im fine with reevaluating the philosophy of the team and a lot of the components on the roster, but i just still cannot believe the trade malkin comments are still getting life from anyone who isnt trying to stir the pot. unless we are forced to financially or some ridiculous cap constraints, i just dont get how it helps the team. you wont get value back in the trade. you just wont. id be curious to see how many people would still be saying he was brutal in the series if a few of his posts had gone in.

i know the if game is a dangerous thing, but i actually dont think he had a horrible series all things considered. multiple chances per game. just nothing biting
- stayinthefnnet

The series against the Bruins was frustrating for everyone but Geno had at least two very good games against them. Anyone talking about a Malkin trade either is not a Pens fan or a complete idiot. We'll get him signed soon.

im fine with reevaluating the philosophy of the team and a lot of the components on the roster, but i just still cannot believe the trade malkin comments are still getting life from anyone who isnt trying to stir the pot. unless we are forced to financially or some ridiculous cap constraints, i just dont get how it helps the team. you wont get value back in the trade. you just wont. id be curious to see how many people would still be saying he was brutal in the series if a few of his posts had gone in.

i know the if game is a dangerous thing, but i actually dont think he had a horrible series all things considered. multiple chances per game. just nothing biting
- stayinthefnnet

I think you would be surprised at the return you got from Malkin. Look at what we got for Carter/Richards. We got a 4 players of our current top 6 in those trades. It could easily turn out to be 2 young current NHL players, a top end prospect and at least a few picks, definitely a 1st depending on how high.

I'm saying like, Blake Wheeler, Bogo, Burmistrov, and their 1st year and next. Now I'm not advocating trading him, but if the return was something that could stack your teams depth, there is no reason to say no just because its Malkin.

I think you would be surprised at the return you got from Malkin. Look at what we got for Carter/Richards. We got a 4 players of our current top 6 in those trades. It could easily turn out to be 2 young current NHL players, a top end prospect and at least a few picks, definitely a 1st depending on how high.

I'm saying like, Blake Wheeler, Bogo, Burmistrov, and their 1st year and next. Now I'm not advocating trading him, but if the return was something that could stack your teams depth, there is no reason to say no just because its Malkin.
- GirouxForTheShow

the problem with trading him IMO is that you just aren't going to get his value in a trade.

most of the teams in this league don't have the assets to get a good deal done for malkin. for those that do, most probably aren't willing to trade 5-6 key assets for one guy.

you hold on to malkin. there is mutual interest in resigning and that's what you do. letang is a goner though it would appear. his return should be pretty good.

I think the reasons we're not still playing are the PP and Rask. I think Bylsma mismanaged the PP overusing Letang and underutilising Martin and Iginla. If it came down to injuries, then that would explain Bylsma's stupid decisions. The series was always going to be really tight 5 on 5, our powerplay HAD to be one of our primary weapons. 2-3 PP goals and we might have been up 3-1 instead of out. If Rask had let in ANY soft goals (maybe that one Sutter goal counts) we would have been right in it also.

Overall, I don't know that Bylsma could get a much better roster for his system. If he couldn't pull it together with what we had, it may be time to move on from him. He had options to put out veterans or speedy youngsters. He had players that had won before. He had top 5 players in the forwards and the D. We killed every penalty. If he can't do it with this team, its unlikely to go any better next year.


POSITIVES:
Despres and Bennett both exceeded expectations. They should be playing in every situation next year. With a 6-8 week strength and conditioning program, Bennett will be sick next year. So impressed with his effort, especially without the puck. Can't wait to see how good his shot can be. Despres just needs to work on not tripping over the puck when it gets shot into his feet and continue to assert himself.

Martin played fantastic all year, he was a difference maker every game. Dupuis and Kunitz were amazing again. Sutter was as expected. Crosby is clearly back. The powerplay is fixed, although the Boston series left a bad taste. The penalty kill was fantastic in the playoffs. Vokoun did everything that could be expected of him.

We still have a lot of D prospects, one or two of whom may make the jump next year.


NEGATIVES:
Morrow turned out to be a dud after that first playoff game. He wasn't a difference maker at all and we lost someone who will be a number 1 D in few years and would have made the jump this year. I wonder if he was injured. Niskanen personally lost us more than one game in the playoffs and Glass was a rare spot on Shero's resume. Niskanen looked panicked every time he looked up ice with the puck on his stick.

Letang, Malkin and Neal continue to lack consistency in their defensive game. A stronger coach wouldn't allow this to have continued on for as long as it has. We lacked maturity for stretches in the playoffs. We shouldn't have to be reminded how to play every year. It was good to see Malkin finally back checking again after the Islanders series, he still looked like he wasn't making great decisions all the time though. I'm sick of seeing Letang checked into the boards down below the faceoff dot in the offensive zone. Neal continues to be streaky offensively and defensively.

Orpik has clearly lost a step or 2, though he was better as the playoffs went on. Fleury, obviously, needs a new goalie coach and/or psychologist. Engelland showed he is clearly a #7 D and nothing more.


DEADLINE:
If Letang wants more than 6-6.5, he should be traded for a 1st and a top 4 D +. Dupuis is worth 3/3, Cooke is worth 2.5/3. Niskanen and Glass should be traded for anything or nothing. Morrow and Iginla can be let go. I don't think Malkin is worth more than 8.7 even if it works out that he's making less than Crosby that way. I think Fleury will be kept because we don't really have a better option.

im fine with reevaluating the philosophy of the team and a lot of the components on the roster, but i just still cannot believe the trade malkin comments are still getting life from anyone who isnt trying to stir the pot. unless we are forced to financially or some ridiculous cap constraints, i just dont get how it helps the team. you wont get value back in the trade. you just wont. id be curious to see how many people would still be saying he was brutal in the series if a few of his posts had gone in.

i know the if game is a dangerous thing, but i actually dont think he had a horrible series all things considered. multiple chances per game. just nothing biting
- stayinthefnnet

Not only was he not horrible, he was one of their best.

I think the reasons we're not still playing are the PP and Rask. I think Bylsma mismanaged the PP overusing Letang and underutilising Martin and Iginla. If it came down to injuries, then that would explain Bylsma's stupid decisions. The series was always going to be really tight 5 on 5, our powerplay HAD to be one of our primary weapons. 2-3 PP goals and we might have been up 3-1 instead of out. If Rask had let in ANY soft goals (maybe that one Sutter goal counts) we would have been right in it also.

Overall, I don't know that Bylsma could get a much better roster for his system. If he couldn't pull it together with what we had, it may be time to move on from him. He had options to put out veterans or speedy youngsters. He had players that had won before. He had top 5 players in the forwards and the D. We killed every penalty. If he can't do it with this team, its unlikely to go any better next year.


POSITIVES:
Despres and Bennett both exceeded expectations. They should be playing in every situation next year. With a 6-8 week strength and conditioning program, Bennett will be sick next year. So impressed with his effort, especially without the puck. Can't wait to see how good his shot can be. Despres just needs to work on not tripping over the puck when it gets shot into his feet and continue to assert himself.

Martin played fantastic all year, he was a difference maker every game. Dupuis and Kunitz were amazing again. Sutter was as expected. Crosby is clearly back. The powerplay is fixed, although the Boston series left a bad taste. The penalty kill was fantastic in the playoffs. Vokoun did everything that could be expected of him.

We still have a lot of D prospects, one or two of whom may make the jump next year.


NEGATIVES:
Morrow turned out to be a dud after that first playoff game. He wasn't a difference maker at all and we lost someone who will be a number 1 D in few years and would have made the jump this year. I wonder if he was injured. Niskanen personally lost us more than one game in the playoffs and Glass was a rare spot on Shero's resume. Niskanen looked panicked every time he looked up ice with the puck on his stick.

Letang, Malkin and Neal continue to lack consistency in their defensive game. A stronger coach wouldn't allow this to have continued on for as long as it has. We lacked maturity for stretches in the playoffs. We shouldn't have to be reminded how to play every year. It was good to see Malkin finally back checking again after the Islanders series, he still looked like he wasn't making great decisions all the time though. I'm sick of seeing Letang checked into the boards down below the faceoff dot in the offensive zone. Neal continues to be streaky offensively and defensively.

Orpik has clearly lost a step or 2, though he was better as the playoffs went on. Fleury, obviously, needs a new goalie coach and/or psychologist. Engelland showed he is clearly a #7 D and nothing more.


DEADLINE:
If Letang wants more than 6-6.5, he should be traded for a 1st and a top 4 D +. Dupuis is worth 3/3, Cooke is worth 2.5/3. Niskanen and Glass should be traded for anything or nothing. Morrow and Iginla can be let go. I don't think Malkin is worth more than 8.7 even if it works out that he's making less than Crosby that way. I think Fleury will be kept because we don't really have a better option.
- cygnus41

Nice assesment cygnus. I just would like to bring Iginla back for the right price..and perhaps a motivated/fit Morrow for Glass' type of money. Murray too.

Ill repost this for people who can see how the numbers could work over the next two years
Salary if's may be Cooke and Dupuis... in which case Jussi becomes completely expendable if need be otherwise he can fit. Eaton's name is only in there as a name, I don't know if he'll back. Iginla and Murray are if's too, but I think they come back. Niskanen, Jeffrey and Kennedy will be traded... Hopefully Glass can be

2013-14 Roster
FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Chris Kunitz ($3.725m)
Beau Bennett ($0.9m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.7m) / Jarome Iginla ($3.0m)
Matt Cooke ($2.20m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Pascal Dupuis ($2.4m)
Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Mark Eaton ($0.725m) / Douglas Murray ($2.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)

Cap Space about 165k

2014-15 is a whole other ball of wax:
Letang goes to 7mil per, Malkin 9.7. I would not explore anymore $$$ for Letang, I would rather try 2 shutdown D for that price and let Martin, Despres, Harrington and Pouliot maybe later handling the transition game. Sutter will have to stay at 3.0 mil, would move him otherwise, hasn't justified more yet. Fleury and Martin are UFA after this year, their 10 Mil in cap space is vital for Bennett post ELC. Orpik and Kunitz are UFA and could be resigned to slightly less deals... I picked Kuni because Orpik's money could be spent on Despres post ELC. Everyone says all these deals can't be made and there probably will be some that don't but here are some numbers that could work. I do think Fleury will get another shot with a goalie coach.... however the 2013 season will be his last chance, 2014 may be a stretch for him to be playing as a Pen, his dollars as you can see could really be stretched for the 3rd or 4th lines, you could see the Pens going cheap on a goalie this year or exploring trading James Neal if his streaky production continues.

2014-15 Roster
FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.700m) / Chris Kunitz ($3.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($2.4m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.70m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Matt Cooke ($2.250m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.00m) / Someone ($1.000m)
Someone ($0.725m) / Joe Vitale ($0.750m) / Someone ($0.675m)
Anton Zlobin ($0.608m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($2.75m) / Kris Letang ($7.000m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Scott Harrington ($0.911m)
Olli Maata ($0.840m) / Douglas Murray ($2.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.750m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Eric Hartzell ($0.874m)

Cap space is about 700k

Some of the choices are there for a reason and others are just fill ins as numbers.

the only good thing about trading letang other than the return of hopefully a low 1st is the prospects in the system. Despres can take over for letang immediately. and then you have maata, poliout, Harrington, roupp all waiting. If they trade nisk as well, then they still have burtuzzo he showed he has a nice shot at the same time can be physical. and there is always engelland back there...

with trading flower it gets riskier unless the resign hartzell and feel he can be a starter under Vokun... I don't think zatgoff and theissen as nhl'ers...

I think iggy will stay if they fire bylsma... bc the new coach will be putting 12-87-19 or 9 on a line together while 14-71-18 get reunited...

Not only was he not horrible, he was one of their best.
- Gunner Staal

true. although that wasnt saying much that series. still. i know the whole pointless thing is kind of staring everyone in the face, but at the risk of sounding like an extreme cop out, he could have easily had a few big goals in that series if not for cruel iron and big saves

I think you would be surprised at the return you got from Malkin. Look at what we got for Carter/Richards. We got a 4 players of our current top 6 in those trades. It could easily turn out to be 2 young current NHL players, a top end prospect and at least a few picks, definitely a 1st depending on how high.

I'm saying like, Blake Wheeler, Bogo, Burmistrov, and their 1st year and next. Now I'm not advocating trading him, but if the return was something that could stack your teams depth, there is no reason to say no just because its Malkin.
- GirouxForTheShow

honestly, even if that was on the table, i dont exactly jump at that. first rounders are definitely nice, but i dont view them being top 3 picks from winnipeg. i like wheeler a lot, but he doesnt come close to replacing malkin. bogo is a nice piece, but still doesnt overcome the void in my mind. and burmistrov is more of a reclamation project at this point

true. although that wasnt saying much that series. still. i know the whole pointless thing is kind of staring everyone in the face, but at the risk of sounding like an extreme cop out, he could have easily had a few big goals in that series if not for cruel iron and big saves
- stayinthefnnet

You can't fake creating the time and space he found in the Bruins neutral zone in Game 3.

I think you would be surprised at the return you got from Malkin. Look at what we got for Carter/Richards. We got a 4 players of our current top 6 in those trades. It could easily turn out to be 2 young current NHL players, a top end prospect and at least a few picks, definitely a 1st depending on how high.

I'm saying like, Blake Wheeler, Bogo, Burmistrov, and their 1st year and next. Now I'm not advocating trading him, but if the return was something that could stack your teams depth, there is no reason to say no just because its Malkin.
- GirouxForTheShow

Not for nothing but those 2 players are champions now and then were conference finalists. The Flyers, a non playoff team.

Not for nothing but those 2 players are champions now and then were conference finalists. The Flyers, a non playoff team.
- Gunner Staal

and also, while they are definitely good players, i never exactly viewed them as generational. granted, the flyers still got a hell of a return for both

and also, while they are definitely good players, i never exactly viewed them as generational. granted, the flyers still got a hell of a return for both
- stayinthefnnet

Again, the Malkin discussion is a good barometer on sanity.

Again, the Malkin discussion is a good barometer on sanity.
- Gunner Staal

fair enough. i realize being desperate for something to take the mind off the series. im there as well. but lunacy isnt the solution

fair enough. i realize being desperate for something to take the mind off the series. im there as well. but lunacy isnt the solution
- stayinthefnnet

The lunatic is in the hall, the lunatics are in my hall

The lunatic is in the hall, the lunatics are in my hall
- Rayven

hush. you have hockey still

http://thehockeywriters.c...nguins-black-swan-bruins/

he's a good writer

http://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-black-swan-bruins/

he's a good writer
- Deadstar

Probably the best Penguins guy out there.

The real trade to discuss is Letang. if not over the summer. By the trade deadline, IMO

The real trade to discuss is Letang. if not over the summer. By the trade deadline, IMO
- ryman1566

Letang either signs by the start of the season or he's traded. Can't take the chance of him getting a season ending injury and losing him for nothing. He had a rough playoffs (still leading d in scoring I think), but there will be plenty of interest and the return will still be very good.

All you need to know about how teams value offensive D is Sarge got 10 mil from Dallas....

Letang either signs by the start of the season or he's traded. Can't take the chance of him getting a season ending injury and losing him for nothing. He had a rough playoffs (still leading d in scoring I think), but there will be plenty of interest and the return will still be very good.

All you need to know about how teams value offensive D is Sarge got 10 mil from Dallas....
- madmike71

if 5 buys you gonch, how in the hell can letang for 6 be entertained

The real trade to discuss is Letang. if not over the summer. By the trade deadline, IMO
- ryman1566

letang is either going to be under contract with a cap hit under 7 million or he will be on another team.

so pretty much he'll be on another team.

im actually starting a pretty interesting examination at the final 4 teams in the playoffs since 2008.

im looking at the cap hits of the players to find out the structure of these teams.
Things I'm looking at:

goalie cap hit
lowest cap hit of dmen
average cap hit of dmen
highest cap hit of dmen
lowest cap hit of forward
average cap hit of forward
highest cap hit of forward
# of players making more than 6 million
# of players making less than 1 million
# of players on rookie contracts

I think these will be the best indicators. if you guys have any other fields that you think would be helpful, let me know. im hopeful I can somehow share this excel sheet once im done.

im actually starting a pretty interesting examination at the final 4 teams in the playoffs since 2008.

im looking at the cap hits of the players to find out the structure of these teams.
Things I'm looking at:

goalie cap hit
lowest cap hit of dmen
average cap hit of dmen
highest cap hit of dmen
lowest cap hit of forward
average cap hit of forward
highest cap hit of forward
# of players making more than 6 million
# of players making less than 1 million
# of players on rookie contracts

I think these will be the best indicators. if you guys have any other fields that you think would be helpful, let me know. im hopeful I can somehow share this excel sheet once im done.


- SuperHenderson13

A lot of the players on rookie contracts have been stars