I think George R. R. Martin's idea was to blur the line between good and evil. Is Robb Stark really a good guy? I'd go as far as to say that Joffrey is really the only "king" that falls into the good or evil category (evil obviously but for his personality). All have legitimate reasons for their actions and perception is key. I've read the books and you'll soon see that that good/evil line gets even more blurred.

Think about it. Joffrey should be king based on the fact that no one really knows that his father isn't Robert Baratheon. Stannis should be the king technically. Renly had no true claim and Robb was bascially pressured into fighting for his father's vengence, even though Eddard Stark sort of did commit treason in the eyes of the law.

Edit: And the Targaryens got beat so Dany isn't truly the "rightful heir" anymore.
- NickTheKid87

good points and evaluation, i guess i was rooting for rob after ned was murdered,i thought he was a decent honest guy looking for the truth...he knew joffrey was not roberts son didnt he? why not tell everyone

The problem with Simmonds is his puckhandling -- he doesn't handle it well enough on zone entries, which means that he has to "chip-and-chase" too often or would lost it altogether. It's painful watching him do that with Giroux as his center, because by definition, you will have the puck less than if you carry it in.

That's why Jake Voracek is so valuable -- I don't know if anyone has broken down his "zone entries with the puck" from last year, but at first glace, I'd wager that it's one of the highest at the RW position in the league. That's what makes Jaromir Jagr effective, even at his age -- he would enter the zone with the puck and make a play with it.

I don't think Tye McGinn is a 20-goal scorer, either. He's the guy who should be going to get the puck out of the corners and doing the bulk of the grunt work on the walls. I advocate Hartnell with Schenn and another scorer because I think it would be nice for Schenn to have a veteran linemate and because Hartnell has proven that he can play with different types of players.

But I absolutely realize that McGinn likely isn't a 20-goal scorer.
- AllInForFlyers

If that's the case, it makes the most sense to resign Gagne and put him on the top line as your LW, as he can still carry the puck. Also, he's bring some added 2-way play to that line.

And the amount of PK/G for the Vancouver Canucks skyrocketed in the playoffs from 3.5 to 6, so it went up as a result (it's actually prettymuch linear), much like his defensive partner as well as Vacouver's top 2 PK defensemen.

I'm not saying he's bad, again, just that he has some defensive questions (compared to top defensive players). And I'm okay with that.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find any of us who wouldn't want Edler if the trade was made in a vacuum, at a minimum of cost.

But just as people pointed out Bryz's questionable PO numbers and that his success might not carry over due the advantages he enjoyed in PHX in terms of systems/coaching, we're putting the spotlight on Edler's warts because we hope that the Flyers won't gloss over/dismiss any inconvenient truths if they are prepared to shell out top assets/top-$ expecting Edler to be a franchise savior.

If that's the case, it makes the most sense to resign Gagne and put him on the top line as your LW, as he can still carry the puck. Also, he's bring some added 2-way play to that line.
- jmatchett383

I'd have to swallow hard and tell myself repeatedly that Simon Gagne will play 65-plus games as a healthy player, but agreed, Gagne can still enter the zone with the puck at a Top 6 level and he still knows how to play two-way hockey.

good points and evaluation, i guess i was rooting for rob after ned was murdered,i thought he was a decent honest guy looking for the truth...he knew joffrey was not roberts son didnt he? why not tell everyone
- mydoglicks

spoilersbuzz?

Personally? I think Schenn can play. But not as a winger. He's a funky kind of center, the kind you don't see anymore. He goes to the net and makes these cute little passes to his wingers if he has the puck, or if the winger has the puck like Voracek would when he would go wide, Schenn has this funky little ability to cut across the slot or head to either post and generate some nasty little scoring chances.

He'll also separate you from the puck on the wall or behind the net, and his backhand passes into the slot are filthy.

Don't laugh. Please. Try not to laugh. But he reminds me of a young Peter Forsberg when Milan Hejduk came up with Colorado. He's a funky little player like Forsberg was.

Don't get me wrong: I don't think Schenn has that kind of hockey sense. He's not Peter Forsberg.

But he plays like that, and I just honestly believe if you give that kid a "European-style" winger or a pure scorer...I truly believe that kid could produce at a Top 6 level.
- AllInForFlyers

Agree with this assessment. Dont like Schenn on a line with two grinders. He can make some plays and can dig the puck out of a scrum.

Agree with this assessment. Dont like Schenn on a line with two grinders. He can make some plays and can dig the puck out of a scrum.
- edmac812

Kinda like pairing Giroux with Aaron Asham and a rookie?

And the amount of PK/G for the Vancouver Canucks skyrocketed in the playoffs from 3.5 to 6, so it went up as a result (it's actually prettymuch linear), much like his defensive partner as well as Vacouver's top 2 PK defensemen.

I'm not saying he's bad, again, just that he has some defensive questions (compared to top defensive players). And I'm okay with that.
- jmatchett383

As I said to a previous poster, not expecting him to be Chara or Weber. I think we're on the same page.

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find any of us who wouldn't want Edler if the trade was made in a vacuum, at a minimum of cost.

But just as people pointed out Bryz's questionable PO numbers and that his success might not carry over due the advantages he enjoyed in PHX in terms of systems/coaching, we're putting the spotlight on Edler's warts because we hope that the Flyers won't gloss over/dismiss any inconvenient truths if they are prepared to shell out top assets/top-$ expecting Edler to be a franchise savior.
- Tomahawk

The problem is that you're inventing the warts, and comparing him to Chara and Weber. And offering that he doesn't measure up to those players, so he has warts and isn't worth acquiring. And you're also making really poor comparisons and offering it as facts. As if the Bryzgalov situation is relevant. And completely dismissing the skill level and talent that Edler would bring to the Flyers blueline. And there isn't anyone who expects or has stated that edler is a franchise savior. He would just be one more peice added to the team, that brings an element that is needed to be successful.

Woot!

I feel really let down. I watched him in the WJCs and I thought he was at John Tavares level and I was obviously very wrong. I was incredibly excited when we traded for him and I have to admit that if this is what he's going to give us than the trade for Richards, even with Simmonds, is a bit of a disappointment.

I don't know if he's worth trading at this point, his value is down. I have a feeling it can only go up but that's just hopeful.
- mayorofangrytown

In 110 career games, he's scored 20 goals, with 26 assists for 46 points. Richards, in his first two seasons, had 138 games played, with 21 goals and 45 assists for 66 points.

The biggest difference is that Richards was a better two way player than Schenn at the same age. Not many guys peak at age 21, and Schenn definitely has potential to get better.

It requires patience.

Here's the thing, really -- I asked some of the hockey analytics guys at the Vancouver Sun about what I was looking at with the Flyers, and they told me straight up that the Flyers were absolutely not as bad as they looked when they were in 14th place in the conference.

They had injuries, horrific shooting percentages at 5v5, horrific save percentages at 5v5. Some of that was due to talent and poor play; they deserved to be where the were in some cases.

But the analytics guys said that, more likely than not, they were due for a hot streak if they simply played hard, because the percentages would correct themselves, and that while they would likely miss the playoffs, their metrics were that of a team that would finish ninth or 10th in the conference.

That's what they did. I tend to believe in the developing area of Corsi, possession time, etc., and in this case, it truly wasn't that the Flyers blew a draft pick by not tanking. It's that, all things being equal, they simply weren't awful enough to be as bad as Calgary, Florida, Buffalo, Carolina, NJ, etc.
- AllInForFlyers

Good lord man, you are WAY to rational for this site!!
All kidding aside, welcome aboard!!!

The problem is that you're inventing the warts, and comparing him to Chara and Weber. And you're also making really poor comparisons and offering it as facts. As if the Bryzgalov situation is relevant. And completely dismissing the skill level and talent that Edler would bring to the Flyers blueline.
- MJL

I guess it would be pretty fun for me to just invent some BS, but as you might have noticed, the guys on here who are suspicious of Edler have been careful to back up our posts with stats and links to Canucks-centric sources and outlets.

Bryz is relevant in that the last time we put all our eggs in one basket, the bottom of the basket fell out.

And for the last time... nobody's denying Edler's skill level... only that he has some question marks to his game.

In 110 career games, he's scored 20 goals, with 26 assists for 46 points. Richards, in his first two seasons, had 138 games played, with 21 goals and 45 assists for 66 points.

The biggest difference is that Richards was a better two way player than Schenn at the same age. Not many guys peak at age 21, and Schenn definitely has potential to get better.

It requires patience.
- Jsaquella

Schenn also has had a host of injuries and had a somewhat prolonged AHL stint his rookie year (not to mention his 8-game callup with the Kings) so I'd say his first 35 or so games are probably not very productive due to being in/out so much.

It requires patience.
- Jsaquella

That should be the Flyers' official motto for 2013-14.

That should be the Flyers' official motto for 2013-14.
- Tomahawk

Still better than "HUNGRY FOR MORE" and "WHY NOT US?"

K i know it isnt gonna happen so everyone calm your tits... just a fun question:

idk when Weber can become available. But say he can be available at the draft. What would the package be now that we could get him with? again, i know this isnt going to happen, just a fun question for poops and gigs

I think Couts+Read+Meszaros+11th could getter done this time around
and if its after the draft, then just trade the player we drafted

GID Holmer

I guess it would be pretty fun for me to just invent some BS, but as you might have noticed, the guys on here who are suspicious of Edler have been careful to back up our posts with stats and links to Canucks-centric sources and outlets.

Bryz is relevant in that the last time we put all our eggs in one basket, the bottom of the basket fell out.

And for the last time... nobody's denying Edler's skill level... only that he has some question marks to his game.
- Tomahawk

There hasn't been a single source that backs anything up offered. The last article you linked was pretty much a waste of ink. It offered nothing other then speculating how Edler would fair away from the Canucks and the Sedins. There was zero content there worth anything.
Bryzgalov isn't relevant, unless of course you're suggesting that the Flyers not acquire any players to try and improve the team, because it might not work out. Making trades or Free Agent signings has never been an exact science. And acquiring Edler isn't putting all of your eggs in one basket.
The overwhelming majority of players have question marks to their game. So you're against acquiring Edler because he's not a superstar player, with no weaknesses? As I said to you previously. Tell me what defenseman we can acquire that might be available, and for what, that has no question marks to their games. And I'm all ears.

K i know it isnt gonna happen so everyone calm your tits... just a fun question:

idk when Weber can become available. But say he can be available at the draft. What would the package be now that we could get him with? again, i know this isnt going to happen, just a fun question for poops and gigs

I think Couts+Read+Meszaros+11th could getter done this time around
and if its after the draft, then just trade the player we drafted

GID Holmer
- FLYERSROCK!

Short of something ridiculous, he's not going anywhere. I mean, REALLY ridiculous. As in a star player and a host of picks/prospects/young good roster players.

They just invested $26M in him for 48 games. He's not available.

Also, the package you named is probably worse than the one Nashville turned down last year before they had him locked up for 14 years. Replace Meszaros with a player not coming off a year full of injuries, add another 1st rounder or 2, throw in a few prospects, and now you're at least naming a good package.

K i know it isnt gonna happen so everyone calm your tits... just a fun question:

idk when Weber can become available. But say he can be available at the draft. What would the package be now that we could get him with? again, i know this isnt going to happen, just a fun question for poops and gigs

I think Couts+Read+Meszaros+11th could getter done this time around
and if its after the draft, then just trade the player we drafted

GID Holmer
- FLYERSROCK!

What we gave up for Pronger, plus Couts and/or B Schenn -- if Poile even picks up the phone when he sees Homer on caller-ID.

That should be the Flyers' official motto for 2013-14.
- Tomahawk

It's just that thinking that a guy is all he is ever going to be at age 21 is the kind of sense that led to trading Sharp, Williams and others over the years.

K i know it isnt gonna happen so everyone calm your tits... just a fun question:

idk when Weber can become available. But say he can be available at the draft. What would the package be now that we could get him with? again, i know this isnt going to happen, just a fun question for poops and gigs

I think Couts+Read+Meszaros+11th could getter done this time around
and if its after the draft, then just trade the player we drafted

GID Holmer
- FLYERSROCK!

Where was the fun part?

In 110 career games, he's scored 20 goals, with 26 assists for 46 points. Richards, in his first two seasons, had 138 games played, with 21 goals and 45 assists for 66 points.

The biggest difference is that Richards was a better two way player than Schenn at the same age. Not many guys peak at age 21, and Schenn definitely has potential to get better.

It requires patience.
- Jsaquella

I'm all for patience with him because I don't see his value in a trade.

If I was expecting Richards out of him I'd be less disappointed. He was the number one prospect in the NHL so I was expecting more than Cody Hodgson out of him. He hasn't really even begun to carve out a niche for himself. Injuries haven't helped.

My expectations were higher. I'm self aware enough to know that it's my problem and not Brayden Schenn's.

It's just that thinking that a guy is all he is ever going to be at age 21 is the kind of sense that led to trading Sharp, Williams and others over the years.
- Jsaquella

Matt "HOF" Ellison almost got us a...goal, once, maybe?

Short of something ridiculous, he's not going anywhere. I mean, REALLY ridiculous. As in a star player and a host of picks/prospects/young good roster players.

They just invested $26M in him for 48 games. He's not available.

Also, the package you named is probably worse than the one Nashville turned down last year before they had him locked up for 14 years. Replace Meszaros with a player not coming off a year full of injuries, add another 1st rounder or 2, throw in a few prospects, and now you're at least naming a good package.
- jmatchett383

was kinda hoping Nashville would lower the price due to his ridiculous contract
*shrug*

Short of something ridiculous, he's not going anywhere. I mean, REALLY ridiculous. As in a star player and a host of picks/prospects/young good roster players.

They just invested $26M in him for 48 games. He's not available.

Also, the package you named is probably worse than the one Nashville turned down last year before they had him locked up for 14 years. Replace Meszaros with a player not coming off a year full of injuries, add another 1st rounder or 2, throw in a few prospects, and now you're at least naming a good package.
- jmatchett383

was kinda hoping Nashville would lower the price due to his ridiculous contract
*shrug*