Based on what?

Voracek is 24 years old
Carter is 28 years old

I would do that trade 100 times over straight up , ignoring anything else that came from it.
- opeth_pa

rather have voracek than carter voracek actually tries on the ice

Homer just got off the phone with Ryan Clowe's agent...
(sorry peeps, no Bobby Ryan in this years crystal ball)

If Clowe is a Flyer, thumbs up, or thumbs down ?
- MrBigglesworth

thumbs way down.

Not to belittle Bob's accomplishments but he only played 38 games. I don't even know if you could qualify for the Vezina having played less than half of the games in a regular season.
- NickTheKid87

i'm with you, and it's a valid point. i think the purpose of the article is to illustrate improvements in his game. it also reaffirms what we already knew - that he's got tremendous work ethic.

I agree, Clowe is not nearly as skilled as Hartnell or Simmonds...

That said, it really doesnt matter. He wont cost us any assets and Homer was sweet on him a few years back (when he was still potting lots of Pavelski/Couture rebounds)
- MrBigglesworth

Jokes aside, you are right.

It's obvious Homer likes what Clowe brings to the table. For me, with anyone they bring, it's a question of not overpaying relative to the market.

I think the context of the previous offseason is important, too. I won't be the first to say they're "chasing last year's cup", so to speak, but they went from feeling Leighton was fine and that goaltending wasn't the focus, to suddenly feeling they had to solidify the position as well as possible at all expense. It was a dramatic shift of priority, and it was in the blink of an eye.
- BulliesPhan87

What REALLY troubled me about the whole thing was the numerous stories of Snider being "embarrassed" about how the goalies were handled in the playoffs, and the reaction to that in the offseason.

Personally, I think the source of that "embarrassment" should have landed squarely in Laviolette's lap. He should have stuck with Bob and ran with the guy who got you there instead of panicking after one bad period. THAT is what bothers me most.

Day after day we talk about getting a top defenseman to soon replace Kimmo Timonen. This silly Mark Streit signing I believe doesn't help out cap situation, not to mention we have to extend Giroux. The biggest pressing question is, who is this top defender we are suppose to trade for? There'e nobody out there!!
- dingo8urbaby

It won't be anybody if they assume Ryan's $5M cap hit. Again, I could take or leave Ryan. If they bring him in, I would hope that the don't move the #11 pick and that they have done all they can to address the top-pairing Dman need. As the off season has not yet begun, who's to say who/what they can do to fill the need. If nothing else, The Flyers are aggressive (sometimes to a fault). Because there does not appear to us to be a top pair guy available, doesn't mean there is no possible deal out there. Let's wait and see before rushing out to get Ryan.

Jokes aside, you are right.

It's obvious Homer likes what Clowe brings to the table. For me, with anyone they bring, it's a question of not overpaying relative to the market.
- johndewar

but its FUN to overpay!

They just hike up your cable bill another $20 and all is well !

And we failed trying to make an impact move, To Be Fair. Again I'll ask, who is an available top defender out there the Flyers should target? We as fans normally know who our targets are going to be before they even get here. Timonen was rumoured by Eklund weeks before he got here. The Flyers chasing after Weber was a hot topic for over a year. If we're lucky enough to get a top defender, it will finally be nice to be surprised but it's unlikely because all the best are locked up, franchise players.
- dingo8urbaby

I don't think my lack of insider knowledge on who's available should be considered evidence nobody is available. The fact is that, since the Weber OS was signed and matched, that there hasn't been sufficient opportunity for circumstances to change, so of course there hasn't been an impact move. That's not to say I think one will absolutely happen this offseason, but it's absolutely too early to make this kind of judgement yet.

I'll say again, Letang is a UFA next year, so there's a possibility. Subban's not locked up either, he's got one year left on his contract.

EDIT: It also occurs that Edler has been discussed, so a trade for him isn't entirely unlikely. I don't think Myers is untouchable either, though the price will still be significant.

That's what they're saying about Toews... Concussion. Bergeron and Toews are both listed as questionable for tonight. I haven't heard anything definitive on Bergeron. Someone said ruptured spleen but that would be surgery not an over night stay.

I'd bet neither of them see much if any time the rest of the way.
- mayorofangrytown

On Bergeron, you can have a spleen injury where there is a smaller tear and sometimes these are just observed without surgery these days.
But he would have stayed overnight in the hospital if he had a small spleen laceration as they can bleed out quickly if things go wrong.
Did he stay overnight in the hospital?
Even if it was a non operative spleen injury he'd be out of hockey for 8 weeks.

i'm with you, and it's a valid point. i think the purpose of the article is to illustrate improvements in his game. it also reaffirms what we already knew - that he's got tremendous work ethic.
- hammarby31

I still think he'll be a very good (top 15 at least) NHL starter. Maybe not a perennial Vezina contender but anyone with Bob's work ethic plus talent has a chance at stardom.

Well if they buyout Bryzgalov, then it's valid certainly to call it a mistake. I don't beleive that if they had waited, that the contract would have looked any different. I think Bryzgalov had his demands, and that's what it took to sign him.

The deal was extended to lower the Cap hit. If they had wanted to sign him to a 5 year deal, they were looking at a Cap hit of over 7M.
- MJL

I see your point and just disagree. Especially in light of what Washington signed Vocoun for, I think they could have gotten him for less years and less cap hit had they been a little more patient, otherwise Bryz would have been playing in the KHL, or not at all. And yes, possibly somewhere else in the NHL.

Either way, it doesn't make me right or you wrong, its just a difference of opinion.

What REALLY troubled me about the whole thing was the numerous stories of Snider being "embarrassed" about how the goalies were handled in the playoffs, and the reaction to that in the offseason.

Personally, I think the source of that "embarrassment" should have landed squarely in Laviolette's lap. He should have stuck with Bob and ran with the guy who got you there instead of panicking after one bad period. THAT is what bothers me most.
- MBFlyerfan

I agree. We're wandering a bit from the scope of the 'desperation' debate, not that I mind.

If Hartnell is being traded for say Edler, then a Clough deal might make sense.
Otherwise Hartnell and Simmonds>>>Clough.

On Bergeron, you can have a spleen injury where there is a smaller tear and sometimes these are just observed without surgery these days.
But he would have stayed overnight in the hospital if he had a small spleen laceration as they can bleed out quickly if things go wrong.
Did he stay overnight in the hospital?
Even if it was a non operative spleen injury he'd be out of hockey for 8 weeks.
- Marc D

You know what I'm wondering? He sustained the injury, and then tried it on another short shift. And then he was on the bench for the rest of the period, if I remember correctly. If had sustained a spleen injury, that could've been dangerous. That's why I was surprised when they said he was taken by ambulance to the Hospital. Why did they wait?

If Hartnell is being trade for say Edler, then a Clough deal might make sense.
Otherwise Hartnell and Simmonds>>>Clough.
- Marc D

clowe with cooter would give cooter a lot of space

It won't be anybody if they assume Ryan's $5M cap hit. Again, I could take or leave Ryan. If they bring him in, I would hope that the don't move the #11 pick and that they have done all they can to address the top-pairing Dman need. As the off season has not yet begun, who's to say who/what they can do to fill the need. If nothing else, The Flyers are aggressive (sometimes to a fault). Because there does not appear to us to be a top pair guy available, doesn't mean there is no possible deal out there. Let's wait and see before rushing out to get Ryan.
- BOSS_TWEED

I'm all for Bobby Ryan. I am. The Flyers can score goals but I'm not seeing a timely, dynamic, pure goal scorer within our group. I think we do need that. I think if the game is close, and we're down, we need a guy we can go to and trust to pot an important goal for us.

As for our D, don't we have what we're going with? Sure we can improve but doesn't this look somewhat like an NHL defense so far? I'm just not seeing an available top Dman anywhere. I think we're all crossing our fingers and hoping for a miracle.

Based on what?

Voracek is 24 years old
Carter is 28 years old

I would do that trade 100 times over straight up , ignoring anything else that came from it.
- opeth_pa

Carter has a higher points per game average.

I'm all for Bobby Ryan. I am. The Flyers can score goals but I'm not seeing a timely, dynamic, pure goal scorer within our group. I think we do need that. I think if the game is close, and we're down, we need a guy we can go to and trust to pot an important goal for us.

- dingo8urbaby

Jakub Voracek. I don't doubt Giroux can find the twine more moving forward, too.

You know what I'm wondering? He sustained the injury, and then tried it on another short shift. And then he was on the bench for the rest of the period, if I remember correctly. If had sustained a spleen injury, that could've been dangerous. That's why I was surprised when they said he was taken by ambulance to the Hospital. Why did they wait?
- MJL

There is no way at the rink to diagnose a spleen injury.
You need a CT scan. Maybe an ultrasound could show it if its a full rupture.
They could suspect an injury based on where he hurt and how tender it was when they examined his abdomen, but a bruise to the left lower ribs could have the exact same physical findings.

If the spleen ruptures its different, you go into shock and they would have known right away and got him to surgery. But a smaller spleen injury then a full rupture would not be readily known until a CT was done.

Carter has a higher points per game average.
- Jimmygrazz

Not over the last two seasons, since the trade was made.

Carter's averaged 0.65 PPG, Voracek has averaged 0.833 PPG

Carter has a higher points per game average.
- Jimmygrazz

That is definitely not the case since the trade.

I don't think my lack of insider knowledge on who's available should be considered evidence nobody is available. The fact is that, since the Weber OS was signed and matched, that there hasn't been sufficient opportunity for circumstances to change, so of course there hasn't been an impact move. That's not to say I think one will absolutely happen this offseason, but it's absolutely too early to make this kind of judgement yet.

I'll say again, Letang is a UFA next year, so there's a possibility. Subban's not locked up either, he's got one year left on his contract.

EDIT: It also occurs that Edler has been discussed, so a trade for him isn't entirely unlikely. I don't think Myers is untouchable either, though the price will still be significant.
- BulliesPhan87

PK just won the Norris and is gonna be a RFA. I think it's safe to say he gets whatever he wants within his next contract. The Pens have plenty of options to move, to retain Letang. If the Habs and Pens can't make room to re-sign the two players who seem to be the cream of the crop of the NHL right now, there GMs aren't doing their jobs. They should be fired.

As for Edler, I'm not sold on him but I'll take him. In fact I like Tyler Myers more. With this said, I'm not giving up Brayden Schenn or Sean Couturier for either guy, which is gonna be the constant asking price.

The options are slim to none.

Based on what?

Voracek is 24 years old
Carter is 28 years old

I would do that trade 100 times over straight up , ignoring anything else that came from it.
- opeth_pa

This.

I remain unclear about why, exactly, anyone believes that the trading of Mike Richards to Los Angeles and the trading of Jeff Carter to Columbus are anything other than decisive victories for the Flyers in terms of quality, production and assets acquired.

If Ray Shero had made those same moves, or Ken Holland, those GMs would be viewed as miracle workers -- Jakub Voracek, as was pointed out earlier, has outscored Jeff Carter BY HIMSELF. Wayne Simmonds has outproduced Mike Richards BY HIMSELF.

One of the picks was used to acquire Nicklas Grossmann. Another for Nick Cousins, who finished fourth in the OHL in scoring this season -- and while he isn't expected to score at anywhere near that rate professionally, he remains a legitimate NHL prospect, should he continue to develop.

Sean Couturier and Brayden Schenn are still developing, but as Top 10 picks, each has value in either trade scenarios or if the fulfill their potential with the Flyers.

Again: If Ken Holland makes those trades, they're rolling out a red carpet, complete with rose petals and rainbows, for him to walk on to the Hall of Fame.

PK just won the Norris and is gonna be a RFA. I think it's safe to say he gets whatever he wants within his next contract. The Pens have plenty of options to move, to retain Letang. If the Habs and Pens can't make room to re-sign the two players who seem to be the cream of the crop of the NHL right now, there GMs aren't doing their jobs. They should be fired.

As for Edler, I'm not sold on him but I'll take him. In fact I like Tyler Myers more. With this said, I'm not giving up Brayden Schenn or Sean Couturier for either guy, which is gonna be the constant asking price.

The options are slim to none.
- dingo8urbaby

I'll just leave it at 'agree to disagree'. I absolutely don't agree that there's been substantial chance since the Weber OS for an impact move, end of story.

I'm all for Bobby Ryan. I am. The Flyers can score goals but I'm not seeing a timely, dynamic, pure goal scorer within our group. I think we do need that. I think if the game is close, and we're down, we need a guy we can go to and trust to pot an important goal for us.

As for our D, don't we have what we're going with? Sure we can improve but doesn't this look somewhat like an NHL defense so far? I'm just not seeing an available top Dman anywhere. I think we're all crossing our fingers and hoping for a miracle.
- dingo8urbaby

Yes, this looks like an average at best NHL defense. If no other changes are made, this likely will be serviceable if improvements in team defense also happen. I like Bobby Ryan as a player. However, if there is a deal to be made to further improve the back line, I think The Flyers should go that route over adding another scorer. Who is that guy you ask? I have no idea but in 2009 not many people expected them to add Pronger on draft day. The chatter was mostly about Bouwmeester. Deals can surface out of nowhere. As dialed-in as we all think we are, what we know is just the tip of the iceberg.