I feel sorry for diehard Pens fans right now. This is sad...

well Bylsma can flip a coin on Weds...3 in on Vokoun and 3 in on Fleury...

I feel sorry for diehard Pens fans right now. This is sad...
- Tugboat

I feel sorry for diehard Pens fans right now. This is sad...
- Tugboat

Not too sad.......Pierre must be miserable knowing that he may not be able to stroke Sidney anymore after a few more games.

Thanks for the link, and your point is taken. But you can't tell me these numbers mean Crow is the "main" reason for the success of the PK. It's still a team effort, and the 4-5 SOG numbers don't tell the whole story of the quality of the shots being saved, and it could be argued that the work of guys like Frolik and Kruger are making it more difficult for opponents to get quality shots off, and making it easier for Crawford to make the saves that he does.

Obviously, you can't have a great PK if your goalie is terrible, but any very good NHL goalie would be the beneficiary of the PK unit in front of him, and the Hawks PK would still be elite.
- Tugboat

I agree the Hawks PK is very, very good (outside of Crawford) and its fair to say they influence shots and make it harder on the PP, but its not soooo much better to explain how far above Crow's save percentage than everyone else's. There are still tons of great chances against the Hawks (because there always is on a PP, minus the Hawks ) and Crow has been nearly unbeatable

Thanks for the link, and your point is taken. But you can't tell me these numbers mean Crow is the "main" reason for the success of the PK. It's still a team effort, and the 4-5 SOG numbers don't tell the whole story of the quality of the shots being saved, and it could be argued that the work of guys like Frolik and Kruger are making it more difficult for opponents to get quality shots off, and making it easier for Crawford to make the saves that he does.

Obviously, you can't have a great PK if your goalie is terrible, but any very good NHL goalie would be the beneficiary of the PK unit in front of him, and the Hawks PK would still be elite.
- Tugboat

Isn't there an old saying that for a team's PK to be good, the goalie needs to be their best penalty killer? I think it is more accurate to say that any solid PK unit would benefit by having a really good goalie behind them. I know it is hard for some (not saying you) to get past the PTSD inflicted by Crow's past, but he has been an excellent NHL goalie all season long. And if that old saying is correct, Crow is the leader of the PK unit.

Let me get this straight, I think I figured it out. A players success is often the function of the talent he plays with and the system he play in?

Ok, got it, we can put asterisks by everyone in the ultimate hair splitting extravaganza known as blackhawk hockey analysis.

It goes back to hockey lore that the goalie is your best penalty killer..this year added in, except when the goalie is CC...there is some other reason/justification.

Here I was thinking Gretzky was a great player, but I forgot that he played with Kurri, who gave him all his assists.

Let me get this straight, I think I figured it out. A players success is often the function of the talent he plays with and the system he play in?

Ok, got it, we can put asterisks by everyone in the ultimate hair splitting extravaganza known as blackhawk hockey analysis.

It goes back to hockey lore that the goalie is your best penalty killer..this year added in, except when the goalie is CC...there is some other reason/justification.

Here I was thinking Gretzky was a great player, but I forgot that he played with Kurri, who gave him all his assists.
- TrueGrit

Well said, except is was McSorley who cleared all the space for him that allowed him to score so much.

Brian Noonan on WGN summed up the Bruins at Pens game 2 well...

...Bruins lay "the smack down" on 'em...6-1

Let me get this straight, I think I figured it out. A players success is often the function of the talent he plays with and the system he play in?

Ok, got it, we can put asterisks by everyone in the ultimate hair splitting extravaganza known as blackhawk hockey analysis.

It goes back to hockey lore that the goalie is your best penalty killer..this year added in, except when the goalie is CC...there is some other reason/justification.

Here I was thinking Gretzky was a great player, but I forgot that he played with Kurri, who gave him all his assists.
- TrueGrit

Well said Grit...

This discussion has similarities to the notion I've heard regardling coach Q...

..."the Hawks won in 2010, and continue to win, despite Q. A monkey could coach this team."

- philco28

That is one of the funniest photos I've ever seen lmfao

Well said, except is was McSorley who cleared all the space for him that allowed him to score so much.
- mohel

Well said, except it was Fuhr who made the initial save, and cleared it to Coffey, who gave it to Kurri to feed Gretz.

I ain't buying that McSorley crap!

I agree the Hawks PK is very, very good (outside of Crawford) and its fair to say they influence shots and make it harder on the PP, but its not soooo much better to explain how far above Crow's save percentage than everyone else's. There are still tons of great chances against the Hawks (because there always is on a PP, minus the Hawks ) and Crow has been nearly unbeatable
- rollpards19

one last little nugget...

40 goalies went into the shootout last year. Of the 40, 13 had a worse save percentage than CC. No D, just shooter vice goalie.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/statistics/goalies

I know it is hard for some (not saying you) to get past the PTSD inflicted by Crow's past, but he has been an excellent NHL goalie all season long. And if that old saying is correct, Crow is the leader of the PK unit.
- mohel

PTSD. LOL! But yeah, it's only natural to have a little of that. Before the playoffs, I was one of the fans who was hoping Razor would get the gig, and after that first, soft goal against the Wild, I thought "Here we go again..." But Crow has proven— or is at least proving now— that the occasional bad goal isn't going to get into his head and open the floodgates, and is making a believer out of me. After the Hawks win the Cup my PTSD will be cured!

PTSD. LOL! But yeah, it's only natural to have a little of that. Before the playoffs, I was one of the fans who was hoping Razor would get the gig, and after that first, soft goal against the Wild, I thought "Here we go again..." But Crow has proven— or is at least proving now— that the occasional bad goal isn't going to get into his head and open the floodgates, and is making a believer out of me. After the Hawks win the Cup my PTSD will be cured!
- Tugboat

me too.

one last little nugget...

40 goalies went into the shootout last year. Of the 40, only 8 had a worse save percentage than CC. No D, just shooter vice goalie.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/statistics/goalies
- fvineze

This can't be serious, you're last two arguments are "he looks behind himself a lot" and shootouts. He was better than Pekka Rinne this year at shootouts, but that doesn't make him better than Rinne. Shootouts aren't hockey, they're phucking stupid. Crawford is an average NHL goalie playing at a Conn Smythe level these playoffs.

Brian Noonan on WGN summed up the Bruins at Pens game 2 well...

...Bruins lay "the smack down" on 'em...6-1
- ArlingtonRob

I know Brian personally - ecstatic at the success he's had recently here on WGN!

one last little nugget...

40 goalies went into the shootout last year. Of the 40, only 8 had a worse save percentage than CC. No D, just shooter vice goalie.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/statistics/goalies
- fvineze

Some of the goalies that had a worse % than C2?

Jonathan Quick
Jimmy Howard
Martin Brodeur
Pekka Rinne
Craig Anderson
Mike Smith

Which pretty much proves shootout % is worthless

This can't be serious, you're last two arguments are "he looks behind himself a lot" and shootouts. He was better than Pekka Rinne this year at shootouts, but that doesn't make him better than Rinne. Shootouts aren't hockey, they're phucking stupid. Crawford is an average NHL goalie playing at a Conn Smythe level these playoffs.
- rollpards19

puts him below average.... When there is no defense protecting him.

Some oft he goalies that had a worse % than C2?
Jonathan Quick
Jimmy Howard
Martin Brodeur
Pekka Rinne
Craig Anderson
Mike Smith

Which pretty much proves shootout % is pretty worthless
- darkman

shootouts are worthless I agree. I bet the goalie still does his best to stop the goal..in that effort CC is below average with no defense to pump up his save %

Hey don't let them get in the way
- rollpards19

Winston Churchill once said, "There are three types of lies. There are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics."

shootouts are worthless I agree. I bet the goalie still does his best to stop the goal..in that effort CC is below average with no defense to pump up his save %
- fvineze

But so is Jonathan Quick and Martin Brodeur!!!!!! How can you not see you're hypocrisy on this

That is one of the funniest photos I've ever seen lmfao
- golfbard

It's also the perfect analogy to what is happening in the series. Hope we can win G3 and close the series out quick and the prep for Boston most likely.

shootouts are worthless I agree. I bet the goalie still does his best to stop the goal..in that effort CC is below average with no defense to pump up his save %
- fvineze

Well I guess Jonathan Quick is even further below average based on that logic.

I feel sorry for diehard Pens fans right now. This is sad...
- Tugboat

I'm stunned by the results so far...

...and disappointed that as a series Pens vs. Bruins is a complete flop so far.

The Pens are gonna need to dig very, very deep to save face...let alone get back into this series.