry about B Schenn is he will be injury prone, the way he plays.
I love how he hits, but I can see him breaking down.

He is only 21 and his best years are still ahead. He did have a ton of hype to live up to, so there will be folks who will always want more.

I hope they hold onto him.
- Marc D

Do you not feel that way about Giroux?

Yeah, I see him more as a bottom 6 player. He could prove me wrong, but I'd rather see Hartnell/Read/Simmonds on the top line.
- jmatchett383

The problem with Simmonds is his puckhandling -- he doesn't handle it well enough on zone entries, which means that he has to "chip-and-chase" too often or would lost it altogether. It's painful watching him do that with Giroux as his center, because by definition, you will have the puck less than if you carry it in.

That's why Jake Voracek is so valuable -- I don't know if anyone has broken down his "zone entries with the puck" from last year, but at first glace, I'd wager that it's one of the highest at the RW position in the league. That's what makes Jaromir Jagr effective, even at his age -- he would enter the zone with the puck and make a play with it.

I don't think Tye McGinn is a 20-goal scorer, either. He's the guy who should be going to get the puck out of the corners and doing the bulk of the grunt work on the walls. I advocate Hartnell with Schenn and another scorer because I think it would be nice for Schenn to have a veteran linemate and because Hartnell has proven that he can play with different types of players.

But I absolutely realize that McGinn likely isn't a 20-goal scorer.

The Boltons and Freys suck, I think they are pure evil.
- Marc D

The Freys were screwed over when Robb married that Bravosi girl or where ever she was from (different character in the book). They were essentially enemies of the Starks at that point.

The Boltons are just sort of looking out for their best interested. Can't really fault them for that.

Personally? I think Schenn can play. But not as a winger. He's a funky kind of center, the kind you don't see anymore. He goes to the net and makes these cute little passes to his wingers if he has the puck, or if the winger has the puck like Voracek would when he would go wide, Schenn has this funky little ability to cut across the slot or head to either post and generate some nasty little scoring chances.

He'll also separate you from the puck on the wall or behind the net, and his backhand passes into the slot are filthy.

Don't laugh. Please. Try not to laugh. But he reminds me of a young Peter Forsberg when Milan Hejduk came up with Colorado. He's a funky little player like Forsberg was.

Don't get me wrong: I don't think Schenn has that kind of hockey sense. He's not Peter Forsberg.

But he plays like that, and I just honestly believe if you give that kid a "European-style" winger or a pure scorer...I truly believe that kid could produce at a Top 6 level.
- AllInForFlyers

Brayden Schenn has a weird skill set, in that it's obvious he possesses talent as a hockey player, but I'm not sure what his identity is as a hockey player.

I hope he's here when he finally comes into his own, but I do wonder how long that's going to take.