ek says brad richards to philly
- 2Real

No thanks. He looks shot. Like Briere.

Not sure what that means.
- MJL

It means the Tampa fans are unhappy they are paying $33m over six years for a defenseman as limited as Matt Carle. Streit is not perfect but at least he can shoot the puck.

3rd liners...yea, that'll change their fortunes. aren't you the one who wasn't impressed with chimera when i called him a good add because of his size, speed and physicality?
- isaiah520

You're incorrect. In fact just during this past Season and the start of the playoffs, I stated the type of players that I thought the Flyers needed to add, and used Chimera as an example. And yes, 3rd line players that check all over the ice, play hard along the wall, and play well defensively, will change the fortunes of the Flyers. And all you have to do as an example of that is watch the current Cup Finals. And see the effect that the role players on each team have. And how important they are.

It means the Tampa fans are unhappy they are paying $33m over six years for a defenseman as limited as Matt Carle. Streit is not perfect but at least he can shoot the puck.
- Feanor

What the Tampa fans feel is really irrelevant. And Carle is not limited.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: On Goalie Drafting and Baked Potatoes
- bmeltzer

I wouldn't waste a pick in the first three rounds on a goaltender.

What the Tampa fans feel is really irrelevant. And Carle is not limited.
- MJL

Limited was definitely a bad word choice. Mediocre would be better.

I wouldn't waste a pick in the first three rounds on a goaltender.
- bradleyc4

Here here

Especially considering the fact that it is such a deep draft.

It means the Tampa fans are unhappy they are paying $33m over six years for a defenseman as limited as Matt Carle. Streit is not perfect but at least he can shoot the puck.
- Feanor

Yes, he can shoot the puck. He's also better than Carle at carrying the puck. Outside of those two areas, Carle's a better, and younger player.

Limited was definitely a bad word choice. Mediocre would be better.
- jak521

I would disagree that Carle is mediocre.

Im open to the idea. Schenn to LW. Richards as the second line center. He is 33 and has plenty of hockey left and he can win faceoffs. 4.5 for 4 yrs would seriously interest me. Bruins showing you can never have too many centers.

As long as it isnt to replace a traded young center. Keep your hands off Homer.
- coffee junkie

Make it $4 million AAV for three years, and I'd be interested. So long as it means Schenn moves to the wing and Couturier plays third line center with quality wings like Gagne, Read and Simmonds.

Yes, he can shoot the puck. He's also better than Carle at carrying the puck. Outside of those two areas, Carle's a better, and younger player.
- Jsaquella

I hope we don't see Streit carrying the puck a lot.

"No one could have seen this coming a year ago."

I respectfully disagree, Bill. Many of us fans saw the potential.. the speed.. the agility.. the positioning. At his age and experience, the only direction Bob could go was up. The biggest point, was that it was low risk, high potential reward to keep him. They could have went with him as the #1 last season, and into this season, signing a veteran as the back-up just in case. But if they would have just handed the steering wheel to Bob and gave him a chance, he could have been the best developed goalie since Hextall. Instead, they got rid of him, signed Bryz to an ungodly amount, and now they're stuck.

I realize it's dwelling on the past, and I realize that Bob only put up one good season so far as the declared starter. But I honestly think he will have a solid career, assuming he stays healthy.

I just don't understand why nobody wanted to give him a chance. He was alert, quick, agile, pretty good anticipation skills... he was worth the chance. And now here we are again... they paid Bryz a bankload of money, for an overall average performance, and now they'll probably buy him out... leaving the Flyers once again, looking for a starter. Maybe Mason can take the reigns, maybe not. We've only had a sample of him yet as well, so it's hard to say.

Oh well, I guess. What's done is done. I wish Bob nothing but the best wherever he goes.

"No one could have seen this coming a year ago."

I respectfully disagree, Bill. Many of us fans saw the potential.. the speed.. the agility.. the positioning. At his age and experience, the only direction Bob could go was up. The biggest point, was that it was low risk, high potential reward to keep him. They could have went with him as the #1 last season, and into this season, signing a veteran as the back-up just in case. But if they would have just handed the steering wheel to Bob and gave him a chance, he could have been the best developed goalie since Hextall. Instead, they got rid of him, signed Bryz to an ungodly amount, and now they're stuck.

I realize it's dwelling on the past, and I realize that Bob only put up one good season so far as the declared starter. But I honestly think he will have a solid career, assuming he stays healthy.

I just don't understand why nobody wanted to give him a chance. He was alert, quick, agile, pretty good anticipation skills... he was worth the chance. And now here we are again... they paid Bryz a bankload of money, for an overall average performance, and now they'll probably buy him out... leaving the Flyers once again, looking for a starter. Maybe Mason can take the reigns, maybe not. We've only had a sample of him yet as well, so it's hard to say.

Oh well, I guess. What's done is done. I wish Bob nothing but the best wherever he goes.
- WarriorHockey21

There is a huge difference between going up, and ascending and developing as a player. Versus winning the Vezina this quickly. In that regard, Bill is right. Nobody saw this coming. And it was hard to say that Bobrovsky could take over as a starter at one point also.

What the Tampa fans feel is really irrelevant. And Carle is not limited.
- MJL

Of course he's limited. He has one of the worst shots in the entire league, he's not physical, and he's prone to making awful giveaways.

http://www.rawcharge.com/...w-Your-rangers-goal-video

Tampa fans opinion of him is just as relevant as yours.

You're incorrect. In fact just during this past Season and the start of the playoffs, I stated the type of players that I thought the Flyers needed to add, and used Chimera as an example. And yes, 3rd line players that check all over the ice, play hard along the wall, and play well defensively, will change the fortunes of the Flyers. And all you have to do as an example of that is watch the current Cup Finals. And see the effect that the role players on each team have. And how important they are.
- MJL

Man when Ladd was a UFA I wanted the flyers to get him badly. I didn't think he as going to be this good of a player though

You're incorrect. In fact just during this past Season and the start of the playoffs, I stated the type of players that I thought the Flyers needed to add, and used Chimera as an example. And yes, 3rd line players that check all over the ice, play hard along the wall, and play well defensively, will change the fortunes of the Flyers. And all you have to do as an example of that is watch the current Cup Finals. And see the effect that the role players on each team have. And how important they are.
- MJL

fact- i was on to chimera yrs ago and you were dismissive. good to see you've changed your mind. i also trumpeted the value of role plyrs in the plyoffs and you went off on a riff about if your best plyrs aren't getting it done, it doesn't matter what role plyrs do. you're just a beauty

Of course he's limited. He has one of the worst shots in the entire league, he's not physical, and he's prone to making awful giveaways.

http://www.rawcharge.com/...w-Your-rangers-goal-video

Tampa fans opinion of him is just as relevant as yours.
- Feanor

In the big picture, my opinion isn't really relevant either. Do you think that Yzerman cares about what the fans think of Carle? I love the Youtube defense. You can find a video of every defenseman in the League making a mistake leading to a goal. Carle is physical enough to play the position. And he doesn't turn over the puck any more then any other top puck handling defenseman does. In fact, he does so a lot less then others. Every defenseman but the best. have strengths and weaknesses. If Carle was 6-3 220 and had a big shot, Tampa wouldn't have gotten him for 5.5M

fact- i was on to chimera yrs ago and you were dismissive. good to see you've changed your mind. i also trumpeted the value of role plyrs in the plyoffs and you went off on a riff about if your best plyrs aren't getting it done, it doesn't matter what role plyrs do. you're just a beauty
- isaiah520

Context is everything. 2 years is a long time. Needs change. Situations change. And just because you state something is a fact in what I said, doesn't make it the case. I'm interested in discussing the current team, not 2 years ago. And I think this team needs a "Chimera" more then it needs a "Ryder"

There is a huge difference between going up, and ascending and developing as a player. Versus winning the Vezina this quickly. In that regard, Bill is right. Nobody saw this coming. And it was hard to say that Bobrovsky could take over as a starter at one point also.
- MJL

I had been vocal about wanting to stick with Bob and was against the Bryzgalov contract from the get-go.

We had a promising young goaltender at a reasonable cost (for the short-term) and do not like spending a lot on the position.

However, anyone saying that they predicted Bob would win a Vezina trophy, and especially this soon, was either speaking sarcastically at the time or drunk. I never expected this outcome -- especially in Columbus.

Another factor is that there is no guarantee that Bob would have done the same here. In fact, it would have been highly unlikely given the style of play and personnel. Sometimes it's just a perfect storm of a player moving to the right place at the right time.

Sometimes it's just the craziness of a 48-game schedule.

In the big picture, my opinion isn't really relevant either. Do you think that Yzerman cares about what the fans think of Carle? I love the Youtube defense. You can find a video of every defenseman in the League making a mistake leading to a goal. Carle is physical enough to play the position. And he doesn't turn over the puck any more then any other top puck handling defenseman does. In fact, he does so a lot less then others. Every defenseman but the best. have strengths and weaknesses. If Carle was 6-3 220 and had a big shot, Tampa wouldn't have gotten him for 5.5M
- MJL

You make a blanket statement saying that Philadelphia doesn't like a certain type of defenseman, him particular Matt Carle. Yet you don't allow other cities fans' opinions of said player into the discussion?


(frank) I hate comparing apples to apples!

Context is everything. 2 years is a long time. Needs change. Situations change. And just because you state something is a fact in what I said, doesn't make it the case. I'm interested in discussing the current team, not 2 years ago. And I think this team needs a "Chimera" more then it needs a "Ryder"
- MJL

context? chimera was/is an asset then and now. he's a good plyr that most teams would make room for.

I had been vocal about wanting to stick with Bob and was against the Bryzgalov contract from the get-go.

We had a promising young goaltender at a reasonable cost (for the short-term) and do not like spending a lot on the position.

However, anyone saying that they predicted Bob would win a Vezina trophy, and especially this soon, was either speaking sarcastically at the time or drunk. I never expected this outcome -- especially in Columbus.

Another factor is that there is no guarantee that Bob would have done the same here. In fact, it would have been highly unlikely given the style of play and personnel. Sometimes it's just a perfect storm of a player moving to the right place at the right time.

Sometimes it's just the craziness of a 48-game schedule.
- bradleyc4

remains to be seen if bob, luke and jvr can repeat their success over 82 gms, staying healthy, being consistent.

Every defenseman but the best. have strengths and weaknesses. If Carle was 6-3 220 and had a big shot, Tampa wouldn't have gotten him for 5.5M
- MJL

So you agree that Carle is not one of the best, i.e. he has limitations/weaknesses.

Man when Ladd was a UFA I wanted the flyers to get him badly. I didn't think he as going to be this good of a player though
- Just5

I wouldn't mind seeing them add Zubrus, plays smart in all 3 zones and is strong as an ox along the boards. He is also a pretty good penalty killer.

I had been vocal about wanting to stick with Bob and was against the Bryzgalov contract from the get-go.

We had a promising young goaltender at a reasonable cost (for the short-term) and do not like spending a lot on the position.

However, anyone saying that they predicted Bob would win a Vezina trophy, and especially this soon, was either speaking sarcastically at the time or drunk. I never expected this outcome -- especially in Columbus.

Another factor is that there is no guarantee that Bob would have done the same here. In fact, it would have been highly unlikely given the style of play and personnel. Sometimes it's just a perfect storm of a player moving to the right place at the right time.

Sometimes it's just the craziness of a 48-game schedule.
- bradleyc4

All very well said.