Winston Churchill once said, "There are three types of lies. There are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics."
- NewToHockey

If you're questioning my post, then I couldn't more strongly disagree. But if you're just posting some cool historical quote by one of history's most interesting figures then

This can't be serious, you're last two arguments are "he looks behind himself a lot" and shootouts. He was better than Pekka Rinne this year at shootouts, but that doesn't make him better than Rinne. Shootouts aren't hockey, they're phucking stupid. Crawford is an average NHL goalie playing at a Conn Smythe level these playoffs.
- rollpards19

I pretty much agree about shootouts. Because of the travesty of current regular season rules, shootouts ARE hockey, but they shouldn't be. And how goalies conduct themselves during shootouts says little about their game under the duress of real game conditions. It's more akin to the slam dunk contests or home run derbies in those sports.

But we're now at a point where we can say that Crow is definitely an above average goalie. Both the regular season and the playoffs have amply demonstrated this. Is he Hasek? No, but he's not average either. He's somewhere in between. The more important question is: Is he good enough to win a Cup with the support of his current team? We'll have to watch the games and find out...

Crawford is a big part of the reason for the great penalty kill, but I think that he comes in third to Frolik and Krueger without whom that doesn't happen.

Bylesma has no control over his team and seems to be in over his head.

one last little nugget...

40 goalies went into the shootout last year. Of the 40, 13 had a worse save percentage than CC. No D, just shooter vice goalie.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/statistics/goalies
- fvineze

Then we're doomed, since we all know how many playoff games come down to shootouts.

Well I guess Jonathan Quick is even further below average based on that logic.
- darkman

This argument drives me nutz since some of the best goalies haven't won squat in the NHL.

Luongo
Lundqvist
Kiprusoff

Some great goalies of the past never won the cup.

Esposito
Joseph
Hextall

And look who actually won the cup

Bill Ranford
Chris Osgood
Marc-Andre Fluery

If you're questioning my post, then I couldn't more strongly disagree. But if you're just posting some cool historical quote by one of history's most interesting figures then
- rollpards19

Winston Churchill is/was/always will be THE MAN #MAJOR #RESPECT for him !!!

I pretty much agree about shootouts. Because of the travesty of current regular season rules, shootouts ARE hockey, but they shouldn't be. And how goalies conduct themselves during shootouts says little about their game under the duress of real game conditions. It's more akin to the slam dunk contests or home run derbies in those sports.

But we're now at a point where we can say that Crow is definitely an above average goalie. Both the regular season and the playoffs have amply demonstrated this. Is he Hasek? No, but he's not average either. He's somewhere in between. The more important question is: Is he good enough to win a Cup with the support of his current team? We'll have to watch the games and find out...
- Tugboat

Had this debate a couple days ago, I think he falls in the 12-17 range of goalies, which is how I define average, but thats more semantics than us disagreeing

That is one of the funniest photos I've ever seen lmfao
- golfbard

Yeah I hate both of them, especially Chara, but it is funny as hell

Winston Churchill is/was/always will be THE MAN #MAJOR #RESPECT for him !!!
- philco28

At the very least, he kept a few distilleries & wineries in business.

If you're questioning my post, then I couldn't more strongly disagree. But if you're just posting some cool historical quote by one of history's most interesting figures then
- rollpards19

I just find the fact that some people cannot give Crawford any credit amusing. My take? I think he has trouble focusing when most of the play is on the other end of the ice and he gets caught unprepared (first Wild goal) at times. During the PK, he is always ready since he knows full well he has to be. I think the D helps him, but I also think he's helped the D far more than many credit.

At the very least, he kept a few distilleries & wineries in business.
- Q...argh

And cigar manufacturers...but when everybody was shi t'n themselves over Hitler...


Churchill said...''LET'S PHUCK'N GO'.

Another old paradign so many you have to reject:


Pittsburgh 37 hits

Bruins 19 hits

Ignila, Morrow, Cooke,Kunitz, Neal, Douglas Murray .... those hits make a difference?

"Get bigger physical guys, because they will slow up the other team."

I'm stunned by the results so far...

...and disappointed that as a series Pens vs. Bruins is a complete flop so far.

The Pens are gonna need to dig very, very deep to save face...let alone get back into this series.
- ArlingtonRob

Stunned is a good word for it. Pathetic passing in the neutral and O zones, sloppy turnovers... This is the great Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kunitz and Neal?

And, not to look past LA yet, but don't we want this to go 7?

PTSD. LOL! But yeah, it's only natural to have a little of that. Before the playoffs, I was one of the fans who was hoping Razor would get the gig, and after that first, soft goal against the Wild, I thought "Here we go again..." But Crow has proven— or is at least proving now— that the occasional bad goal isn't going to get into his head and open the floodgates, and is making a believer out of me. After the Hawks win the Cup my PTSD will be cured!
- Tugboat

I confess that I have had a case of the Crow PTSD, but it is going away for me too. I know when he lets in another softie, I'll be going nuts. But all goalies let in goals they shouldn't (Quick would tell you he should've had a couple in Game 2) - the cure is to see the next one as an individual occurrence rather than a pattern. That is my mantra, which it is time to practice!!!

This argument drives me nutz since some of the best goalies haven't won squat in the NHL.

Luongo
Lundqvist
Kiprusoff

Some great goalies of the past never won the cup.

Esposito
Joseph
Hextall

And look who actually won the cup

Bill Ranford
Chris Osgood
Marc-Andre Fluery
- ArlingtonRob

Not sure what argument you're referencing there....my post was sarcastic

Crawford is a big part of the reason for the great penalty kill, but I think that he comes in third to Frolik and Krueger without whom that doesn't happen.

Bylesma has no control over his team and seems to be in over his head.
- Q...argh

Statistically (in terms of goals against) Toews is the best forward on PK, by a noticeable margin, even when accounting for Kruger/Froliks TOI advantage. Toews was even on the PK this year

Pretty awesome, guy's a goal scorer. I wonder, and this isn't a critique because thats an amazing stat/production, if its because teams work so hard on Toews and Kane, he sees a little more free ice? Either way, that kind of goal production alone is worth his contract
- rollpards19

I have written this a few times....Sharp is a bigger star up Noth than he is in Chgo.

Here he gets 4th place ink of the forwards....I can't ell you how many times his name comes up in interviews over the years.

Hawks continue to roll with a 4-2 victory, Quick looks human. "Soft" Hawks taking care of tough Kings:FOX Chicago:http://bit.ly/15ynJtj

The hawks D has been incredible keeping opponents SOG to a league minimum. Corey has benefited from that. The second the D is less than stellar, Corey is no longer superhuman. We need to understand our strengths and our weaknesses. Corey is Not our strength. He may not be a complete weakness but you have to admit even he looks behind himself a lot after a shot.
- fvineze

Look I never said Crawford was superhuman. What I am saying is you seem to really not like him to the point you can't give him his due even when he's playing well. If you want to point to shootout stats as an indicator of playing poorly then you would have to acknowledge his stats in the playoffs as an indication that he's playing well.

He's given up a few softies in the postseason for sure but it has not hurt the team and he's been able to shrug it off and not let it carry over to the next shot, period, game, etc save maybe one sequence against Detroit in game 3. Even Niemi in the Cup run gave up a softie here or there; I remember one vs NASH that was shot from like center ice or something.

If Crawford is not a strength right now then he's a weakness; not sure how you make that call. He's playing with a lot of confidence right now so I would have to identify him as a strength. Just sayin...

I just find the fact that some people cannot give Crawford any credit amusing. My take? I think he has trouble focusing when most of the play is on the other end of the ice and he gets caught unprepared (first Wild goal) at times. During the PK, he is always ready since he knows full well he has to be. I think the D helps him, but I also think he's helped the D far more than many credit.
- NewToHockey

Me too... I guess some people have to have their whipping boys!

I have written this a few times....Sharp is a bigger star up Noth than he is in Chgo.

Here he gets 4th place ink of the forwards....I can't ell you how many times his name comes up in interviews over the years.

Hawks continue to roll with a 4-2 victory, Quick looks human. "Soft" Hawks taking care of tough Kings:FOX Chicago:http://bit.ly/15ynJtj
- Al

I know his name gets thrown around for Team Canada, if he has a good start to next year, I'd imagine he'd get "a hell of a look" -Miracle. Also him being one of 2 Canadians can't hurt

Had this debate a couple days ago, I think he falls in the 12-17 range of goalies, which is how I define average, but thats more semantics than us disagreeing
- rollpards19

Agreed. It's probably semantics. It's also all kind of hypothetical, because how "good" someone is neither happens in a vacuum, nor is it static. And every year, teams that have successful, deep PO runs always seem to have a few players who "grow up" before our very eyes. Just look at Hammer, Saad, Shaw and Bicks!

And Crow, he's writing the narrative of how "good" a goalie he is right now, in real time.

Me too... I guess some people have to have their whipping boys!
- moots

OK. I'm convinced. Disregard all previous posts.

OK. I'm convinced. Disregard all previous posts.

- fvineze

Sweet - now can we talk about who will make up the Hawks' fourth line three years from now?

Another old paradign so many you have to reject:


Pittsburgh 37 hits

Bruins 19 hits

Ignila, Morrow, Cooke,Kunitz, Neal, Douglas Murray .... those hits make a difference?

"Get bigger physical guys, because they will slow up the other team."
- wiz1901

Nice job Wiz

...the cure is to see the next one as an individual occurrence rather than a pattern. That is my mantra, which it is time to practice!!!
- mohel

Nicely put. And, obviously, all goalies give up bad goals. In the case of Quick last night, I'm certain that LA fans are seeing this as an occurrence rather than a pattern. There's no reason to think otherwise.

Re Quick, I was surprised to hear his lifetime numbers when playing back-to-back games. They're awful. Probably because he uses his legs so energetically?