Hard choice, seeing that we have no idea who is going to be selected with the 11th pick. But I have this gut feeling, not based on anything concrete. That Laughton is going to be more then originally thought.
- MJL

This gets back to my point about never seeming to want to trade that forward for a defenseman. And I'm not trying to pick on you per se MJL, but you're now saying that you would be hesitant to give up Laughton. And I understand your rationale, but...

Say Cousins makes the team next year as a 3rd line forward and somehow pots 20, then he'll be "untouchable".

Might as well just draft the d-man at this point.

One of them has to be going somewhere. Probably only Coburn has any value, and he's the one I wouldn't trade. That's unfortunately the problem.
- TheGreat28

You know... I don't really care which direction they take... Make big moves this off-season, or just slightly adjust the defense. But they have to do one or the other, no inbetween. You cant trade Couts for someone without getting some UFA replacements. You cant keep couts without making ufa adjustments on defense.

Personally I want the fireworks. I want them to move up in the draft and get a top 5 guy. I want them to get a 2-way defender, I want some big moves, because I dont think this team will be good enough as is, even 3-4 years when everyone has "developed".

Ray Charles is blind.
Love is blind.
God is love.
Ray Charles is God
- GirouxForTheShow

God is blind?

Hard choice, seeing that we have no idea who is going to be selected with the 11th pick. But I have this gut feeling, not based on anything concrete. That Laughton is going to be more then originally thought.
- MJL

I have this feeling too, but doesn't that then make it easier to trade Couturier?

God is blind?
- jmatchett383

No Ray Charles is.

My only knock on Couterier is his skating. Is it realistic to think his skating will improve? Or is what you see is what you get at this point?
- pharcyde

He can certainly use some improvement on his skating which was a knock since before he was drafted, but over time it can be improved.

As a 6'4" 20 year old, it'll still take a little time to fully get his legs under him. I'm guessing he has been working on that part of his game just as hard as the other areas.

I'm looking for that, as well as his strength, to be less of a factor within the next few years.

given the cost of UFA offensively skilled D men or trades for the same, I am praying for the quick development of Ghost, the #11 pick this year and Gusty to continue to improve.
- Marc D

I agree, but I'll add the caveat that Ghost and Gus are both smallish guys that probably max out as 2nd pairing guys. #11 needs to be a little bigger but higher ceiling. Then with Coburn, Schenn and maybe Grossmann you could probably carry both Ghost and Gus.

This gets back to my point about never seeming to want to trade that forward for a defenseman. And I'm not trying to pick on you per se MJL, but you're now saying that you would be hesitant to give up Laughton. And I understand your rationale, but...

Say Cousins makes the team next year as a 3rd line forward and somehow pots 20, then he'll be "untouchable".

Might as well just draft the d-man at this point.
- TheGreat28

I didn't say anything about giving up Laughton, nor being hesitant to trade him. So I don't know where you're getting that from. In fact I have made numerous posts stating that I'd be willing to give up B Schenn in the right deal. So I don't think you understand my rationale. I'd be in favor of trading any player in the right deal, including Couturier.

This gets back to my point about never seeming to want to trade that forward for a defenseman. And I'm not trying to pick on you per se MJL, but you're now saying that you would be hesitant to give up Laughton. And I understand your rationale, but...

Say Cousins makes the team next year as a 3rd line forward and somehow pots 20, then he'll be "untouchable".

Might as well just draft the d-man at this point.
- TheGreat28

And maybe we trade Couturier for Buff, Buff plays horribly while Couturier scores 25/36/60 and wins a Selke. Should have kept the forward.

But really, Cousins scoring 20 goals (which assumes he plays most/all of the season in the NHL) is a pretty long shot.

I have this feeling too, but doesn't that then make it easier to trade Couturier?
- youarewrong

I'd trade Couturier in the right deal, regardless of what Laughton turns out to be.

I think that was one of the biggest issues with when Carter was here. Unrealistic expectations. Carter is a very good player. But he does not have near the talent level and ability that Stamkos has. Although Carter is a very good goal scorer, he is not on Stamko's level in that department. Nor is he close in terms of playmaking to Stamkos. Carter is the better defensive checker. But when you're dealing with the offensive superstar that Stamkos is, doesn't really matter.
- MJL

OK, maybe an exaggeration.
But Carter is one of the most fluid skaters in the league, especially for his size.
He has a very quick release and an explosive shot.
I don't think he has the accuracy of Stamkos, but his release is certainly near the top of the league.

For me there is not a huge distance in athletic talent from each other.

Stamkos has the Gretzky like ability to go where the puck is going before it gets there.
His hockey IQ and smarts seems to be on another level then Carter's.

No Ray Charles is.
- GirouxForTheShow

Well, if Ray Charles is God
God hates queerosexuals

Ray Charles is a raging homophobe

I have this feeling too, but doesn't that then make it easier to trade Couturier?
- youarewrong

I know what I have in Coots. I have no idea what Laughton will eventually bring to the table. That doesn't make it easier for me to trade Coots.

Maybe if the scouting department was actually able to draft and develop something other than forwards this organization wouldn't always have to look to trades and FA for good d-men.

That to me, would be one of the biggest issues.

OK, maybe an exaggeration.
But Carter is one of the most fluid skaters in the league, especially for his size.
He has a very quick release and an explosive shot.
I don't think he has the accuracy of Stamkos, but his release is certainly near the top of the league.

For me there is not a huge distance in athletic talent from each other.

Stamkos has the Gretzky like ability to go where the puck is going before it gets there.
His hockey IQ and smarts seems to be on another level then Carter's.
- Marc D

IMO, there is a huge difference in athletic talent between Stamkos and Carter.

The basic SPC contains clauses in every players contract that pertain to that. I don't know of any precedent for that, or how the Cap would be affected. Good question.
- MJL

If any team could use that concept to circumvent the Cap we know it would be Philly

Maybe if the scouting department was actually able to draft and develop something other than forwards this organization wouldn't always have to look to trades and FA for good d-men.

That to me, would be one of the biggest issues.
- flyer_nutter

Amen Brother!

And maybe we trade Couturier for Buff, Buff plays horribly while Couturier scores 25/36/60 and wins a Selke. Should have kept the forward.

But really, Cousins scoring 20 goals (which assumes he plays most/all of the season in the NHL) is a pretty long shot.
- jmatchett383

Or maybe Buff falls on Crosby, ends his career and Philly starts a 4-title run!

Or maybe Buff falls on Crosby, ends his career and Philly starts a 4-title run!
- TheGreat28

A far more likely scenario.

I agree to an extent. The Flyers D men aren't "slow" and they can make the basic puck moving plays just fine. We probably also agree that if the forwards were consistently more disciplined and committed defensively and supported the puck better, that would help improve the breakouts and transition game. That said, the Flyers need to add more dynamic offensive-defeneman types to the mix...guys who can better skate the puck up the ice in transition, join the play and execute (produce) in the offensive zone...ideally, a player (or players) who has a good/great shot, hockey sense and playmaking skills that can also QB the pp. Timonen is pretty much the only Flyers D man who fits this mold, but he's in the final stages of his career...it would behoove the Flyers to address this need sooner than later.
- exlund

This defense just doesnt fit Lavi's system of offensive attack. Lavi's systems calls for Defenseman that can get the puck and make passes to transition the forwards moving to attack. It also calls for defenseman that can get back and break up odd-man rushes caused by forwards working down-low. This team just doesn't have enough of these players. You need at least 1 per line, Timonen has lost his foot speed. Now if someone gets the jump on him 9 out 10 he is taking a penality. Coburn is "fast" for a big guy... but still not able to keep up with the faster forwards of the NHL. On top of that, when asked to fill the hole left from Prongers/Carle's puck moving ability he had a horrible time of it. Gus fills the type of defenseman the Lavi's system needs more of, but he just isnt a top defender yet....

IMO, there is a huge difference in athletic talent between Stamkos and Carter.
- 77rams

Duncan probably agrees

A far more likely scenario.
- jmatchett383

More likey crosby gets the hi five from pierre.

Duncan probably agrees


- flyer_nutter

You'd think flyer fans would be more sensitive to sticks to the eye/face considering our history.

This defense just doesnt fit Lavi's system of offensive attack. Lavi's systems calls for Defenseman that can get the puck and make passes to transition the forwards moving to attack. It also calls for defenseman that can get back and break up odd-man rushes caused by forwards working down-low. This team just doesn't have enough of these players. You need at least 1 per line, Timonen has lost his foot speed. Now if someone gets the jump on him 9 out 10 he is taking a penality. Coburn is "fast" for a big guy... but still not able to keep up with the faster forwards of the NHL. On top of that, when asked to fill the hole left from Prongers/Carle's puck moving ability he had a horrible time of it. Gus fills the type of defenseman the Lavi's system needs more of, but he just isnt a top defender yet....
- youarewrong

I'll throw this in my own words. Essentially the Flyers D IF healthy are decent players. However the mix is too much of the same stuff, especially for a forward core and coach that is built to play aggressive hockey.

Basically, you cant polish a turd into a diamond.

I didn't say anything about giving up Laughton, nor being hesitant to trade him. So I don't know where you're getting that from. In fact I have made numerous posts stating that I'd be willing to give up B Schenn in the right deal. So I don't think you understand my rationale. I'd be in favor of trading any player in the right deal, including Couturier.
- MJL

You are right..I made a leap of faith but also wasn't really trying to lock in on your opinion specifically. It's more the comment that in general, we as fans seem to always be reluctant to give up the players that would really be necessary to get the players we need back. Again, a generalism not your specific proposals.