A high celiling as far as an offensive player. So if B Schenn becomes a 75 pt offensive player, and a 30 goal scorer. And Couturier becomes a 20 goal 60 pt player, as well as being a Selke level forward. Who's the better player?
- MJL

Based on your numbers, Couturier. What about:

Schenn - 35/80
Couts - 20/55
Laughton - 15/40

I'm not just comparing Schenn vs. Couturier, I'm thinking of the overall makeup of the roster. I prefer Schenn at center. I'd like a 2nd line that can take pressure off of G, and am willing to have a 3rd line more focused as checking line with Laughton if need be.

Hey, don't get me wrong, if they could trade Laughton for a top-tier 2 way defenseman, I'd willingly keep G-Schenn-Coots, give Couturier 2 wingers like a younger gagne and read that can score, and roll three scoring lines.

All of my roster scenarios require upgrading the D though.

I disagree a defensive center is hard to fill. Just speaking from a defensive side, Zubrus is equal to or better then Couturier currently. Take potential out of the equasion and Zubrus would probally put up better numbers offensively and defensively. What Couturier brings to the table today, is easily replaced... you cant keep hoping for tomorrow.
- youarewrong

I disagree that Zubrus is better defensively. And it's not about just a defensive Center. It's a potential Selke level Center that can also provide offense, and can match up against any line, and play in any situation. That is a hard player to find.

Personally.. I take the guy who plays the better two way game 10 times a week
- jak521

Sure. I'm just saying the ceiling for both Couts and Brayden is high.

Regarding poor defensive play last season, Simmonds, G, Jake, Schenn, etc. were all pretty bad.

The asked NHL scouts to reasses last year's draft and where they think that the player taken last year, would be taken if that draft was done over. Laughton moved up to the 10th pick. So It might be just a tad early to state that they wasted a draft pick on Laughton.
- MJL

i think i heard the same thing

He went 12th

http://www.thehockeynews....erank-2012-NHL-draft.html
- mayorofangrytown

Lol @ Koekkoek and Dumba.

Revisit in another year and Reinhart and Maatta will probably be dropping like stones as well.

Lidstrom is one of the best players to ever play the game. Huge difference there.
- jak521

I think the comparison still works... Is having Couturier more important then having Yandle... to is having Datsyuk more important then having Lidstrom...

Couturier is no Datsyuk and Yandle is no Lidstrom... Datsyuk is one of the best 2 way forwards and he still wasn't as important as one of the best 2 way d-men.

Maybe we should have allowed Peter Forsberg to play before trading both him and the farm for Eric Lindros. I'm not saying Scott Laughton doesn't have a chance to still become a good player but we have holes.
- dingo8urbaby

They didn't trade Forsberg because they felt he wasn't going to meet his potential.

Based on your numbers, Couturier. What about:

Schenn - 35/80
Couts - 20/55
Laughton - 15/40

I'm not just comparing Schenn vs. Couturier, I'm thinking of the overall makeup of the roster. I prefer Schenn at center. I'd like a 2nd line that can take pressure off of G, and am willing to have a 3rd line more focused as checking line with Laughton if need be.

Hey, don't get me wrong, if they could trade Laughton for a top-tier 2 way defenseman, I'd willingly keep G-Schenn-Coots, give Couturier 2 wingers like a younger gagne and read that can score, and roll three scoring lines.

All of my roster scenarios require upgrading the D though.
- TheGreat28

Couturier has the most potential in my opinion. Couturier if he meets his potential, will be the player to take the pressure off of Giroux.

They didn't trade Forsberg because they felt he wasn't going to meet his potential.
- MJL

I never said they did. I'm saying we have a hole and you have to give to get.

I never said they did. I'm saying we have a hole and you have to give to get.
- dingo8urbaby

Buy high, sell low... love it.

You guys are throwing around a lot of names with big point numbers for what Couturier could be. I find most of them head scratching.

I'll be really happy if he becomes Guy Carbonneau.
- mayorofangrytown

I've been comparing him to Carbonneau since his rookie season. I see Couturier as a guy that will eventual fill out to 210-215 lbs, anchor the 2nd line putting up 20-25 goals and 55-65 points, will be in the running for the Selke trophy year in and year out, will be your #1 pk forward and someone will also play on the 2nd pp unit.

There is no way I move a guy like that for Yandle, Edler Buff etc... If you are including him in a deal for Weber or Pietrangelo fine, if not keep him and enjoy watching him develop and succeed.

I think the comparison still works... Is having Couturier more important then having Yandle... to is having Datsyuk more important then having Lidstrom...

Couturier is no Datsyuk and Yandle is no Lidstrom... Datsyuk is one of the best 2 way forwards and he still wasn't as important as one of the best 2 way d-men.
- youarewrong

We've really gone off the reservation in our trade talk speculation...

How about this for speculative, as opposed to Couts and Yandle, is Malkin more important than having Letang?

Ok, Was Datsyuk more important then Lidstrom?
- youarewrong

I wasn't aware that Lidstrom's playing.

OMG, that's right! Gervais is signed for next season. HAHAHAHAHA

- FlyersGrace

You had to remind me...

That connection is overblown. Jones actually spent almost the entirety of his amateur playing days in the Dallas area. He was also born in Texas. The Stars probably have a stronger claim to him than the Avs, I would think.

Plus, Roy's connection to Mac, having seen what's he's capable of first-hand, would easily trump any feel-good ties to Sakic, if they felt Mac was BAP.
- Tomahawk

Except Roy's preference is only part of the equation. I think there has been too much made of that in the press. It feels almost like a Red Herring put out there to make Jones's selection less a sure thing. But it should be.

Popeye Jones's story is only part of it. The Real reason is a hockey reason. If the Avs are taking someone they want or need, it should be Jones. Johnson is still struggling a bit and they need some help on D. Meanwhile they are deep with 3 young Centers and some great Wingers. And how often does a player like Jones show up.

He went 12th

http://www.thehockeynews....erank-2012-NHL-draft.html
- mayorofangrytown

This is a really interesting article. Does anyone subscribe? I'd be curious about the 2011 rankings. According to the teaser, Dougie is in the top 5. Wonder where Couturier ends up?

Would be interesting to see the opinion of actual scouts given this current topic of Couturier's value from our view point.

Lol @ Koekkoek and Dumba.

Revisit in another year and Reinhart and Maatta will probably be dropping like stones as well.
- Tomahawk

Koekkoek I get. Wasn't he a reach at the time? I'm curious though why you think Reinhart or Maata will drop.

The other thing is that I think, as many here have said, defenseman develop more slowly so this type of re-ranking is more valid 3-4 years out then 1-2.

This is a really interesting article. Does anyone subscribe? I'd be curious about the 2011 rankings. According to the teaser, Dougie is in the top 5. Wonder where Couturier ends up?

Would be interesting to see the opinion of actual scouts given this current topic of Couturier's value from our view point.
- TheGreat28

http://www.thehockeynews....the-2011-first-round.html

Personally.. I take the guy who plays the better two way game 10 times a week
- jak521

Really its finding the balance. Your need 2 way players, you need offensive players, and defensive players on offense... Just like you need defensive defenseman and offensive defenseman.

You cant value one over the other in reality.

http://www.thehockeynews....the-2011-first-round.html
- bradleyc4

They drop Huberdeau?

http://www.thehockeynews....the-2011-first-round.html
- bradleyc4

Thanks. Couturier is 4th. I may owe MJL an apology

Couturier has the most potential in my opinion. Couturier if he meets his potential, will be the player to take the pressure off of Giroux.
- MJL

Potential is not a measurable quantity. Really scouts look at what a player can do and guess if he can learn more at the NHL level...

I think potential is used too much. I like the word talent better.

Really its finding the balance. Your need 2 way players, you need offensive players, and defensive players on offense... Just like you need defensive defenseman and offensive defenseman.

You cant value one over the other in reality.
- youarewrong

Nope. Schenn's going to be a much more physical player than Couts, and call me crazy, but you need a player like that in hockey. I see Schenn, assuming he keeps putting the work in, becoming a Dustin Brown-type player, and likely better.

Potential is not a measurable quantity. Really scouts look at what a player can do and guess if he can learn more at the NHL level...

I think potential is used too much. I like the word talent better.
- youarewrong

It is so. It's measured from 1/2 to 5 stars colored either white, green, yellow, or red.

Really its finding the balance. Your need 2 way players, you need offensive players, and defensive players on offense... Just like you need defensive defenseman and offensive defenseman.

You cant value one over the other in reality.
- youarewrong

Sure you can. Just because you need different types of players, doesn't make them all equally valuable. For example, puck moving defensemen are more highly valued than defensive defensemen.