Its an unfortunate situation. He was supposed to be the solution.

With Mason though, the puck-handling ability I just love. It really helps a team to have a guy like that back there. I forget against who, but he basically cleared the puck on the PK himself, and it put a big smile on my face.

He has been pretty brutal the last few years, but isnt injury prone, and still young enough to figure things out. If guided through the hell that Philly is when it comes to goalies, I think he can be good. Well not so much as think, as hope.

Its what we all hope for really.
- flyer_nutter

I'm really hoping the Flyers go hard am Ray Emery. He's better then a guy just sitting on the bench for most of the season. I don't think it's right to hand the number one spot to a player who's also had his share of struggles himself over the past few season. I want a controversy in goal. A composition for that number 1 job.

I'm really hoping the Flyers go hard am Ray Emery. He's better then a guy just sitting on the bench for most of the season. I don't think it's right to hand the number one spot to a player who's also had his share of struggles himself over the past few season. I want a controversy in goal. A composition for that number 1 job.
- dingo8urbaby

I respect how Emery has fought his way back to the NHL. I just don't know how long those hips can hold up in the NHL, what he is doing is unprecedented. I wouldn't invest a multi-year deal in him. Worst case, if Mason bombs and Emery isn't healthy, they are down to Heeter. The Flyers always believe they are in Cup contention every year, I would be kind of surprised they go the Emery route with Mason.

I'm failing to see where your coming from. I've already made my point crystal clear.

My apologizes but when you posted a cap example that showcased Richards, Carter and Bryzgalov on one cap, you lost me. Apart of the reason why we traded them away was to afford Bryzgalov. After that, there is no telling who would be on the team today because so many players have been brought in and moved on since. It's a waste of time to speculate.

The point I'm making is, identify your core and run with it. From here on out, we're unlikely to make such splashes as we did with Richards and Carter.

Not to mention we were able to trade our team's Captain because we had a proven leader and winner in Chris Pronger. We don't anymore.
- dingo8urbaby

If the bold section is part of your point then it was not crystal clear. You were calling those trades mistakes/blunders. I have no problem with running with the players you identified as the core, but if the right trade comes up, it should be made. Even if that trade includes part of that core. Are we likely or unlikely to make such a splash? I don't know; that would be pure speculation, but I would like to think Homer is open to any possibilities that improve the team.

I'm really hoping the Flyers go hard am Ray Emery. He's better then a guy just sitting on the bench for most of the season. I don't think it's right to hand the number one spot to a player who's also had his share of struggles himself over the past few season. I want a controversy in goal. A composition for that number 1 job.
- dingo8urbaby

Id be okay with Ray. The injuries scare me but as kind of a veteran mentor I'd be cool with him. He has gone through a lot in his career, and he could be a good guy to have around Mason. He has been really solid in the back-up role in Chicago from what I have heard, as far as being a good team guy goes.

The one thing though that I want to stay away from at all cost is competition or a controversy. Its just me, but I think thats a really good way to (frank) with a young goaltender's head, and always has them looking over their shoulder.

Its why I dont like the whole Bernier approach, and prefer an older veteran time splitter. Make it clear Mason at this time is the future, and bring in a guy to be the current starter, but having Mason really being given a shot at having good time in the net.

I'd love any one of Luongo, Emery, Backstrom or Hiller, giving Mason a few years to get his real game back, and his confidence.

If the bold section is part of your point then it was not crystal clear. You were calling those trades mistakes/blunders. I have no problem with running with the players you identified as the core, but if the right trade comes up, it should be made. Even if that trade includes part of that core. Are we likely or unlikely to make such a splash? I don't know; that would be pure speculation, but I would like to think Homer is open to any possibilities that improve the team.
- Adam1

My point was clear and FlyerMike18 two pages ago responded accordingly. He didn't post a bunch of numbers that are irreverent because a lot has happened in the last 2 years.

Let's state for example that maybe Claude Giroux and Jake Voracek are our new Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. If we traded our team Captain away today, who takes over? We had a Captain identified before the ink was dry on the trade slip, Chris Pronger. Who on this team can take on the work load Giroux and Voracek already take on night to night? You see, before there was a back up plan to every angle. Right now we don't have the same safety net. We have our core. This is what we have to run with right now.

You can always add pieces to an already good team. The Richards and Carter era brought us our last Stanley Cup Final. There is no reason why it couldn't happen again within the next couple of years. I'm not saying this group can't bring us to the promise land. I'm saying, it wouldn't be wise to see another change up anytime soon.

Id be okay with Ray. The injuries scare me but as kind of a veteran mentor I'd be cool with him. He has gone through a lot in his career, and he could be a good guy to have around Mason. He has been really solid in the back-up role in Chicago from what I have heard, as far as being a good team guy goes.

The one thing though that I want to stay away from at all cost is competition or a controversy. Its just me, but I think thats a really good way to (frank) with a young goaltender's head, and always has them looking over their shoulder.

Its why I dont like the whole Bernier approach, and prefer an older veteran time splitter. Make it clear Mason at this time is the future, and bring in a guy to be the current starter, but having Mason really being given a shot at having good time in the net.

I'd love any one of Luongo, Emery, Backstrom or Hiller, giving Mason a few years to get his real game back, and his confidence.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think Mason's stint had anything to do with injuries. I think it had more to do with the team sucking and his play sucked along with it. Baby steps though. He's had some success in juniors and some success as an NHLer, winning rookie of the year and making the playoffs one season.

Interestingly enough, even when playing in such a crappy organization, Steven Mason still has playoff experience. One of the knocks on bringing Jay Bouwmeester into the fold was lack of playoff experience. Both now have more then Luke Schenn does...

My point was clear and FlyerMike18 two pages ago responded accordingly. He didn't post a bunch of number that irreverent because a lot has happened in the last 2 years.

Let's state for example that maybe Claude Giroux and Jake Voracek are our new Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. If we traded our team Captain away today, who takes over? We had a Captain identified before the ink was dry on the trade slip, Chris Pronger. Who on this team can take on the work load Giroux and Voracek already take on night to night? You see, before there was a back up plan to every angle. Right now we don't have the same safety net. We have our core. This is what we have to run with right now.

You can always add pieces to an already good team. The Richards and Carter era brought us our last Stanley Cup Final. There is no reason why it couldn't happen again within the next couple of years. I'm not saying this group can't bring us to the promise land. I'm saying, it wouldn't be wise to see another change up anytime soon.
- dingo8urbaby

Identifying a core and running with it is not the part of your post that I had a problem with (And I will concede the irrelevance of possible rosters). The problem is considering the trades a mistake that must not be repeated. If a trade with similar returns were offered, it would have to be considered no matter who was involved. Honestly, except Giroux, I don't think there is a player on the team who they shouldn't consider trading for a top ten draft pick and either a top 6 forward or a top pairing d-man (similar return to those trades) if it were offered. Will that be offered? Probably not, but it would not be a mistake to jump on the opportunity if it arose similar to that year.

Happy Father's Day, Bill. Thanks for keeping us informed and sharing your perspective with us.

I don't think Mason's stint had anything to do with injuries. I think it had more to do with the team sucking and his play sucked along with it. Baby steps though. He's had some success in juniors and some success as an NHLer, winning rookie of the year and making the playoffs one season.

Interestingly enough, even when playing in such a crappy organization, Steven Mason still has playoff experience. One of the knocks on bringing Jay Bouwmeester into the fold was lack of playoff experience. Both now have more then Luke Schenn does...
- dingo8urbaby

I'm kind of on a line here.

Regarding J-Bow he would improve the team for sure. Although I think this D-core will then be paying too much money, for a bunch of mediocre players, or players that aren't really elite guys.

Its damn hard to find one these days, so the Flyers may just have to build a defense with what they can find, but I really do think they need someone of that upper caliber. I would rather hang to cap space, for when that opportunity comes along, instead of burning money and years on lesser players.

The problem with that though, we see just how hard it is to get that player. I know Letang has some pimples in his game, but if he does hit UFA, he might be the closest thing this team can get its hands on when it comes to a #1 d-man.

I dont think one is really a crucial need in today's game, but frankly I dont think this team will win jack poop until they bring in a player of that caliber for the back end.

I like baked potatoes.

Happy father's day Bill and all you hooligans.

Had a Termini bros cannoli last night, all seems right with the world.
- Marc D

From the Terminal?

Did it wash down a pork sandwich?

Identifying a core and running with it is not the part of your post that I had a problem with (And I will concede the irrelevance of possible rosters). The problem is considering the trades a mistake that must not be repeated. If a trade with similar returns were offered, it would have to be considered no matter who was involved. Honestly, except Giroux, I don't think there is a player on the team who they shouldn't consider trading for a top ten draft pick and either a top 6 forward or a top pairing d-man (similar return to those trades) if it were offered. Will that be offered? Probably not, but it would not be a mistake to jump on the opportunity if it arose similar to that year.
- Adam1

I've already given numerous reasons why another huge transition like that is unlikely to happen. Even you yourself just stated "Except Giroux". Well, why not Giroux? Why can't he be moved? Probably for the same reasons I just displayed for you...

I'm kind of on a line here.

Regarding J-Bow he would improve the team for sure. Although I think this D-core will then be paying too much money, for a bunch of mediocre players, or players that aren't really elite guys.

Its damn hard to find one these days, so the Flyers may just have to build a defense with what they can find, but I really do think they need someone of that upper caliber. I would rather hang to cap space, for when that opportunity comes along, instead of burning money and years on lesser players.

The problem with that though, we see just how hard it is to get that player. I know Letang has some pimples in his game, but if he does hit UFA, he might be the closest thing this team can get its hands on when it comes to a #1 d-man.

I dont think one is really a crucial need in today's game, but frankly I dont think this team will win jack poop until they bring in a player of that caliber for the back end.
- flyer_nutter

I think signing Mark Streit at a cap hit of 6 million per is a huge mistake. His game isn't balanced enough for me. His age is a concern. I can't say I'm a fan of the size of him. Right now I'm begging for Jay Bouwmeester. I'm not even sure what to call Streit. A quick fix? He sure cannot be expected to replace Kimmo Timonen in a year from now.

I've already given numerous reasons why another huge transition like that is unlikely to happen. Even you yourself just stated "Except Giroux". Well, why not Giroux? Why can't he be moved?
- dingo8urbaby

1) Except Giroux was meant to refer to the specific package mentioned. He is not "untouchable," it would just take more to make it worth it for the Flyers to move him as he is their only current first line center.

2) Trading one of the 7 players you identified as the Flyers' core would not be a "huge transition."

1) Except Giroux was meant to refer to the specific package mentioned. He is not "untouchable," it would just take more to make it worth it for the Flyers to move him as he is their only current first line center.

2) Trading one of the 7 players you identified as the Flyers' core would not be a "huge transition."
- Adam1

I don't think there is anything wrong with deeming certain players as "untouchable". Maybe this attitude of "Nobody is untouchable" is why the Flyers haven't won a Cup since the mid 70's. There is already talk of moving Matt Read who would be a solid addition to any of the 30 teams around the league. I believe he himself could bring a modest return that could fill a need. I don't know what trading away all our past youth does for those who are still here. Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, James van Riemsdyk, all gone after signing contracts that promised them to stay. I think chemistry on the ice has a lot to do with how long you've known and been playing with another player.

i agree w/ those who say that anointing Bob as the 2nd coming of Bernie is premature at this point. i thought homer got a good return for him at the time and that's how it goes. signing bryz essentially sealed his fate. that was the real mistake.

i would also say the same thing about the exuberance for Luke and JVR, for that matter, though the latter has shown real well in the plyoffs, which is a plus. let's see what these plyrs do over the course of a full reg season before we draw conclusions about the direction of their careers.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: On Goalie Drafting and Baked Potatoes
- bmeltzer

At the earliest I'd pull the trigger on a goalie is round 2 with Tristan Jarry, if not I'd wait to the 3rd for Spencer Martin or maybe an Austin Lotz or Charlie Graham

In the HB mock draft they have the Flyers selecting Wennberg and comparing him to Zetterberg....

In the HB mock draft they have the Flyers selecting Wennberg and comparing him to Zetterberg....
- isaiah520

I just want the Finals to end and for the draft to begin. Even though I don't think we'll see another huge turnover in personnel like we saw when Richards and Carter were shipped out, I just can't help but wonder when and if the next big shocking move will be made. For all the Scott Laughton defenders, I'm not saying he won't ever become a good young player in the NHL. I'm saying he's likely to become a lesser center then Claude Giroux, Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Sure Brayden Schenn could end up on the wing but I have to say, he looks a lot better in the middle. I'm finding it unlikely that we drafted a career 4th line center in the first round. I do feel it is probably a little more ideal to have a veteran centering the 4th line that specializes on being a PK guy and winning faceoffs in that spot. Maybe it's wrong to assume this but if the offense never really came for Laughton in juniors, why would it come in the NHL?

I just want the Finals to end and for the draft to begin. Even though I don't think we'll see another huge turnover in personnel like we saw when Richards and Carter were shipped out, I just can't help but wonder when and if the next big shocking move will be made. For all the Scott Laughton defenders, I'm not saying he won't ever become a good young player in the NHL. I'm saying he's likely to become a lesser center then Claude Giroux, Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Sure Brayden Schenn could end up on the wing but I have to say, he looks a lot better in the middle. I'm finding it unlikely that we drafted a career 4th line center in the first round. I do feel it is probably a little more ideal to have a veteran centering the 4th line that specializes on being a PK guy and winning faceoffs in that spot. Maybe it's wrong to assume this but if the offense never really came for Laughton in juniors, why would it come in the NHL?
- dingo8urbaby

I thought Laughton put up decent numbers in the regular season and playoffs this year

I just want the Finals to end and for the draft to begin. Even though I don't think we'll see another huge turnover in personnel like we saw when Richards and Carter were shipped out, I just can't help but wonder when and if the next big shocking move will be made. For all the Scott Laughton defenders, I'm not saying he won't ever become a good young player in the NHL. I'm saying he's likely to become a lesser center then Claude Giroux, Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Sure Brayden Schenn could end up on the wing but I have to say, he looks a lot better in the middle. I'm finding it unlikely that we drafted a career 4th line center in the first round. I do feel it is probably a little more ideal to have a veteran centering the 4th line that specializes on being a PK guy and winning faceoffs in that spot. Maybe it's wrong to assume this but if the offense never really came for Laughton in juniors, why would it come in the NHL?
- dingo8urbaby

Laughton is prob a better bet to become a solid 3rd line C than schenn is to be a scoring winger, which the flyers could use. i think schenn best projects as a second line C w/ an all around game.

the flyers could go in a couple of directions here, but moving schenn for a winger would not surprise me. many would say that D should be the priority, which i agree w/, but the cost may prove to be too much for that commodity, so homer could go in this direction. the target would most likely be the usual suspects, but the prospects are there, cause many teams could use a 2nd line C. this is also a move that could be made in season as the flyers may wish to make sure laughton can handle 3rd line duties and couts the 2nd line ones...then again it could be couts dealt, but i only see that for a dman.

these aren't necessarily recommendations, just more like predictions.

Id be okay with Ray. The injuries scare me but as kind of a veteran mentor I'd be cool with him. He has gone through a lot in his career, and he could be a good guy to have around Mason. He has been really solid in the back-up role in Chicago from what I have heard, as far as being a good team guy goes.

The one thing though that I want to stay away from at all cost is competition or a controversy. Its just me, but I think thats a really good way to (frank) with a young goaltender's head, and always has them looking over their shoulder.

Its why I dont like the whole Bernier approach, and prefer an older veteran time splitter. Make it clear Mason at this time is the future, and bring in a guy to be the current starter, but having Mason really being given a shot at having good time in the net.

I'd love any one of Luongo, Emery, Backstrom or Hiller, giving Mason a few years to get his real game back, and his confidence.
- flyer_nutter

If and when Bryz gets bought out, I would assume the tandem of Mason and whomever will probably be near the cap hit of what Bryz was making. Bobby Lu is an interesting choice because assuming he gets amnested he will have options. I really don't have a lot of interest in Backstrom (reminds me of a later year Vokoun) and I don't see them spending that kind of cap room on Hiller. His cap hit isn't too bad, but he is 31 in his last of his deal. He's okay, but you have to figure he'll want a raise at the end of the year.


I would love to see Mason turn it around and succeed long-term. However, he was so bad for so long, I'm not sure anyone but the Flyers would have signed him to a one-way contract. He is the ultimate reclamation project. So I wouldn't be shocked to see them go with another young goaltender (I understand your views about messing with Mason's head). However, outside of Bobby Lu (even he is questionable at this point), I don't see any of the veteran goalies being able to carry a heavy load if Mason falters. Right or wrong, the Flyers organization always thinks they are in the mix for this year's Stanley Cup. I don't think they are concerned if Mason's psyche gets damaged if another goaltender is brought in as a tandem IMHO.

Basically, I think it comes down to Bobby Lu or Bernier. Bernier has more of a pedigree then any of the other young potenital goals available and there certainly is a relationship between the Flyers and Kings. Either way, at this point I would be pretty surprised if Bryz is with the club come training camp.

At the earliest I'd pull the trigger on a goalie is round 2 with Tristan Jarry, if not I'd wait to the 3rd for Spencer Martin or maybe an Austin Lotz or Charlie Graham
- ob18

That's the plan right there.

If and when Bryz gets bought out, I would assume the tandem of Mason and whomever will probably be near the cap hit of what Bryz was making. Bobby Lu is an interesting choice because assuming he gets amnested he will have options. I really don't have a lot of interest in Backstrom (reminds me of a later year Vokoun) and I don't see them spending that kind of cap room on Hiller. His cap hit isn't too bad, but he is 31 in his last of his deal. He's okay, but you have to figure he'll want a raise at the end of the year.


I would love to see Mason turn it around and succeed long-term. However, he was so bad for so long, I'm not sure anyone but the Flyers would have signed him to a one-way contract. He is the ultimate reclamation project. So I wouldn't be shocked to see them go with another young goaltender (I understand your views about messing with Mason's head). However, outside of Bobby Lu (even he is questionable at this point), I don't see any of the veteran goalies being able to carry a heavy load if Mason falters. Right or wrong, the Flyers organization always thinks they are in the mix for this year's Stanley Cup. I don't think they are concerned if Mason's psyche gets damaged if another goaltender is brought in as a tandem IMHO.

Basically, I think it comes down to Bobby Lu or Bernier. Bernier has more of a pedigree then any of the other young potenital goals available and there certainly is a relationship between the Flyers and Kings. Either way, at this point I would be pretty surprised if Bryz is with the club come training camp.
- ravishingone

can't wait to move on from the drama in goal...of course, we can't say for sure whether or not a new chapter will ensue...

I think signing Mark Streit at a cap hit of 6 million per is a huge mistake. His game isn't balanced enough for me. His age is a concern. I can't say I'm a fan of the size of him. Right now I'm begging for Jay Bouwmeester. I'm not even sure what to call Streit. A quick fix? He sure cannot be expected to replace Kimmo Timonen in a year from now.
- dingo8urbaby

I agree with you about Streit (if he gets that contract rumored). He's an upgrade but that's a lot of money. I just hope two years from now it doesn't look terrible (if he signs).

That's the plan right there.
- Flyskippy

That was mentioned just for you sir.