Fleury looked bad on two of the three goals he gave up last night. On top of that, there was a play last night in the second period where Boston would have had an easy wraparound goal if the player hadn't been taken off the puck as he came around. Fleury was stumbling all over himself and nowhere near getting over in time.

Besides, I don't think Vokoun has even been all that bad in the two games to date. He's had one of those "not the problem but not the solution, either" series thus far but he's the one who gives Pittsburgh a better chance of winning.

In fact, if I were Bylsma, it would take an injury to Vokoun for Fleury to get a start again in the playoffs. That "you've got to start the high-paid goalie" stuff is nonsense. Go with the one who gives you a better chance of winning, and that's not Fleury. He is still his team's weakest link. He was bad in the 2010, 2011, 2012 playoffs. He's been a mess in the 2013 playoffs to date.

Come playoff time, Fleury fails the Bernie Parent "make the first goal tough and the second one even tougher" mental strength test. He's always on the brink of falling apart as soon as he faces adversity. Why would he miraculously turn things around now?

Remember last year: Fleury played decently in the latter part of Game 4 as well as in Game 5. Everyone around the Pens was saying, "See, 'Flower' is locked in now. He's going to slam the door the rest of the series." The truth of the matter is that he really didn't have much adversity in those games. He came out and was thoroughly mediocre in Game 6 when the Flyers turned up the heat on him again, especially on the backbreaking goals by Briere (moments after Malkin got his team on the board) and the long-distance, unscreened Gustafsson goal.

I'm not pinning all the blame on Fleury (or Vokoun) by any means. The Pens have once again misplaced their committment to team D and any goalie is going to look bad when they get hung out to dry the way they were last night in particular. But the truth of the matter is that the Pens won their 2009 Cup despite getting average-quality goaltending from Fleury and, apart from 2008 (where he was undeniably excellent), he's pretty much been below-average in all of his other playoff runs.
- bmeltzer

Analysis and commentary such as this is what keeps you head-and-shoulders above all others here.



(Bold for emphasis in relation to my opinion of Philadelphia goaltenders this season.)

Im not speaking so much about solid defense, but it seems as though they cant find the balance. They are a pretty predictable team. Bylsma has a ton of talent to work with over there, and to be honest.. with what they gave up to get some of these players... they better hope to god it pays off.
- jak521

I think balance is a key word. You look at a lot of teams that are very good in one aspect of the game, but how they go about it, creates a deficiency in another area. Both in terms of personell and in how they play. The two best teams right now, have that balance. The balance between pressuring the puck, and defending. The balance between skill, speed, and size and toughness. Along with the ever neccessary good goaltending.

Craig Button's final TSN rankings for 2013 Draft: http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

He has goalie Zach Fucale ranked at 7th, Sam Morin (whom he thinks the Flyers will take at #11) as his #13, Rasmus Ristolainen at #25 (comparable with where The Hockey News has him), Ryan Pulock at #30, Jordan Subban at #41 (which mathematically corresponds to where the Flyers second pick is, although these are rankings and NOT a mock Draft).

think he'll get bought out, bill?
- sarmen25

I think his name has enough carry around the league that they could get some value for him from a team like Calgary (if Kipper leaves) or any other team without a #1 goalie.

think he'll get bought out, bill?
- sarmen25

No,regardless of what happens the rest of these playoffs, I think the Pens will continue to insist he's their #1 goalie heading into next year.

Craig Button's final TSN rankings for 2013 Draft: http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

He has goalie Zach Fucale ranked at 7th, Sam Morin (whom he thinks the Flyers will take at #11) as his #13, Rasmus Ristolainen at #25 (comparable with where The Hockey News has him), Ryan Pulock at #30, Jordan Subban at #41 (which mathematically corresponds to where the Flyers second pick is, although these are rankings and NOT a mock Draft).
- bmeltzer

Wow, that is quite a change in some of those rankings....

Craig Button's final TSN rankings for 2013 Draft: http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

He has goalie Zach Fucale ranked at 7th, Sam Morin (whom he thinks the Flyers will take at #11) as his #13, Rasmus Ristolainen at #25 (comparable with where The Hockey News has him), Ryan Pulock at #30, Jordan Subban at #41 (which mathematically corresponds to where the Flyers second pick is, although these are rankings and NOT a mock Draft).
- bmeltzer

That's quite a jump for Morin in "Craig's List" from 32 to 13......

Fleury looked bad on two of the three goals he gave up last night. On top of that, there was a play last night in the second period where Boston would have had an easy wraparound goal if the player hadn't been taken off the puck as he came around. Fleury was stumbling all over himself and nowhere near getting over in time.

Besides, I don't think Vokoun has even been all that bad in the two games to date. He's had one of those "not the problem but not the solution, either" series thus far but he's the one who gives Pittsburgh a better chance of winning.

In fact, if I were Bylsma, it would take an injury to Vokoun for Fleury to get a start again in the playoffs. That "you've got to start the high-paid goalie" stuff is nonsense. Go with the one who gives you a better chance of winning, and that's not Fleury. He is still his team's weakest link. He was bad in the 2010, 2011, 2012 playoffs. He's been a mess in the 2013 playoffs to date.

Come playoff time, Fleury fails the Bernie Parent "make the first goal tough and the second one even tougher" mental strength test. He's always on the brink of falling apart as soon as he faces adversity. Why would he miraculously turn things around now?

Remember last year: Fleury played decently in the latter part of Game 4 as well as in Game 5. Everyone around the Pens was saying, "See, 'Flower' is locked in now. He's going to slam the door the rest of the series." The truth of the matter is that he really didn't have much adversity in those games. He came out and was thoroughly mediocre in Game 6 when the Flyers turned up the heat on him again, especially on the backbreaking goals by Briere (moments after Malkin got his team on the board) and the long-distance, unscreened Gustafsson goal.

I'm not pinning all the blame on Fleury (or Vokoun) by any means. The Pens have once again misplaced their committment to team D and any goalie is going to look bad when they get hung out to dry the way they were last night in particular. But the truth of the matter is that the Pens won their 2009 Cup despite getting average-quality goaltending from Fleury and, apart from 2008 (where he was undeniably excellent), he's pretty much been below-average in all of his other playoff runs.
- bmeltzer

They have myriad of issues in this series. Turnovers at the blue line in each zone, other than Letang they are as weak as the Flyers on the backend, Fleury is awful and Vokoun has been average (the top of the circle, unscreend shots have to get stopped occasionally, they can't all get waved at). Their stars are showing no discipline and the rest of the team is following their lead. I can't see this series turning around.

It's great.

Craig Button's final TSN rankings for 2013 Draft: http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

He has goalie Zach Fucale ranked at 7th, Sam Morin (whom he thinks the Flyers will take at #11) as his #13, Rasmus Ristolainen at #25 (comparable with where The Hockey News has him), Ryan Pulock at #30, Jordan Subban at #41 (which mathematically corresponds to where the Flyers second pick is, although these are rankings and NOT a mock Draft).
- bmeltzer

Here is his top 30:

RK Player
1. Seth Jones
2. Jonathan Drouin
3. Nathan MacKinnon
4. Aleksander Barkov
5. Valeri Nichushkin
6. Sean Monahan
7. Zachary Fucale
8. Darnell Nurse
9. Elias Lindholm
10. Max Domi
11. Nikita Zadorov
12. Alexander Wennberg
13. Samuel Morin
14. Hunter Shinkaruk
15. Josh Morrissey
16. Anthony Mantha
17. Nicolas Petan
18. Morgan Klimchuk
19. Bo Horvat
20. Adam Erne
21. Frederik Gauthier
22. Laurent Dauphin
23. Artturi Lehkonen
24. Madison Bowey
25. Rasmus Ristolainen
26. Ryan Hartman
27. Kerby Rychel
28. Jason Richardinson
29. Emile Poirier
30. Ryan Pulock

FWIW here is my top 20:
1. Mackinnon
2. Jones
3. Nichushkin
4. Drouin
5. Barkov
6. Monahan
7. Lindholm
8. Nurse
9. Shinkaruk
10. Domi
11. Pulock
12. Horvat
13. Fucale
14. Wennberg
15. Zadorov
16. Ristolainen
17. Erne
18. Mantha
19. Morin
20. Morrissey

Craig Button's final TSN rankings for 2013 Draft: http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

He has goalie Zach Fucale ranked at 7th, Sam Morin (whom he thinks the Flyers will take at #11) as his #13, Rasmus Ristolainen at #25 (comparable with where The Hockey News has him), Ryan Pulock at #30, Jordan Subban at #41 (which mathematically corresponds to where the Flyers second pick is, although these are rankings and NOT a mock Draft).
- bmeltzer

Any reasons why Ristolainen dropped that far?

Hurricanes jerseys are much better now. No more ugly Hurricane Warning flag stripe or white piping.
- TrentKlatt

I like the Whites but the Reds look like the RedWings. Far too close.

That's quite a jump for Morin in "Craig's List" from 32 to 13......
- johndewar

I wonder if that is because his appears to be the only thought process that has Morin linked to the Flyers, and he has said it on air more than once?

No,regardless of what happens the rest of these playoffs, I think the Pens will continue to insist he's their #1 goalie heading into next year.
- bmeltzer

That's a mistake. I don't see any chance he turns his game around. Every time the pressures on he folds. You can't come into a 3-0 game and let in the first shot after your team cuts it to 2 with less than a minute left in the period. They went from in it to game over in 30 seconds.

I like the Whites but the Reds look like the RedWings. Far too close.
- mayorofangrytown

The chest logo still looks like a toilet, mid-flush.

I wonder if that is because his appears to be the only thought process that has Morin linked to the Flyers, and he has said it on air more than once?
- AllInForFlyers

That makes sense, but I just wonder why Button wouldn't simply slot Morin 11th instead of 13th.

The chest logo still looks like a toilet, mid-flush.
- johndewar

I want to like it because they tried something different but you're right.

Any reasons why Ristolainen dropped that far?
- TrentKlatt

I think he perceives that Ristolainen doesn't have much offensive upside and there are other guys he sees as more likely to become shutdown D. Ristolainen is considered a relatively safe pick with upside to be a solid second-pairing NHL defenseman (or, at minimum, a very good #5) and could among the first NHL-ready Dmen from this year's Draft class but there are players with higher upside overall in the long-term.

That makes sense, but I just wonder why Button wouldn't simply slot Morin 11th instead of 13th.
- johndewar

Button himself is very, very high on Morin. But these are his personal rankings, not his mock draft.

I think he perceives that Ristolainen doesn't have much offensive upside and there are other guys he sees as more likely to become shutdown D. Ristolainen is considered a relatively safe pick with upside to be a solid second-pairing NHL defenseman (or, at minimum, a very good #5) and could among the first NHL-ready Dmen from this year's Draft class but there are players with higher upside overall in the long-term.
- bmeltzer

Zadorov has made quite a charge. Memorial Cup exposure will do that I guess.

I like the Whites but the Reds look like the RedWings. Far too close.
- mayorofangrytown

Speaking of all red uniforms, anyone else old enough to remember this mess:

Button himself is very, very high on Morin. But these are his personal rankings, not his mock draft.
- bmeltzer

I wonder why, because Button seems to be the only one that has Morin that high.

Is it Morin's size (I see that he's listed at 6'7")?

I would depend on guys on the board here who follow the CHL far more closely than I do to tell me about Morin's play.

FWIW here is my top 20:
1. Mackinnon
2. Jones
3. Nichushkin
4. Drouin
5. Barkov
6. Monahan
7. Lindholm
8. Nurse
9. Shinkaruk
10. Domi
11. Pulock
12. Horvat
13. Fucale
14. Wennberg
15. Zadorov
16. Ristolainen
17. Erne
18. Mantha
19. Morin
20. Morrissey
- BiggE

so many good plyrs this yr, which is why the proposed scenario where the the flyers trade back for 2 picks in between their 1st and 2nd, is intriguing. grabbing a guy like hagg late in the 1st after drafting a forward in their comfort zone, is not a bad way to go.

There is an immaturity in their game that comes from the Captain all the way down.
- MBFlyerfan

this. + a billion.

Speaking of all red uniforms, anyone else old enough to remember this mess:


- johndewar

LOL yes!

I saw the leaked Dallas logo last week. I like it.
- Scoob

the dallas starbucks? meh. better than it is i guess. don't think it's "timeless/classic" like the owner (or spokesperson not sure who) said it should be.