when you lock in, you lose. only possible exception is when you are adding a final piece. flyers haven't been in a moses malone type situation by any stretch.
- isaiah520

Absolutely not true. It's not automatic that you lose when you lock in on a target and go after it. Want an example? When the Flyers traded for the rights to Timonen and Hartnell prior to Free Agency. That wasn't adding a final peice. They were coming off of finishing last overall. History tell you that your initial statement is untrue.

I'm Cool with this! Bernier to TOR I guess
- Just5

Me too.. I am not interested in moving Read.

eh, the flyers have a bunch of talented young forwards and a dearth of high end prospects in their system. ryan (imo) is just an unnecessary luxury. sure it would be great to add him, but not at that high a cost. i think they're better off not depleting their d corps and prospect pool for that kind of an asset
- FlyerMike18

okay yeah. this i can understand to an extent. if you feel you dont need him and its not worth going down that avenue at all, then move on. but for the amount of clamoring ive seen/heard for ryan, i figured the desire was there for him and the issue was more with the price, which i dont see as an overpayment. not trying to ruffle feathers at all

I must say I am somewhat surprised by this. I think it probably confirms that Mez is definitely going to be moved for cap space.

I really believe Bryz has run his course here. Nothing good can come from him sticking around. Not from a team standpoint, not from a fan standpoint. The guy is going to be regularly crucified from the start of training camp until the day he is bought out next season.

- MBFlyerfan

Or Coburn... he is the one who's name has been in the trade rumors.

Absolutely not true. It's not automatic that you lose when you lock in on a target and go after it. Want an example? When the Flyers traded for the rights to Timonen and Hartnell prior to Free Agency. History tell you that your initial statement is untrue.
- MJL

NSH couldn't afford those guys. it was unheard of at the time to move a pick in advance for rights. homer brilliantly manipulated that mkt. totally diff scenario. he was in total rebuild mode w/ oodles of $$ and cap space. next...

I agree with you. But as I've said repeatedly. Nothing the Flyers did this off season would shock me.
- MJL

Homer: "challenge accepted"

Or Coburn... he is the one who's name has been in the trade rumors.
- flyler

We are very much in the dark as to Mez's Health status for next year

yea but the blue jackets had to move nash and he had a NTC which is why his asking price was lowered substantially. we still gave them 2 top-6 forwards, our top prospect, and a 1st round pick for him.


ehh not so sure we can say the ducks are that much of a small market team anymore. we said that about the predators but they matched the weber offer sheet.
- rangerdanger94

Dubinsky and anisimov are third liners..

NSH couldn't afford those guys. it was unheard of at the time to move a pick in advance for rights. homer brilliantly manipulated that mkt. totally diff scenario. he was in total rebuild mode w/ oodles of $$ and cap space. next...
- isaiah520

That Nashville couldn't afford them, or that trading a pick in advance for rights was unheard of, is irrelevant to your premise that you "lock in you lose". Neither does having a lot of Cap space matter. What matters is how it works out. And as I plainly pointed out, locking in on Timonen and Hartnell worked out just fine. It's the exact same scenario. Identifying a target, trading for rights, and signing them to a deal before they hit Free Agency. They didn't let the market play out. they got who they wanted. There were other defenseman available.

okay yeah. this i can understand to an extent. if you feel you dont need him and its not worth going down that avenue at all, then move on. but for the amount of clamoring ive seen/heard for ryan, i figured the desire was there for him and the issue was more with the price, which i dont see as an overpayment. not trying to ruffle feathers at all
- stayinthefnnet

definitely doesn't seem like ruffling feathers, just an honest conversation. and i don't think your position is outlandish at all. i'd just prefer to see the flyers hold tight

and i think the main reasons for all of the clamor amongst flyer fans are 1) the whole raised in the philly area angle intrigues people (which, honestly, i can understand.... i just hope that's not a factor for homer ) and 2) look at the new shiny toy!

not to say he's not a good player. because he is

Or Coburn... he is the one who's name has been in the trade rumors.
- flyler

Yeah, but I hope not. Coburn had an off year. Some are already trying to run him out of town. He will bounce back nicely if Lavi puts him in the right role.

Dubinsky and anisimov are third liners..
- PhillaBully

if dubi is a third liner, so is simmonds.

anisimov is a 2nd liner and developing into their 1st line center.

they can both be considered top 6 forwards imo.

yea but the blue jackets had to move nash and he had a NTC which is why his asking price was lowered substantially. we still gave them 2 top-6 forwards, our top prospect, and a 1st round pick for him.


ehh not so sure we can say the ducks are that much of a small market team anymore. we said that about the predators but they matched the weber offer sheet.
- rangerdanger94

all i'm saying is that there's often a gap between what a team's asking for at one point in time and what they ultimately get if they stick with trying to move a guy. all depends on where they stand with ryan internally (which, obviously, none of us has any way of knowing)

if dubi is a third liner, so is simmonds.


- rangerdanger94

Dubinsky had 2 goals in 29 games. Simmonds had 15 goals and 17 assists in 45 games. Which is scoring at a 27 goal and 30 assists in an 82 game Season. Those numbers are above what you can expect from a 3rd line player.

all i'm saying is that there's often a gap between what a team's asking for at one point in time and what they ultimately get if they stick with trying to move a guy. all depends on where they stand with ryan internally (which, obviously, none of us has any way of knowing)
- FlyerMike18

i'm sure the ducks would be willing to accept lower than their starting price but it would still have to be an overpayment.

in negotiations, you figure out the bottom figure you will be willing to give up the player for, and then you ask for a lot more so that you have somewhere to negotiate down to.

but again, it would still have to be an overpayment because they don't want to or need to trade him. he's scored over 30 goals every season, he's very durable, he's young, he's skilled, he's big and strong. why would they trade him straight up for another 30 goal scorer? it will have to be a 25 goal scorer and a good Dman or another 20 goal scorer along with him.

Dubinsky had 2 goals in 29 games. Simmonds had 15 goals and 17 assists in 45 games. Which is scoring at a 27 goal and 30 assists in an 82 game Season. Those numbers are above what you can expect from a 3rd line player.
- MJL

dubinsky has scored more goals than simmonds in most seasons and has scored more than 20 goals more times than simmonds. his career highs are better than simmonds as well. dubinsky is pretty equal to simmonds man.

if dubi is a third liner, so is simmonds.

anisimov is a 2nd liner and developing into their 1st line center.

they can both be considered top 6 forwards imo.
- rangerdanger94

Comparable to Ryan is gaborik... Did he fetch two top six forwards? Dubinsky is a third line player on most teams anisimov is a second line center.

Comparable to Ryan is gaborik... Did he fetch two top six forwards? Dubinsky is a third line player on most teams anisimov is a second line center.
- PhillaBully

yes i agree that anisimov is a 2nd line center on contending teams and that dubinsky can slot in on 3rd line well. but dubinsky can also play on the 2nd line as well and saying otherwise is just far-fetched. they can both be considered top-6 forwards.

gaborik fetched a top 6 forward, a top 4 Dman, and a bottom 6 forward. but i think ryan has a lot more value than gaborik because of his contract, durability, consistency, and youth.

Sooooo
According to BRYZSTALINOV's agent he WON'T be bought out

What do we flyer fans say to this? I smell something's up. Lying to protect his client?
- FLYERSROCK!

no buy out, maybe traded

Dubinsky had 2 goals in 29 games. Simmonds had 15 goals and 17 assists in 45 games. Which is scoring at a 27 goal and 30 assists in an 82 game Season. Those numbers are above what you can expect from a 3rd line player.
- MJL

BAM

i'm sure the ducks would be willing to accept lower than their starting price but it would still have to be an overpayment.

in negotiations, you figure out the bottom figure you will be willing to give up the player for, and then you ask for a lot more so that you have somewhere to negotiate down to.

but again, it would still have to be an overpayment because they don't want to or need to trade him. he's scored over 30 goals every season, he's very durable, he's young, he's skilled, he's big and strong. why would they trade him straight up for another 30 goal scorer? it will have to be a 25 goal scorer and a good Dman or another 20 goal scorer along with him.


dubinsky has scored more goals than simmonds in most seasons and has scored more than 20 goals more times than simmonds. his career highs are better than simmonds as well. dubinsky is pretty equal to simmonds man.
- rangerdanger94

Dubinsky is also 27 while Simmonds is 24. Simmonds offensive production has been steadily on the uptick while dubinskys has fallen off over the last few years

dubinsky has scored more goals than simmonds in most seasons and has scored more than 20 goals more times than simmonds. his career highs are better than simmonds as well. dubinsky is pretty equal to simmonds man.
- rangerdanger94

Dubinsky is an older player, and has played 7 NHL Seasons compared to 5 for Simmonds. And he certainly hasn't been equal to Simmonds the last couple of years.

yes i agree that anisimov is a 2nd line center on contending teams and that dubinsky can slot in on 3rd line well. but dubinsky can also play on the 2nd line as well and saying otherwise is just far-fetched. they can both be considered top-6 forwards.

gaborik fetched a top 6 forward, a top 4 Dman, and a bottom 6 forward. but i think ryan has a lot more value than gaborik because of his contract, durability, consistency, and youth.
- rangerdanger94

I think Ryan's contract decreases his value. Two years is a lot to give up all those players for. I think he'll be a flyer when his contract is up. No need to trade for him now

That Nashville couldn't afford them, or that trading a pick in advance for rights was unheard of, is irrelevant to your premise that you "lock in you lose". Neither does having a lot of Cap space matter. What matters is how it works out. And as I plainly pointed out, locking in on Timonen and Hartnell worked out just fine. It's the exact same scenario. Identifying a target, trading for rights, and signing them to a deal before they hit Free Agency.
- MJL

You must have OCD...you just can't let it go. If I was in a protracted discussion about CBA matters, I'd have my a$$ handed to me, but we're talking about negotiations, MKT conditions and leverage here. If you choose to believe that lock in scenarios are good business strategy, run w/ that, but when you lack flexibility and/or you are overcommitted time and again- like the flyers- you've failed to grasp a basic axiom of negotiations.

BAM

- FrmRusiaWifGlov

Dubinsky:
422 GP
83 G
150 A
233 P
533 PIMs

Simmonds:
367 GP
82 G
92 A
174 P
460 PIMS

over 422 games, simmonds would have 94 goals, 106 assists, 200 points, and 529 PIMs. dubinsky would have over 30 more career points than simmonds.

gaborik fetched a top 6 forward, a top 4 Dman, and a bottom 6 forward. but i think ryan has a lot more value than gaborik because of his contract, durability, consistency, and youth.
- rangerdanger94

I thought the Rangers made a great trade. But it's a stretch to call John Moore a top 4 D man. He certainly has that potential. But not yet.