Yea, but we got back Ryan Dingle too...
- aightwebang17

Haha I stand corrected...

In fairness to Holmgren, they were a little closer then than they are now. Still wouldn't have done either trade.
- TheGreat28

I'm a firm believer that Pronger put us over the top. I feel that Pronger deal was necessary. The Carter and Richards deal were boarder line for me. I love the exchange but there seems to be more of a need for Richards and Carter now on this team, then ever. If we had the chance to trade back, I couldn't give up Voracek or Simmonds but Carter and Richards are NHL players. Both are clearly better players then Couturier and Schenn right now.

The question is, can you change the defense through trades that doesn't effect that line-up... Technically yes.

I can see a secenario where the Flyers draft Ristolinian, Pullock, or Zardov. Sign Streit, and trade Coburn.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Couturier-Talbot
Raffl-Laughton-Rinaldo

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Meszaros
Grossmann-Gustefsson/Draft pick.

Mason
UFA goalie

So fundamentally the defense is differnet. You have a puck mover and defensive guy on each pairing. If the Draft pick works out, and Gus keeps playing well you can trade Meszaros in season as well. To me it's not that terrible. As long as you land Streit and a decent goalie.

Yes Couturier has. So you see Schenn also having potential to be a Selke level defensive forward?
- MJL

They compare Schenns game to Mike Richards... Wasn't Richards ever a Selke finalist?

Yes Couturier has. So you see Schenn also having potential to be a Selke level defensive forward?
- MJL

No, of course not. But then again, the over-whelming majority of NHL forwards aren't ever going to be finalists, let alone Selke winners. So what does that mean?

My only knock on Couterier is his skating. Is it realistic to think his skating will improve? Or is what you see is what you get at this point?

Minus Briere and Bryzgalov (Also minus any fantasies we may have) our line up looks pretty good. We just need to add. I'll assume Gagne gets re-sign because I see no reason not to...

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Gagne-Schenn-Sommonds
Talbot-Couturier-Read
Rosehill-Laughton-Rinaldo

Timonen-Schenn
Grossman-Coburn
Gustafsson-Meszaros

Mason

My only knock on Couterier is his skating. Is it realistic to think his skating will improve? Or is what you see is what you get at this point?
- pharcyde

I have more of an issue with his strength. He'll get stronger though.

I'm a firm believer that Pronger put us over the top. I feel that Pronger deal was necessary. The Carter and Richards deal were boarder line for me. I love the exchange but there seems to be more of a need for Richards and Carter now on this team, then ever. If we had the chance to trade back, I couldn't give up Voracek or Simmonds but Carter and Richards are NHL players. Both are clearly better players then Couturier and Schenn right now.
- dingo8urbaby

I was just about to write that I would take the Richards trade back, but thinking about it, Simmonds and Schenn... If we had Richards we would still be talking about trading Couturier for a defenseman....

They compare Schenns game to Mike Richards... Wasn't Richards ever a Selke finalist?
- youarewrong

That would be pretty sweet. And given time, who knows how Schenn develops. That's the point.

And I'm not trying to argue one player is far superior to the other, or we should package one or both in a trade...I want us to hold on to both because I think they are going to be very good players sooner rather than later.

I was just about to write that I would take the Richards trade back, but thinking about it, Simmonds and Schenn... If we had Richards we would still be talking about trading Couturier for a defenseman....
- youarewrong

Actually I think I would take the Carter trade back first. I think the Flyers are only really missing an offensive puck mover and a sniper. I really did like Richards but I like his return more then the Carter return. Simmonds, B.Schenn and Gagne are my favourite Flyers currently.

Minus Briere and Bryzgalov (Also minus any fantasies we may have) our line up looks pretty good. We just need to add. I'll assume Gagne gets re-sign because I see no reason not to...

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Gagne-Schenn-Sommonds
Talbot-Couturier-Read
Rosehill-Laughton-Rinaldo

Timonen-Schenn
Grossman-Coburn
Gustafsson-Meszaros

Mason
- dingo8urbaby

The defense needs to be addressed. They are too slow, with not enough puck movement skills.

They compare Schenns game to Mike Richards... Wasn't Richards ever a Selke finalist?
- youarewrong

I have not seen any NHL analyst, or read anything from any talent prognosticator that suggests that B Schenn will be a Selke level Forward.

The defense needs to be addressed. They are too slow, with not enough puck movement skills.
- youarewrong

I don't think there's enough offense either.

No, of course not. But then again, the over-whelming majority of NHL forwards aren't ever going to be finalists, let alone Selke winners. So what does that mean?
- wolfhounds

I terms of this discussion, it means a lot. And that raw ability has to be weighed in the comparison.

The defense needs to be addressed. They are too slow, with not enough puck movement skills.
- youarewrong

Honestly, I don't see a huge discrepancy in foot-speed and puck-moving ability between that group and, say, the Rangers' group or Boston's group or the Devils' group.

With improvements in goaltending and team-wide defensive consistency, I don't see that blueline being an impediment as-is. Could it be better? Sure. But it's not the anchor that it's been made out to be.

My only knock on Couterier is his skating. Is it realistic to think his skating will improve? Or is what you see is what you get at this point?
- pharcyde

I think it's what you see is what you get. But I don't think his skating is an issue.

I'm a firm believer that Pronger put us over the top. I feel that Pronger deal was necessary. The Carter and Richards deal were boarder line for me. I love the exchange but there seems to be more of a need for Richards and Carter now on this team, then ever. If we had the chance to trade back, I couldn't give up Voracek or Simmonds but Carter and Richards are NHL players. Both are clearly better players then Couturier and Schenn right now.
- dingo8urbaby

Simmonds and Voracek are to this team what Carter and Richards are to LA. Not to mention they are younger. And then we got Schenn and Couturier. Not to mention 2 picks, one that is Nick Cousins and the other used to acquire Grossman.

I see why the trade is made, and with patience I really like our team.

Honestly, I don't see a huge discrepancy in foot-speed and puck-moving ability between that group and, say, the Rangers' group or Boston's group or the Devils' group.

With improvements in goaltending and team-wide defensive consistency, I don't see that blueline being an impediment as-is. Could it be better? Sure. But it's not the anchor that it's been made out to be.
- Tomahawk

I would completely disagree. I can see the Devils group, but definitely not Boston and the Rangers. Rangers have Del Zotto and McDonaugh. Boston has Chara, Seidenberg, and the addition of Krug has added to it. It's one of th biggest team weaknesses on the Flyers. And a big reason why they were a poor ES team.

I didn't like the Carter trade at all when it went down.
Voracek seemed to be an underachiever and the the 7th pick was a complete unknown.
Carter was worth more then this in my eyes, even though you could argue that he too was somewhat of an underachiever given his size and skill and abilities.

In retrospect it looks better now.
- Marc D

Voracek isn't worth very much less than Carter by himself now and Columbus would be hard-pressed to even find the value to get Jake and Coots back now if they tried. This was a trade victory.

That would be pretty sweet. And given time, who knows how Schenn develops. That's the point.

And I'm not trying to argue one player is far superior to the other, or we should package one or both in a trade...I want us to hold on to both because I think they are going to be very good players sooner rather than later.
- wolfhounds

I'd prefer that they hold onto both also. Just don't know if that's going to happen.

I have not seen any NHL analyst, or read anything from any talent prognosticator that suggests that B Schenn will be a Selke level Forward.
- MJL

It's a 7 degrees/Kevin Bacon thing. Schenn has often been compared to Mike Richards. Richards was a Selke finalist in 2009 and is often mentioned in those regards, ergo Schenn has the potential to be a Selke finalist.

I don't completely agree with the conclusion, but that's the train of thought I imagine.

It's a 7 degrees/Kevin Bacon thing. Schenn has often been compared to Mike Richards. Richards was a Selke finalist in 2009 and is often mentioned in those regards, ergo Schenn has the potential to be a Selke finalist.

I don't completely agree with the conclusion, but that's the train of thought I imagine.
- TheGreat28

I think the comparison is more about being similar in terms of style of play, as far as being physical.

I would completely disagree. I can see the Devils group, but definitely not Boston and the Rangers. Rangers have Del Zotto and McDonaugh. Boston has Chara, Seidenberg, and the addition of Krug has added to it. It's one of th biggest team weaknesses on the Flyers. And a big reason why they were a poor ES team.
- MJL

Timonen-Schenn
Meszaros-Coburn
Grossman-Gus
Gervais

That's 22.4 million plus whatever Gus signs for just in D. So you're either hoping Gus continues his strong play, or a move has to be made no?

If there was a trade to be made for player would you guys rather throw in this years 1st (11th overall) or Scott Laughton to make the deal happen?