Giroux is AT BEST average defensively.

His game is offense. Richards is about as balanced as they come.
- jak521

I would have to respectfully disagree on that one too....G is an above average defender im sure he has his lapses but is above average for sure.

The one thing I know about Voracek, was that he came to the Flyers a wee bit out of shape and overweight... and took a few weeks to really get back to his top level.

Ill take our ppg dynamic right winger over paying for Bobby Ryan 25 days week.
- jak521

Who's your source? How does Jake Voracek go to Europe and play out of shape, the lockout ends, then he magically gets himself in shape in time for the NHL's regular season? How does this happen?

I would have to respectfully disagree on that one too....G is an above average defender im sure he has his lapses but is above average for sure.
- flyerfan28

Giroux also takes a lot of faceoffs in all areas of the ice. One being the defensive zone. So i have to agree with you.

I get so irritated at how Mike Richards and Jeff Carter are viewed as these central figures to one of the greatest teams ever to win a Stanley Cup.

They weren't. The Kings were huffing and puffing along in 2011-2012, with Dean Lombardi in serious jeopardy of getting fired if they had missed the playoffs. He had ZERO interest in, or intention of, spending more assets like Jack Johnson and a first-round pick to acquire Jeff Carter. None. He did that to try to get into the playoffs and save his job.

Once there, Jonathan Quick, Dustin Brown, Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, Matt Greene, Rob Scuderi and Willie Mitchell were all front-line players in that playoff run. They did all that heavy lifting.

That doesn't mean that Richards and Carters were fourth-liners -- they weren't. Each had big moments in the run. But in no way, shape or form are they difference makers -- they are quality players you can win with, but it is ludicrous for this perception to exist that they are these elite players you can put on the top line and win a Stanley Cup with.

We locals call that Sea Isle
- Jsaquella

i know what you call it.

I understand the logic, that it seemed the best option in their situation. But I think they let their perceived need cloud their judgement. They sought him out at, quite literally, all costs. We'll never know if he would've gotten this contract on the open market, but I think what the Flyers gave him would've been where the market topped out. Obviously, the results are factoring in here, and it's not fair to expect Flyers management to know the results ahead of time, but here's really how I see things went down:

-The Flyers were swiftly eliminated from the playoffs in a postseason with very high expectations
-The Bruins, the very same who'd eliminated the Flyers, win the Stanley Cup on the dynamo goaltending of Tim Thomas
-Ed Snider and management identify goaltending as the team's absolute need to be competitive, to the point they're willing to do whatever it takes
-The Flyers identify Ilya Bryzgalov as the best available goaltender, and target him
-The Flyers then got Bryzgalov at all costs, giving up resources to get him early, giving him what had to be every dollar he asked for, and even initiating major changes in the core of the team to make everything fit (not to say Bryz was the only reason for the Richards and Carter trades, and I do like the trades in their own right).

So before looking at results, we see a team that laser focused on one position, and then one player, and paid any and all costs to get him on the roster. For a team with a known 'win now' MO, I don't think it's a stretch to see this as desperate.

Additionally, I think it's fair at this point to consider the results to a degree. It's not so much that I expected management to see the future, but what we have is worth mentioning: an inconsistent goaltender who has only on occasion been a catalyst in keeping the puck out of our net, and a massive commitment of time and money to him.

Not to say I don't accept a difference of view here.

EDIT: Wow, this post was a LOT longer than I thought
- BulliesPhan87

certainly not a stretch. the agent recently said as much. if they just used vokoun to drive down bryz's price in an open mkt...you can't just stomp your feet and say, 'solve this problem now'. even if bryz was doing well, they paid too much, given mkt conditions.

I would have to respectfully disagree on that one too....G is an above average defender im sure he has his lapses but is above average for sure.
- flyerfan28

I wish he were... He is ok... but saying he is above average (in my mind) is letting you bias get the best of you.

- BulliesPhan87

harvey korman f'ng rules.

Who's your source? How does Jake Voracek go to Europe and play out of shape, the lockout ends, then he magically gets himself in shape in time for the NHL's regular season? How does this happen?
- dingo8urbaby

lol

There is no way at the rink to diagnose a spleen injury.
You need a CT scan. Maybe an ultrasound could show it if its a full rupture.
They could suspect an injury based on where he hurt and how tender it was when they examined his abdomen, but a bruise to the left lower ribs could have the exact same physical findings.

If the spleen ruptures its different, you go into shock and they would have known right away and got him to surgery. But a smaller spleen injury then a full rupture would not be readily known until a CT was done.
- Marc D

Something caused them to feel they had to send him to the Hospital in ambulance. What changed between the time he was sitting on the bench, not playing, and they made that decision? Obviously there was something that pointed to it being a serious injury.

I get so irritated at how Mike Richards and Jeff Carter are viewed as these central figures to one of the greatest teams ever to win a Stanley Cup.

They weren't. The Kings were huffing and puffing along in 2011-2012, with Dean Lombardi in serious jeopardy of getting fired if they had missed the playoffs. He had ZERO interest in, or intention of, spending more assets like Jack Johnson and a first-round pick to acquire Jeff Carter. None. He did that to try to get into the playoffs and save his job.

Once there, Jonathan Quick, Dustin Brown, Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, Matt Greene, Rob Scuderi and Willie Mitchell were all front-line players in that playoff run. They did all that heavy lifting.

That doesn't mean that Richards and Carters were fourth-liners -- they weren't. Each had big moments in the run. But in no way, shape or form are they difference makers -- they are quality players you can win with, but it is ludicrous for this perception to exist that they are these elite players you can put on the top line and win a Stanley Cup with.
- AllInForFlyers

With out Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, the Kings dont win that cup.

We locals call that Sea Isle
- Jsaquella

haha i actually like sea isle better than most other places

Something caused them to feel they had to send him to the Hospital in ambulance. What changed between the time he was sitting on the bench, not playing, and they made that decision? Obviously there was something that pointed to it being a serious injury.
- MJL

My immediate guess was clot.

I guess Kaberle is available now.

With out Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, the Kings dont win that cup.
- jak521

we'll never know...

I wish he were... He is ok... but saying he is above average (in my mind) is letting you bias get the best of you.
- jak521

How would you rate Max Talbot and Sean Couturier's defensive zone play? I would say they're pretty good. However, for some reason, Giroux takes most of the draws all over the ice. Why is Giroux most trusted on this team for defensive zone draws?

With out Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, the Kings dont win that cup.
- jak521

Without Jonathan Quick, Drew Doughty, Anze Kopitar and Dustin Brown, the Kings don't win that Cup.

Richards and Carter were no more valuable than Jarret Stoll and Willie Mitchell.

we'll never know...
- hammarby31

haha i actually like sea isle better than most other places
- stayinthefnnet

Outside of the appearance, people, green head flies and traffic, Sea Isle is awesome.

Well if they buyout Bryzgalov, then it's valid certainly to call it a mistake. I don't beleive that if they had waited, that the contract would have looked any different. I think Bryzgalov had his demands, and that's what it took to sign him.

The deal was extended to lower the Cap hit. If they had wanted to sign him to a 5 year deal, they were looking at a Cap hit of over 7M.
- MJL

If they had offered him 5 years, $30 million, which team was going to top that?

Outside of the appearance, people, green head flies and traffic, Sea Isle is awesome.
- Jsaquella

is the bridge b/t sea isle and avalon still closed?

How would you rate Max Talbot and Sean Couturier's defensive zone play? I would say they're pretty good. However, for some reason, Giroux takes most of the draws all over the ice. Why is Giroux most trusted on this team for defensive zone draws?
- dingo8urbaby

ooh ooh Ill answer! mmmm, because he is their best faceoff guy?

I disagree.
- dingo8urbaby

richards cup ring would disagree

How would you rate Max Talbot and Sean Couturier's defensive zone play? I would say they're pretty good. However, for some reason, Giroux takes most of the draws all over the ice. Why is Giroux most trusted on this team for defensive zone draws?
- dingo8urbaby

Because nobody else on the team was capable of winning faceoffs at a 50% clip.

Giroux was the only regular center who was over 50%. Next closest were Talbot at 47.9% and Briere at 45.9%.

A lot of times Giroux would be out for a draw and immediately leave the ice. Doesn't make him an above average defensive player.

I would have to respectfully disagree on that one too....G is an above average defender im sure he has his lapses but is above average for sure.
- flyerfan28

Giroux is definitely not an above average defensive player. Aside from faceoffs, his defensive play is average at best. And more times then not, below average. He needs to drastically improve in that aspect. Althought he's solid on the PK.