Kind of absurd that many of the same folks that so readily condemn the Flyers for their failure to develop defensemen now want them to rush out and acquire players like McBain that would (barring injury to another d-man) stand in the way of Gus' continued development and playing time. Can't have your cake and eat it too people. If you want to develop defensemen, you need to let them play and let their confidence and experience grow.

If we're getting a true, top-tier puck mover, then that's another story. But I don't want to see them shelve Gus to make room for someone else's reclamation project.
- BringBack25

They shouldn't. McBain or a guy like Rafael Diaz is a fall back if they fail to land the needed top pair guy with mobility and puck skills. They should target a guy like Edler or Yandle or Erik Johnson. If they can't land one of those guys or similar, they need to have a plan B in place.

If they were at the point where they couldn't land one, I'd be bumping Gustafsson into the top four and using McBain or Diaz as a third pairing guy.

Komisarek, Allen and Hamrlik in their formative years had much stronger claims to being legit top-4 dmen than Grossmann since they all had more well-rounded games.

Grossmann is one-dimensional... what he does he does really well... but there's nothing else there.
- Tomahawk

I disagree somewhat. While he'll never be a big offensive producer, Gmann is not entirely one dimensional imo. His skating isn't bad at his size, he can move the puck decently and he can join the play, pinching for keep-ins and occasional shots. His offensive production and minutes are pretty much on par with your examples Komi and Allen. Even if only for his shut down defense and his poise, Grossmann is most definitely a solid, top 4 D man imo... I believe he once played on a top pairing in Dallas if not top 4.

I disagree somewhat. While he'll never be a big offensive producer, Gmann is not entirely one dimensional imo. His skating isn't bad at his size, he can move the puck decently and he can join the play, pinching for keep-ins and occasional shots. His offensive production and minutes are pretty much on par with your examples Komi and Allen. Even if only for his shut down defense and his poise, Grossmann is most definitely a solid, top 4 D man imo... I believe he once played on a top pairing in Dallas if not top 4.
- exlund

Being one-dimensional doesn't mean he's a liability at other aspects of the game. He can transition as well as any average NHL Defensemen and can get up and down the ice. But I think what is being said is he doesn't have blazing speed or offensive gifts that just have not developed. But if people are worried about Injury prone guys, I'd be more worried about Grossmann's knees in the the future than say, Meszaro's Shoulder.

I think Homer will have a few trades at the table

I think Homer will have a few trades at the table
- vejim

I think he's going to buy out both Bryzgalof and Briere. He's going to be extremely active at the draft. Let's hope he finds some willing partners.

Being one-dimensional doesn't mean he's a liability at other aspects of the game. He can transition as well as any average NHL Defensemen and can get up and down the ice. But I think what is being said is he doesn't have blazing speed or offensive gifts that just have not developed. But if people are worried about Injury prone guys, I'd be more worried about Grossmann's knees in the the future than say, Meszaro's Shoulder.
- flyler

Pretty much every defenseman can make a pass, or pinch in on a play, or skate the puck. It's about how efficient they are at doing it. And how fast they can do it. It's a speed game. You hear comments from Coaches like Darryl Sutter talk about wanting his team to play fast. Given enough time and space, an NHL defenseman can make a simple pass to an open Winger. And in the aspect of playing fast, defenseman such as Grossmann, Schenn, and even to an extent Coburn, other then his skating ability. Play a slow game in terms of puck transition. That's why especially with the furture loss of Timonen. And the past losses of Carle and Pronger. The Flyers need to upgrade in the puck moving department. So in the grand scheme of things. Grossmann is indeed a one dimensional player. His one dimension that he does well is the defensive aspects. In the transition end of the game, not much there. But he really wasn't brought in to add to the transition game. There's a number of reasons why the Flyers were such a poor 5 on 5 team last Season. And one of the biggest reasons why, is the lack of puck movement from the back end.

I think Homer will have a few trades at the table
- vejim

I'm pretty much expecting something to go down. I will not be shocked by anything.

Being one-dimensional doesn't mean he's a liability at other aspects of the game. He can transition as well as any average NHL Defensemen and can get up and down the ice. But I think what is being said is he doesn't have blazing speed or offensive gifts that just have not developed. But if people are worried about Injury prone guys, I'd be more worried about Grossmann's knees in the the future than say, Meszaro's Shoulder.
- flyler

Well, I think the one dimensional argument was being made by T-Hawk to imply he wasn't really a legit top 4 type. I think he clearly is.

I'm pretty much expecting something to go down. I will not be shocked by anything.
- MJL

I think if we've learned anything about Holmgren's reign as GM, it's to expect anything and everything. I'll be more surprised (pleasantly so) if they actually do stand pat.

I think if we've learned anything about Holmgren's reign as GM, it's to expect anything and everything. I'll be more surprised (pleasantly so) if they actually do stand pat.
- johndewar

I'd like to see them use the 11th pick and not trade it. Everything I read on here by those who have spent time looking at the players, says that the Flyers have a chance to draft a pretty good player. But I'd like to see them upgrade the defense somehow. That has to happen. One way or another. At some point in time, when the right move becomes available.

Well, I think the one dimensional argument was being made by T-Hawk to imply he wasn't really a legit top 4 type. I think he clearly is.
- exlund

Oh, he absolutely is, paired with the right partner.

In Ottawa, the Sens' top pairing is Erik Karlsson with...Marc Methot. All Methot is there to do is make simple plays, keep the net front clear, be the muscle to Karlsson's offensive brilliance.

Is Marc Methot truly a Top 4 defenseman? Sure is, based on where he is and what he's asked to do.

Nicklas Grossmann is a Top 4 defensemen if you want to run a shutdown defense pair as your second pair, which some coaches like to do and which Peter Laviolette clearly did with Braydon Coburn -- and that was effective for long stretches last year and some this year.

I also think Grossmann is a Top 4 defenseman if you paired him with an offensively gifted defenseman like, say, a Kevin Shattenkirk, etc., etc.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Grossmann, at all. You hope his knees hold up, you hope the concussion issues don't linger, you hope he plays. Kinda like everyone else, right?

Oh, he absolutely is, paired with the right partner.

In Ottawa, the Sens' top pairing is Erik Karlsson with...Marc Methot. All Methot is there to do is make simple plays, keep the net front clear, be the muscle to Karlsson's offensive brilliance.

Is Marc Methot truly a Top 4 defenseman? Sure is, based on where he is and what he's asked to do.

Nicklas Grossmann is a Top 4 defensemen if you want to run a shutdown defense pair as your second pair, which some coaches like to do and which Peter Laviolette clearly did with Braydon Coburn -- and that was effective for long stretches last year and some this year.

I also think Grossmann is a Top 4 defenseman if you paired him with an offensively gifted defenseman like, say, a Kevin Shattenkirk, etc., etc.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Grossmann, at all. You hope his knees hold up, you hope the concussion issues don't linger, you hope he plays. Kinda like everyone else, right?
- AllInForFlyers

Grossmann is a 2nd pair NHL defenseman. Based on his ability for the most part. And how he is used, and the minutes and situations he plays in. He's a top 4 defenseman.

Oh, he absolutely is, paired with the right partner.

In Ottawa, the Sens' top pairing is Erik Karlsson with...Marc Methot. All Methot is there to do is make simple plays, keep the net front clear, be the muscle to Karlsson's offensive brilliance.

Is Marc Methot truly a Top 4 defenseman? Sure is, based on where he is and what he's asked to do.

Nicklas Grossmann is a Top 4 defensemen if you want to run a shutdown defense pair as your second pair, which some coaches like to do and which Peter Laviolette clearly did with Braydon Coburn -- and that was effective for long stretches last year and some this year.

I also think Grossmann is a Top 4 defenseman if you paired him with an offensively gifted defenseman like, say, a Kevin Shattenkirk, etc., etc.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Grossmann, at all. You hope his knees hold up, you hope the concussion issues don't linger, you hope he plays. Kinda like everyone else, right?
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, that was essentially my point. He's not so "one-dimensional" as to be inept at skating, moving the puck and joining the play that he'd be relegated to a third pairing role. He's a big shut down type, but can hold his own outside the defensive zone. As you point out, even when paired with a defensive oriented player (Coburn), he's a bona-fide top 4.

I like Max Domi, but if both are there at 11, I'd go with Shinkaruk, just slightly. Domi's a very skilled kid, though and he plays with a chip on his shoulder. If he ended up a Flyer, I'd have no problems with it at all.

Agreed on Streit, although I'd be willing to go to two years.
- Jsaquella

It would be a tough call especially depending on who else will still be available.

It would be a tough call especially depending on who else will still be available.
- ob18

What's your best gut feeling on who the Flyers will wind up with? I realize it's kind of an impossible question to answer. Given how a draft can go.

Pretty much every defenseman can make a pass, or pinch in on a play, or skate the puck. It's about how efficient they are at doing it. And how fast they can do it. It's a speed game. You hear comments from Coaches like Darryl Sutter talk about wanting his team to play fast. Given enough time and space, an NHL defenseman can make a simple pass to an open Winger. And in the aspect of playing fast, defenseman such as Grossmann, Schenn, and even to an extent Coburn, other then his skating ability. Play a slow game in terms of puck transition. That's why especially with the furture loss of Timonen. And the past losses of Carle and Pronger. The Flyers need to upgrade in the puck moving department. So in the grand scheme of things. Grossmann is indeed a one dimensional player. His one dimension that he does well is the defensive aspects. In the transition end of the game, not much there. But he really wasn't brought in to add to the transition game. There's a number of reasons why the Flyers were such a poor 5 on 5 team last Season. And one of the biggest reasons why, is the lack of puck movement from the back end.
- MJL

While not on par with the best puck movers in the league, guys like Grossmann and Schenn have shown they can make quick and decisive puck moving plays of the zone (I have previously provided video evidence) and they are not strictly one dimensional. There are one dimensional D men, guys who are strictly stay at home, physical types with little to no ability to move the puck or join the play, and these are usually third liners/ #7s. Grossmann and Schenn do not fall into that category. BTW, as far as Matt Carle, while he's better at joining the play and getting involved offensively, there were plenty of times when he would hesitate, and be indecisive with the puck from deep in the defensive zone.

I'm not saying that the Flyers defense couldn't use an infusion of offensive, top puck moving talent, because they certainly can. I've been advocating for some time now, adding one or two offense-oriented defensemen to the mix (as you now agree with). Something I've taken issue with is those that pigeonhole or misrepresent the Flyers D as mostly immobile, slow, or unable to move the puck, and thus that is why the transition game suffers. I disagree to some extent, in that I believe most of the D, (Timonen, Gus, Gorssmann, Schenn, Mez, etc.), when healthy, don't have a mobility problem and they can move the puck out decently. I think the bigger issue affecting the transition game has been with the forwards not supporting the puck enough when it is in their own zone. There's often too big a gap between the D and forwards and this limits the transition options. Yes, we could use a Karlsson, Doughty, P-lo, type to skate the puck up the ice and make elite outlet, lead and stretch passes, which would mitigate some of these issues, but those guys are rare, and most teams have to make do without those elite types. In times when the Flyers forwards properly support the puck in their own zone and on the breakout, the transition game works, without need for adding a top puck mover...you yourself have mentioned the importance of forwards responsibilities in these aspects.

I agree that the Flyers forwards need to do a better job. Pretty much all of the Flyers current defenseman can make the routine plays.
- MJL

I also think the Coaching staff needs to do a better job with the breakout schemes.
- MJL

Make short quick high percentage passes on a center breakout. And a forward can skate the puck out more often, then headman to the breaking forward. I watch LA and Chicago doing it all game long to alleviate pressure. That will help the defenseman with less puck moving skills to get out of trouble.
- MJL

But again, at the same time, I advocate adding one or two proven offensive producers to the blueline. I'm not confident enough in Mez getting back to being who he was or Timonen's longevity, or that the good one amongst Coburn's multiple personalities will show up or that Gus will step up and produce or that Schenn will add to his point totals...basically the only guy that can be counted on to produce offensively with regularity is Timonen, and he's almost done. While I think they can "get by" if they play a more consistently disciplined, team-defense oriented style (as we saw down the stretch), it would behoove the Flyers to add more offensively dynamic players on the blueline.

Looks like Duncan Keith is going to get suspended. Hearing scheduled for today. Possibility that there could not be a suspension. But I don't see how. I think it should be 2 games. Real harsh, but you can't swing a stick at a guys head.

Looks like Duncan Keith is going to get suspended. Hearing scheduled for today. Possibility that there could not be a suspension. But I don't see how. I think it should be 2 games. Real harsh, but you can't swing a stick at a guys head.
- MJL

I think he'll get one but I've heard people around the league saying it'll only be a fine. His hearing was at 1pm. They're dragging their feet.

I think he'll get one but I've heard people around the league saying it'll only be a fine. His hearing was at 1pm. They're dragging their feet.
- mayorofangrytown

It wouldn't shock me if it was just a fine. But I think it deserves a suspension.

What's your best gut feeling on who the Flyers will wind up with? I realize it's kind of an impossible question to answer. Given how a draft can go.
- MJL

My list in no order would be

Nikita Zadorov
Rasmus Ristolainen
Bo Horvat
Ryan Pulock
Hunter Shinkaruk
Max Domi
Josh Morrissey (outside shot)
Curtis Lazar (outside shot)
Robert Hägg (outside shot)

My list in no order would be

Nikita Zadorov
Rasmus Ristolainen
Bo Horvat
Ryan Pulock
Hunter Shinkaruk
Max Domi
Josh Morrissey (outside shot)
Curtis Lazar (outside shot)
Robert Hägg (outside shot)
- ob18

I think they're going to be big and bold and move up into the top 5.

But I'm a dreamer.

My list in no order would be

Nikita Zadorov
Rasmus Ristolainen
Bo Horvat
Ryan Pulock
Hunter Shinkaruk
Max Domi
Josh Morrissey (outside shot)
Curtis Lazar (outside shot)
Robert Hägg (outside shot)
- ob18

So excluding the outside shot players. That's 2 defenseman and 3 forwards?

I think they're going to be big and bold and move up into the top 5.

But I'm a dreamer.
- mayorofangrytown

I don't even want to think of that cost.......

I think they're going to be big and bold and move up into the top 5.

But I'm a dreamer.
- mayorofangrytown

That is their MO. They go for the dramatic. And try to make a splash.

It wouldn't shock me if it was just a fine. But I think it deserves a suspension.
- MJL

Agreed. Can't swing your stick. It's the Conference Finals game 4, if it was the regular season it might be three, round one maybe two but here and now I think it's a game.