I'd think long and hard about that, if Columbus offered it. Really hard to turn that return down, and I don't feel they are that far away from contending.
- Jsaquella

Was thinking if we have to give up a boatload to get a desired player( many names mentioned) maybe better to trade maybe a hartnell/ coburn/mez who aren't really part of the young core in a few years. But under this scenario we can't miss on this draft class. Gonna need 2 or 3 players to make impact in the next 3 years. And under this scenario we don't lose schenn coots read simmonds g [/img]

I guess here is my issue. We say that we can draft a forward and trade that asset for a top caliber defenseman, except a) no one here wants to trade the assets most likely to land that defenseman (Coots, B Schenn), and b) teams that have young defenseman that are not without risk are not trading them, so you are likely getting someone that a team is down on. And even then, you are giving up a lot.

I like the three dmen you just proposed. But playing devil's advocate,

1. Hartnell is on the wrong side of 30 which for a power forward would likely make a team nervous, so likely only a team that is very close in contention with excess young D would bite on him.

2. I really like Read, but the reality is that he was undrafted (likely to affect perception) and 1 year from UFA. This will hurt him.

3. Simmonds might have most trade potential but is still likely a secondary asset (he was in Richards trade).

To me, the most viable strategy is to draft dman this year, scoring forward or another d next year and then supplement with veterans 2-3 years out.

(Obviously plug roster until then).
- TheGreat28

I'll use Bill's example. In 2006, the Flyers organizational needs at defense were similar to what they are now. They took Giroux at number 22. The next 5 defensemen selected have played a combined 69 NHL games(Denis Persson, Ivan Vishneivskiy, Chris Summers, Matt Corrente & Carl Sneep).

The Flyers can't afford to make that kind of mistake picking at 11.

Was thinking if we have to give up a boatload to get a desired player( many names mentioned) maybe better to trade maybe a hartnell/ coburn/mez who aren't really part of the young core in a few years. But under this scenario we can't miss on this draft class. Gonna need 2 or 3 players to make impact in the next 3 years. And under this scenario we don't lose schenn coots read simmonds g
- SMS4016[/img]

I wouldn't trade Coburn. First off, he's not that old, at 28 years of age, he should have a lot of years left in him.

I doubt Meszaros has any value. Sizeable cap hit, bad injury history in recent seasons...maybe worth a 3rd rounder if somebody really thinks he can rebound.

Hartnell is over 30 now, so the age question is relevant in his case. I'd probably be willing to move him for a first rounder. That said, not sold that there'd be an offer of one.

Does that really mean he played roughly 60% of his total 767 minutes without the Sedins? Again, assuming I read the numbers correctly, it does look like his numbers are better when he plays with the Sedins (as I think anyone would expect), but it certainly doesn't seem like he plays with them all the time.
- BringBack25

You're right.

The thing to keep in mind is that unless a team is using 5-man units at ES, the D won't always synch up with forwards. Also, D get more shifts than forwards, so they'll obviously spend time with a variety of forward lines.

With that said, Edler actually spent more time at ES with the Sedin line than he did with his main d-partner (Bieksa), and he spent virtually every minute on the PP w/ the Sedins.

I wouldn't trade Coburn. First off, he's not that old, at 28 years of age, he should have a lot of years left in him.

I doubt Meszaros has any value. Sizeable cap hit, bad injury history in recent seasons...maybe worth a 3rd rounder if somebody really thinks he can rebound.

Hartnell is over 30 now, so the age question is relevant in his case. I'd probably be willing to move him for a first rounder. That said, not sold that there'd be an offer of one.
- Jsaquella

Meszaros is most valuable in the lineup for the reason you stated. If he's healthy, he'll help a ton on the blueline. He has very little (if any) value, so it's best to cross your fingers and hope he can rebound instead of selling low.

she survived with a slit throat?
- mydoglicks

Kind of.... (spoiler)

You're right.

The thing to keep in mind is that unless a team is using 5-man units at ES, the D won't always synch up with forwards. Also, D get more shifts than forwards, so they'll obviously spend time with a variety of forward lines.

With that said, Edler actually spent more time at ES with the Sedin line than he did with his main d-partner (Bieksa), and he spent virtually every minute on the PP w/ the Sedins.
- Tomahawk

Understood. But Bieksa missed a few games (played only 39 games, while Edler and the Sedins played the full 48). So that could account for the fact that his minutes with Bieksa were less.

As for the PP stuff, Edler and the Sedins are all on the top PP unit for Vancouver. So wouldn't it make sense they play almost every PP minute together since they were all healthy all season long?

None of this seems unusual or unexpected to me....

I wouldn't trade Coburn. First off, he's not that old, at 28 years of age, he should have a lot of years left in him.

I doubt Meszaros has any value. Sizeable cap hit, bad injury history in recent seasons...maybe worth a 3rd rounder if somebody really thinks he can rebound.

Hartnell is over 30 now, so the age question is relevant in his case. I'd probably be willing to move him for a first rounder. That said, not sold that there'd be an offer of one.
- Jsaquella

I don't see anyone 28 or over as the core of the team that can potentially challenge for a cup in a few years. They may help but if I can move one for a young piece id do it in a heartbeat but you are right you can NOT miss on your draft picks

I guess here is my issue. We say that we can draft a forward and trade that asset for a top caliber defenseman, except a) no one here wants to trade the assets most likely to land that defenseman (Coots, B Schenn), and b) teams that have young defenseman that are not without risk are not trading them, so you are likely getting someone that a team is down on. And even then, you are giving up a lot.

I like the three dmen you just proposed. But playing devil's advocate,

1. Hartnell is on the wrong side of 30 which for a power forward would likely make a team nervous, so likely only a team that is very close in contention with excess young D would bite on him.

2. I really like Read, but the reality is that he was undrafted (likely to affect perception) and 1 year from UFA. This will hurt him.

3. Simmonds might have most trade potential but is still likely a secondary asset (he was in Richards trade).

To me, the most viable strategy is to draft dman this year, scoring forward or another d next year and then supplement with veterans 2-3 years out.

(Obviously plug roster until then).
- TheGreat28

I think that Read being undrafted at this point is irrelevant. He's proven that he is a solid NHL player.

I don't see anyone 28 or over as the core of the team that can potentially challenge for a cup in a few years. They may help but if I can move one for a young piece id do it in a heartbeat but you are right you can NOT miss on your draft picks
- SMS4016

I think Coburn can be a piece of the puzzle. Every team needs some steady veteran dmen in the 3-5 slots (think Rob Scuderi). Maybe not an impact player, but a steady contributor.

I think that Read being undrafted at this point is irrelevant. He's proven that he is a solid NHL player.
- MJL

Agreed. Kind of like getting your first job out of college. Your first job you're based on your GPA (or, in Read's case, what he was able to do against college kids). After that, no one cares about your college, and you're based on your previous experience.

I agree on that.
I think with Semin, there were legitimate concerns with his work ethic (in fact, that has been the knock on him since he entered the league). So I'd bet that most teams were hesitant to offer him long-term/big-money deals, but Carolina figured they'd take a shot on him for 1 year thinking he could produce at big money level. Now the he pretty much did, he's probably going to get than multi-year deal.
- jmatchett383

He already has. Carolina signed him to a 5 year deal for 35M

I think that Read being undrafted at this point is irrelevant. He's proven that he is a solid NHL player.
- MJL

Right.

The only thing that's relevant is how much of a raise he'll be looking for after this year.

He already has. Carolina signed him to a 5 year deal for 35M
- MJL

Didn't realize that. But yes, that was my point.

Understood. But Bieksa missed a few games (played only 39 games, while Edler and the Sedins played the full 48). So that could account for the fact that his minutes with Bieksa were less.
- BringBack25

Good catch there.

But, if you look at Bieksa's line, you can take the injury out of the equation. He spent 41% of the time w/ Edler, which is still well short of the 53-56% that Garrison and Hamhuis spend together. Why is this important? From his elevated OZ% (57%) and Bieksa's lower OZ% (49%), it seems that Vigneault is replacing Edler w/ Hamhuis/Tanev/Garrison in a good number of defensive situations. This could partly be because the aforementioned guys are better suited to those situations, or it could be a reflection of some instability in Edler's d-zone game, or some combo thereof.

As for the PP stuff, Edler and the Sedins are all on the top PP unit for Vancouver. So wouldn't it make sense they play almost every PP minute together since they were all healthy all season long?

None of this seems unusual or unexpected to me....
- BringBack25

Like you said, almost everybody's WOWOY numbers look much better w/ the Sedins than w/o... the more time you spend with them, at ES or PP, the more benefit you stand to gain. Edler's spent more time w/ the Sedins than any other Canucks blueliner over the past several years.

Just like it would be foolhardy to value Burrows as a standalone 30-goal scorer, it might be unwise to assume that Edler will be a 40-50 point dman in another situation. Take his numbers w/ a grain of salt is what I'm saying.

Like you said, almost everybody's WOWOY numbers look much better w/ the Sedins than w/o... the more time you spend with them, at ES or PP, the more benefit you stand to gain. Edler's spent more time w/ the Sedins than any other Canucks blueliner over the past several years.

Just like it would be foolhardy to value Burrows as a standalone 30-goal scorer, it might be unwise to assume that Edler will be a 40-50 point dman in another situation. Take his numbers w/ a grain of salt is what I'm saying.
- Tomahawk

Of course Edler spent more time with the Sedins then any other Canucks blueliner. That only makes sense. He is their top offensive producer from the back end. So you play him with the top line as much as possible. Any Coach worth his salt would work that matchup. And it's not unreasonable to assume that Edler could produce those numbers in a Flyers uniform, playing with Giroux and Voracek. And on the Flyers excellent PP. He'd likely make the Flyers PP even better.

Billy, what about Dustin Penner??? He's got the size, hands, and is moderately priced.

Of course Edler spent more time with the Sedins then any other Canucks blueliner. That only makes sense. He is their top offensive producer from the back end. So you play him with the top line as much as possible. Any Coach worth his salt would work that matchup. And it's not unreasonable to assume that Edler could produce those numbers in a Flyers uniform, playing with Giroux and Voracek. And on the Flyers excellent PP. He'd likely make the Flyers PP even better.
- MJL

Still missing the point, I see.

Still missing the point, I see.
- Tomahawk

Not missing the point at all. What I am doing is refuting the attempt you're making to try and discredit Edler as a player.

I think Coburn can be a piece of the puzzle. Every team needs some steady veteran dmen in the 3-5 slots (think Rob Scuderi). Maybe not an impact player, but a steady contributor.
- jmatchett383

I do too but if I can get younger and he had to go so be it. Plus in a few years his deal will be up and I'm not interested in a 4 to 5 mil cap hit for Him. Just thinking 3 years down the line

We could always try to try to sign Clarkson to a normal contract. If we signed him for Hartnell money, I'm sure we would still have the money to resign our youth, right?

We could always try to try to sign Clarkson to a normal contract. If we signed him for Hartnell money, I'm sure we would still have the money to resign our youth, right?
- JAKEw1234

No, he'd be the 3rd in the Hartnell/Simmonds mold why add a 3rd. Maybe if one is moved then I'd consider it.

No, he'd be the 3rd in the Hartnell/Simmonds mold why add a 3rd. Maybe if one is moved then I'd consider it.
- ob18

Sorry, I meant to imply that Hartnell would be traded in a deal for Edler. Me and my short-term memory

Not missing the point at all. What I am doing is refuting the attempt you're making to try and discredit Edler as a player.
- MJL

You're not doing a very good job since all you have to offer in response are your usual unsupported claims, personal biases and anecdotal observations.

Sorry, I meant to imply that Hartnell would be traded in a deal for Edler. Me and my short-term memory
- JAKEw1234

Maybe but I'm leaning towards no.