I really don't even know what you're arguing here.
None of it was "ok", but it's hypocritical to get in a twist over one thing (Keith's slash) without calling out why it happened (a dangerous slash to an exposed, sensitive body part).
Obviously, you're arguing from a personal POV. - johndewar
I have no personal love towards Carter (in fact, I'm more of a Keith fan). I'm just of a belief that it's never okay to take a wild slash at anyone. I'm not saying Carter gets no blame, I just think the reaction crossed the line.
I have no personal love towards Carter (in fact, I'm more of a Keith fan). I'm just of a belief that it's never okay to take a wild slash at anyone. I'm not saying Carter gets no blame, I just think the reaction crossed the line. - jmatchett383
I think both plays crossed the line, but I think I get where you're coming from.
I don't think you CAN overreact to a guy taking a wild slash at someone.
And I may be, but I don't think one warrants the other. If Carter slashes his hand, is Keith allowed to 2-hand him in the knee? - jmatchett383
So if Carter breaks a bone in Keith's hand, and Keith has to sit out the rest of the playoffs, that's just too bad? You don't think Keith should be protective of his hands?
Keith reacted immediately, swung and missed. He didn't skate up behind Carter, wind up and take a swing at his head ala McSorely. In other words, it wasn't premeditated, it was reactionary...in reaction to what Carter did. And Keith felt bad about it as soon as it happened and apologized.
I'm saying you're overreacting to what Keith did and under reacting to what Carter did. - johndewar
Personally, I don't think Jeff Carter did anything. In the reply I see Carter trying skating around Keith and taps Keith's hand/glove. So what? I can't even tell if Carter did it intentionally or not but so what if he did. Targeting the head for any reason is a no-no. It's world wide news. All the worst press in hockey history has come from some irresponsible player somehow attacking an opposing player's head...
Personally, I don't think Jeff Carter did anything. In the reply I see Carter trying skating around Keith and taps Keith's hand/glove. So what? I can't even tell if Carter did it intentionally or not but so what if he did. Targeting the head for any reason is a no-no. It's world wide news. All the worst press in hockey history has come from some irresponsible player somehow attacking an opposing player's head... - dingo8urbaby
You don't know if Keith intentionally targeted Carter's head anymore than you know if Carter intentionally "tapped" Keith's hand.
Which is fine, I think he deserved 2 minutes for it. I'm just asking what a reasonable retaliation for it is. - jmatchett383
Right. The thing is, I don't believe Keith "thought" about it at all...he just reacted to what happened, messed up, and felt bad immediately after.
And he gave LA 4 minutes of PP while Carter didn't even get a penalty.
Now, if it looked like Keith meant to hit Carter in the head, I wouldn't be defending him at all. And I get your point, wildly swinging your stick at someone is definitely a bad idea.
You don't know if Keith intentionally targeted Carter's head anymore than you know if Carter intentionally "tapped" Keith's hand. - johndewar
Doesn't matter what either player meant to do. What matters is the end result. Personally I don't see it as being a 5 game ban, but maybe 1 or 2 will suffice.
So if Carter breaks a bone in Keith's hand, and Keith has to sit out the rest of the playoffs, that's just too bad? You don't think Keith should be protective of his hands?
Keith reacted immediately, swung and missed. He didn't skate up behind Carter, wind up and take a swing at his head ala McSorely. In other words, it wasn't premeditated, it was reactionary...in reaction to what Carter did. And Keith felt bad about it as soon as it happened and apologized.
You're definitely skewing this too far one way. - wolfhounds
I know he felt bad, and I'm glad about that. You saw him apologizing multiple times. But I don't think Carter came down hard enough to break his hand (didn't wind up and swing). And he should be protective.
However, breaking a hand sucks. A stick to the head, with the full swing Keith had, can (potentially) kill a guy. A shot the hand and a shot to the head don't even come close. Why didn't Keith chop him back on the wrists? It was a stupid, reactionary play, and I feel it was stupid enough (especially given Keith's reputation as a hot-head) to warrant a game.
Right. The thing is, I don't believe Keith "thought" about it at all...he just reacted to what happened, messed up, and felt bad immediately after.
And he gave LA 4 minutes of PP while Carter didn't even get a penalty.
Now, if it looked like Keith meant to hit Carter in the head, I wouldn't be defending him at all. And I get your point, wildly swinging your stick at someone is definitely a bad idea. - wolfhounds
And that on-ice discipline should really be the end of it, as far as the league is concerned, IMO.
Doesn't matter what either player meant to do. What matters is the end result. Personally I don't see it as being a 5 game ban, but maybe 1 or 2 will suffice. - dingo8urbaby
I know he felt bad, and I'm glad about that. You saw him apologizing multiple times. But I don't think Carter came down hard enough to break his hand (didn't wind up and swing). And he should be protective.
However, breaking a hand sucks. A stick to the head, with the full swing Keith had, can (potentially) kill a guy. A shot the hand and a shot to the head don't even come close. Why didn't Keith chop him back on the wrists? It was a stupid, reactionary play, and I feel it was stupid enough (especially given Keith's reputation as a hot-head) to warrant a game. - jmatchett383
I have to agree completely. Is it okay for someone to scream at another based on a tiny disagreement and that someone who took the brunt of the yelling come over and stab/shoot the screamer?
I think that's it, we see it 2 different ways. I wasn't aware that Carter actually gave him that wrap initially. I still say it was a careless, reckless play that could have resulted in a long-term injury, and again, given Keith's repeat offender status, I think it warrants a game.
Personally, I don't think Jeff Carter did anything. In the reply I see Carter trying skating around Keith and taps Keith's hand/glove. So what? I can't even tell if Carter did it intentionally or not but so what if he did. Targeting the head for any reason is a no-no. It's world wide news. All the worst press in hockey history has come from some irresponsible player somehow attacking an opposing player's head... - dingo8urbaby
It's funny how Carter's swing was a 'tap' while Keith's was a headsman's swing.
And Carter definitely did it on purpose.
Keith reacted poorly. Hopefully nothing more happens.
I know he felt bad, and I'm glad about that. You saw him apologizing multiple times. But I don't think Carter came down hard enough to break his hand (didn't wind up and swing). And he should be protective.
However, breaking a hand sucks. A stick to the head, with the full swing Keith had, can (potentially) kill a guy. A shot the hand and a shot to the head don't even come close. Why didn't Keith chop him back on the wrists? It was a stupid, reactionary play, and I feel it was stupid enough (especially given Keith's reputation as a hot-head) to warrant a game. - jmatchett383
Fair enough. I feel different, but your PoV is solid.
Domi, Horvat, and Shinkaruk (in that order) are three guys I would be ecstatic to grab at #11. All 3 guys are going to be excellent NHLers.
Bill, how do you feel about Mirco Mueller, Robert Hagg, and Nikita Zadorov? Are these solid picks at #11 in your opinion?
I really, really like these 3 dmen. Quite frankly, of the six players mentioned in this post, I think I'd be most happy with Hagg. I think he's gonna be a flat out machine.
I disagree. Horvat, to me, is the new flavor of the month. He wasn't projected to go high (at least as high as some see him) and all of a sudden he's the hot thing. - jmatchett383
You may be right, I was just really impressed by his play in the playoffs this year. He really took his game to another level. That being said, I really do think all 3 will be very good NHL players and whatever teams lands any of them will be very happy.
Yup. A chop is how I would describe it. - wolfhounds
I would agree it's a mild chop. Keith isn't exactly new to the game. He's ahead in the series. What is he upset about? I think he's a sucker myself. Much like the Mike Richards hit on David Krejci, an entire series could turn around based on a play like that if he is suspended.
You may be right, I was just really impressed by his play in the playoffs this year. He really took his game to another level. That being said, I really do think all 3 will be very good NHL players and whatever teams lands any of them will be very happy. - BiggE
He may be, I honestly haven't seen enough of him. I'm just wary of players who don't get much talk and then go on a tear and get talked up for late season/playoff production (Fernando Pisani, Joel Ward, Ville Leino).
I have no personal love towards Carter (in fact, I'm more of a Keith fan). I'm just of a belief that it's never okay to take a wild slash at anyone. I'm not saying Carter gets no blame, I just think the reaction crossed the line. - jmatchett383
I'm with you. I'm pushing 50 and when I played (late 70's to late 80s) your own teammates would give you grief for swinging your stick. I was always told that if you feel someone took a cheap shot at you, challenge him to fight and handle it like a man.
It really saddens me the amount of nasty stick work that goes on in the NHL. Yes there have always been dirty players, but never to the degree that I'm seeing now. For whatever reason, many players seem to have little or no respect for their peers. For that reason, I wouldn't mind seeing them get rid of the instigator rule. Perhaps a guy like Matt Cooke thinks twice about running someone, if he knows that a guy like Shawn Thorton is now going punch his lights out.
