You can't have a team tank or even arrange for a team to tank but that being said... I still bemoaned the fact that they waited until the end of the season to go on a run and swap our number 5 position into an 11.
- mayorofangrytown

Yup. I called that a month before it happened.

If they really want to show patience and go about building the team the right way, they will trade down and get two first rounders this year.

That would show me something, along with holding onto Couts, B Schenn, etc.

But it is darn hard to picture them trading down.
- Marc D

The only way I see them trading down is if they really can't trade into the top 5. You know they are drooling over adding one of those players to the roster. Who wouldn't?

I don't see much of anything to hold onto on this roster. I find it pretty unspectacular. It's great to speculate what this guy or that guy could become. We have some nice pieces but everyone on this non-playoff roster can be traded in the right deal.

Here's the thing, really -- I asked some of the hockey analytics guys at the Vancouver Sun about what I was looking at with the Flyers, and they told me straight up that the Flyers were absolutely not as bad as they looked when they were in 14th place in the conference.

They had injuries, horrific shooting percentages at 5v5, horrific save percentages at 5v5. Some of that was due to talent and poor play; they deserved to be where the were in some cases.

But the analytics guys said that, more likely than not, they were due for a hot streak if they simply played hard, because the percentages would correct themselves, and that while they would likely miss the playoffs, their metrics were that of a team that would finish ninth or 10th in the conference.

That's what they did. I tend to believe in the developing area of Corsi, possession time, etc., and in this case, it truly wasn't that the Flyers blew a draft pick by not tanking. It's that, all things being equal, they simply weren't awful enough to be as bad as Calgary, Florida, Buffalo, Carolina, NJ, etc.
- AllInForFlyers

This is my conundrum. I don't think that the Flyers are a bad team, at all. I think that they were poorly utilized by the coaching staff for the bulk of the year, suffered a lot of injuries and bad luck and had stretches where they simply couldn't score, despite getting and creating chances.

If they can't make additions on defense, but come out and play the "simplified" system they used at the end of the year, after injuries to Coburn, Meszaros and Grossmann, they should be a playoff team, at least.

I still think that going on the little run at the end of the year isn't a bad thing, so long as the young guys come back hungry and ticked off at missing the playoffs, but confident after the late run.

What's the objective? To get back in the playoffs? Or to build a team that you can truly expect to contend? I don't see JML being the answer to the latter.
- MJL

It would behoove them to take a step-by-step approach, instead of once again, trying to accelerate the timetable and shooting themselves in the foot in the process. Walk before they try to run, that kind of thing.

Of course Liles isn't the answer, but he could be part of the solution -- he's almost a carbon copy of Matt Carle, but with a better shot and maybe a bit less defensive acumen. This team couldn't use a player like that?

The all or nothing approach to chasing Suter and Weber already cost them once last summer. It shouldn't be Edler/Yandle or bust this summer while very useful players get snatched up during the ensuing chase.

Yup. I called that a month before it happened.
- PLindbergh31

I made sure I complained about it every day while it was happening much to the chagrin of the other posters on here. I'm all for winning but why wait until it did nothing but harm.

without all the breakaways and odd man rushes they gave up, Bryz would have looked a heck of a lot better.

he might not even be in the buyout conversation right now, if they played a better system
- Marc D

Possible, but it's at the point now where I can't see him rebounding and staying at a high level for n extended period. He's had brief periods of successes as a Flyer, but the inconsistency has been a problem.

Here's the thing, really -- I asked some of the hockey analytics guys at the Vancouver Sun about what I was looking at with the Flyers, and they told me straight up that the Flyers were absolutely not as bad as they looked when they were in 14th place in the conference.

They had injuries, horrific shooting percentages at 5v5, horrific save percentages at 5v5. Some of that was due to talent and poor play; they deserved to be where the were in some cases.

But the analytics guys said that, more likely than not, they were due for a hot streak if they simply played hard, because the percentages would correct themselves, and that while they would likely miss the playoffs, their metrics were that of a team that would finish ninth or 10th in the conference.

That's what they did. I tend to believe in the developing area of Corsi, possession time, etc., and in this case, it truly wasn't that the Flyers blew a draft pick by not tanking. It's that, all things being equal, they simply weren't awful enough to be as bad as Calgary, Florida, Buffalo, Carolina, NJ, etc.
- AllInForFlyers

My thoughts exactly. I figured the law of averages would come into play at some point. I was hoping for a top 5 pick but even as they were playing poorly, I knew that they were too good to be one of the top 5 worst teams.

Imagine if Laviolette had recognized his team's weaknesses earlier and went to the simplified system that stressed better team defense in early February, rather than waiting until it was all but hopeless to gain a playoff berth.
- Jsaquella

Anything that got them in the playoffs would have made me happier but you know he just did that because of injuries not because he thought it was a good idea.

They could have taken the time to evaluate some of the younger guys that they have in the system....Fire the coach and start fresh this year.
- Philly1980

I would have liked that but it is what it is.

BC bud is a hell of a drug
- Marc D

Did you actually read that thing. Just WOW!!!

I made sure I complained about it every day while it was happening much to the chagrin of the other posters on here. I'm all for winning but why wait until it did nothing but harm.
- mayorofangrytown

I wouldn't worry about other posters. Winning games when you are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention, does one thing. Ensure a worse draft pick. Mission accomplished.

This is my conundrum. I don't think that the Flyers are a bad team, at all. I think that they were poorly utilized by the coaching staff for the bulk of the year, suffered a lot of injuries and bad luck and had stretches where they simply couldn't score, despite getting and creating chances.

If they can't make additions on defense, but come out and play the "simplified" system they used at the end of the year, after injuries to Coburn, Meszaros and Grossmann, they should be a playoff team, at least.

I still think that going on the little run at the end of the year isn't a bad thing, so long as the young guys come back hungry and ticked off at missing the playoffs, but confident after the late run.
- Jsaquella

The Flyers were better than the Senators and Islanders, IMO. If they had adjusted sooner, they'd have easily made the playoffs which is why I am still confused that Lavy is coming back.

hey im happy with the 11th pick....i dont want to trade up....dont want to trade down...
- Philly1980

It depends on the cost. Even with the 8th pick, they're in the same spot, not getting one of the big 5.

I'm also fine with moving down, because they will get a good prospect anywhere in the top 20, and if they can add a second first rounder or even more picks later, it's definitely worth considering, unless there's a player that they absolutely love sitting at 11.

Anything that got them in the playoffs would have made me happier but you know he just did that because of injuries not because he thought it was a good idea.
- mayorofangrytown

That's why I wouldn't have kept him as the coach.

I wouldn't worry about other posters. Winning games when you are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention, does one thing. Ensure a worse draft pick. Mission accomplished.
- PLindbergh31

Yeah I was chillin' there in April when we were all but eliminated and blowing chunks nightly on the ice. Not happy but content that the season was over and if they were going to be bad at least they were going to be really bad.

That's why I wouldn't have kept him as the coach.
- Jsaquella

however, if they had canned him we'd be worried right now that torts would be the next coach.

This is my conundrum. I don't think that the Flyers are a bad team, at all. I think that they were poorly utilized by the coaching staff for the bulk of the year, suffered a lot of injuries and bad luck and had stretches where they simply couldn't score, despite getting and creating chances.

If they can't make additions on defense, but come out and play the "simplified" system they used at the end of the year, after injuries to Coburn, Meszaros and Grossmann, they should be a playoff team, at least.

I still think that going on the little run at the end of the year isn't a bad thing, so long as the young guys come back hungry and ticked off at missing the playoffs, but confident after the late run.
- Jsaquella

I agree with all of this -- Peter Laviolette isn't blameless. He was slow to make necessary adjustments to his personnel.

But there are a few things I truly believe, after looking at the metrics: It is almost impossible for Sean Couturier and Scott Hartnell to shoot as poorly as they did last season 5v5. It's almost impossible. Yes, sometimes you have to make your own luck, but at the same time, the possession numbers for those guys, as well as the shots taken...it's almost impossible to shoot that poorly again. Those two are due for a market correction, and a significant one.

I also think that Bruno Gervais is the worst player for Braydon Coburn to play with in the Flyers organization -- Coburn has to play with someone who is dependable, who will not turn the puck over under pressure.

Coburn played relatively well with Nicklas Grossmann, and has proven that he can with Timonen, as well. But his numbers with Gervais...painful. Yes, it would've been nice if Coburn could've carried Gervais. But he couldn't, and that pairing was a disaster.

That's why I wouldn't have kept him as the coach.
- Jsaquella

I'm more than with you. I'd let him go today. It would make me feel better about next season. I started bailing in the Cup Finals and was watching his band wagon fade into the distance faster than he could yank a goalie the following playoff year.

He took what I thought was a Fillet dinner and turned it into a bad looking stew.

The Flyers were better than the Senators and Islanders, IMO. If they had adjusted sooner, they'd have easily made the playoffs which is why I am still confused that Lavy is coming back.
- NickTheKid87

Agreed, especially with how many injuries Ottawa had. Goalie playing at a Vezina level out, top offensive player out, top goal scoring winger out and Norris Trophy winning, 30 minute a night, offensive dynamo defenseman out....and they make the playoffs.

The Flyers were banged up, but nowhere near as bad as Ottawa was. The Walrus adjusted and got his team to keep winning. Laviolette kept jamming square pegs into round holes

It's going to take a few years. It's a process. But it's not going to happen if they don't solve the defense issue.
- MJL

my time frame is hopefully they get there within Giroux/Voracek's window

so I am ready to be patient
hope for the best but not expecting it for 3-4 years anyway

however, if they had canned him we'd be worried right now that torts would be the next coach.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Or Lindy Ruff.

yikes!!!!

Did you actually read that thing. Just WOW!!!
- mayorofangrytown

yeh I lost some brain cells and time I'll never get back, but it was entertaining

The only way I see them trading down is if they really can't trade into the top 5. You know they are drooling over adding one of those players to the roster. Who wouldn't?

I don't see much of anything to hold onto on this roster. I find it pretty unspectacular. It's great to speculate what this guy or that guy could become. We have some nice pieces but everyone on this non-playoff roster can be traded in the right deal.
- mayorofangrytown

Giroux/Voracek are keepers

I add Couts too, but I know you don't see it in him yet

Or Lindy Ruff.

yikes!!!!
- mayorofangrytown

with those choices i'll sit tight on the fire lavy thing.

Agreed, especially with how many injuries Ottawa had. Goalie playing at a Vezina level out, top offensive player out, top goal scoring winger out and Norris Trophy winning, 30 minute a night, offensive dynamo defenseman out....and they make the playoffs.

The Flyers were banged up, but nowhere near as bad as Ottawa was. The Walrus adjusted and got his team to keep winning. Laviolette kept jamming square pegs into round holes
- Jsaquella

It's a really frustrating thing. I almost felt bad watching the Rags scuffle along against the Bruins because they were basically in the same boat as us.