Keith is not physcial either. In reality, Leddy is more advanced than Keith at this age. Not making a direct comparison. Keith was 26 I think when he won the NOrris. To assume that Leddy will not continue to learn and strengthen is crazy.
- TrueGrit

How are you "not" making a direct comparison, when you directly compared Leddy to Keith?

And isn't it equally crazy to assume -- assume! -- that Leddy will continue to learn and strengthen? He may or he may not. We can all make an educated guess but either way, on either side, we're making assumptions based on past performance.

Keith is not physcial either. In reality, Leddy is more advanced than Keith at this age. Not making a direct comparison. Keith was 26 I think when he won the NOrris. To assume that Leddy will not continue to learn and strengthen is crazy.
- TrueGrit

Leddy will NEVER win Norris... Never.... His defensive positioning is good at best; any comparison to Keith is absurd...

Leddy is more a Campbell type defensemen. Great skating with puck out of zone; offensive updide; suspect defensive positioning.

It's a great point and i did mention that Nick played all 48 games and that should enhance his bargaining position. $3 years/$9 mil...MORE THAN FAIR.
- philco28

I agree

Wait! This is my personal Hockey Facebook page right?

I agree
- PEIHawkFan

I am telling you guys, just like I said their would be few first draft pick trades, this shruken Cap is a sufficient hinderance to their being poachers on RFA's

They just are setting themselves for the very same thing happening to their franchise.

I have to believe that basic code of respect on RFAs is still by and large in effect.

Think about last fall and Subban, a player that if you were gonna take a RFA shot, he gives you are more polished and closer to two way candidate.

Any true interest went into phoning Monteal and asking.

The only way we don't get to watch Leddy continue his upward spiral to an all around top four guys is if there is greed on his end.

They can argue until the cows come home after the qualifying offer, and threaten arbitration, the KISS of DEPARTURE for Leddy.

Sheehy know he is better off getting it done sooner instead of later, even though Bowman is the one also slowing ithe process by not showing that quick an earnest interest to JUMP to it...and the newly vacated Cap space give Stan that ability.

The gun is not there, and I think the Leddy side knows there is going to be NO tolerance for high $ posturing if they want to stay...

My ass....

Actually, just used the PK subban RFA deal signed right at beginning of this season. Did he get an offer sheet for more? Just think if he could have been had for 3.5?

Goes to my point that offer sheet fears are over blown.
- TrueGrit

I was referring to your cap increase number of $10MM next year - seems to high, a 15% increase over this year's full year value.

No qualifying offers yet for Hawk RFA's --making me nervous.

It's a great point and i did mention that Nick played all 48 games and that should enhance his bargaining position. $3 years/$9 mil...MORE THAN FAIR.
- philco28

I'd go 4 years/$12MM if I could - after Hjalmarsson gets a new contract next year and Toews and Kane in 2 years, basically the whole (remaining) core would be tied up thru 2017.

I expect the cap to go up by about $5MM - $7MM per year after next year - haven't done the math, but should be able to accommodate that.

Leddy will NEVER win Norris... Never.... His defensive positioning is good at best; any comparison to Keith is absurd...

Leddy is more a Campbell type defensemen. Great skating with puck out of zone; offensive updide; suspect defensive positioning.
- Nerko77

Not sure we've seen the finished product with Leddy and therefore not sure we can conclude just what type of D he will mature in to or if he will win a Norris. Has to be one of the best 22y.o. puck moving D in the NHL and therefore worth keeping.

I'd go 4 years/$12MM if I could - after Hjalmarsson gets a new contract next year and Toews and Kane in 2 years, basically the whole (remaining) core would be tied up thru 2017.

I expect the cap to go up by about $5MM - $7MM per year after next year - haven't done the math, but should be able to accommodate that.
- StLBravesFan

Reasonable 4 sure


Didn't bold that BTW or this

Reasonable 4 sure


Didn't bold that BTW or this
- philco28

What about THAT?

Leddy will NEVER win Norris... Never.... His defensive positioning is good at best; any comparison to Keith is absurd...

Leddy is more a Campbell type defensemen. Great skating with puck out of zone; offensive updide; suspect defensive positioning.
- Nerko77

That is not even the argument. Nobody mentioned Leddy winning a Norris. The point was that Leddy has far more NHL experience at a younger age. To assume he will not round into a better player is short sighted. He does not need to win a NOrris, he just needs to get better.

Is there no sense of proportionality with a lot of you. Leddy cut his teeth in the NHL. On a good team.

Hows this for perspective. How many of you are the same as you were when you were 21?

Wiz, any thoughts on where Drew Leblanc would have gone in this draft and how he compares to the guys we drafted?

I'd go 4 years/$12MM if I could - after Hjalmarsson gets a new contract next year and Toews and Kane in 2 years, basically the whole (remaining) core would be tied up thru 2017.

I expect the cap to go up by about $5MM - $7MM per year after next year - haven't done the math, but should be able to accommodate that.
- StLBravesFan

That's awful high. I wouldn't do this unless Hawks brass is sure he's a star in the making, then sure...do it. I don't know...some parts of Leddy's game are tantalizing, then other parts are not good.

Still, with Bolly and Frolly heading out I want few other defections (other than marginal players like Brookband, Mayers, etc). We get Krugs and Leddy signed up, maybe bring Rosy back and would be awesome if there were a few bucks to land a 4th line center to hit, win faceoffs and kill penalties (Hendricks is a popular name here, I'm good with that).

I'd also like Marcus Kruger to get a shot at L2-C. His game is far more complete than any of his supposed competition (Pirri, etc), he is insanely smart and does have a good feel in the offensive zone, has courage out the ass...if anyone deserves a shot to center world class stars like Sharp and Hossa it's a guy who has cut his teeth diving in front of pucks playing 4th line minutes. His faceoff game still is a work in progress, but he IS improving there. One thing you KNOW you will get with Kruger is smart, positional play and that line (with Hossa. Sharp) would be a seriously good defensive line at least.

Toews-Kruger-Shaw-Hendricks down the center wouldn't hurt my feelings.

I was referring to your cap increase number of $10MM next year - seems to high, a 15% increase over this year's full year value.
- StLBravesFan

Probably a stretch. But I would not be surprised to see it go back to last years number, but the trend will be up. The league did great in teh short season. With all the outdoor games and a concerted effort by both players and owners, the game will be in better shape.

Would not be surprised to see Phoenix move tomorrow to Seattle. That will help revenues too...

Keith involves himself in scrums, protects teammates and will engage. He's not Scott Stevens' redux that is certain, but Braveheart Keith will go INTO THE FIRE...Leddy will hang outside and call 9-1-1.
- philco28

Leddy's 22. He may have one bad break up and decide to start jumping in. Players can change. Campbell looked like a complete wuss in Buffalo. He became far less of one over time.

Leddy will NEVER win Norris... Never.... His defensive positioning is good at best; any comparison to Keith is absurd...

Leddy is more a Campbell type defensemen. Great skating with puck out of zone; offensive updide; suspect defensive positioning.
- Nerko77

Campbell was a finalist for the Norris just 2 years ago. Letang, Karlson, Yandle.... skating and offense are a good place to start. Leddy may be nowhere near those players now but he did show some good improvement with the right partner this year.

Al..can you honestly say with a straight face that Nick Leddy is going to grow into a physical d'man ? Perry Como looked like a serial killer compared to Sleepy Nick.

He will grow into something...hopefully a quality puck mover, who is a lot better defending his own goal, but PHYSICAL ? Don't see it.
- philco28

Never said that and Keith isn't a physical dman either...The game has changed but the MO here is not going to change though and he fits the profile of a Keith, Oduya...

Seabrook is a big guy and physical enough but he and Hammer aren't as physical as many.

Never said Leddy was going to be a bruiser but he will grow like Keith has and not get pushed around....That's all that he needs to do and that's within reach.

His strength is to skate and generate offense and a bull dozer he isn't now nor will he be in the future but it doesn't mean Leddy isn't worth paying.

Probably a stretch. But I would not be surprised to see it go back to last years number, but the trend will be up. The league did great in teh short season. With all the outdoor games and a concerted effort by both players and owners, the game will be in better shape.

Would not be surprised to see Phoenix move tomorrow to Seattle. That will help revenues too...
- TrueGrit

Over night road trip to Seattle/Emerald City will be in my future if it does happen.

How are you "not" making a direct comparison, when you directly compared Leddy to Keith?

And isn't it equally crazy to assume -- assume! -- that Leddy will continue to learn and strengthen? He may or he may not. We can all make an educated guess but either way, on either side, we're making assumptions based on past performance.
- flahawkfan

It helps to argue a point from the beginning.

I compared the two and...

They are comparable at 22....And back then people constantly beefed that Keith wasn't physical enough and he got manhandled in front of the net.


Another factor usually missed is to factor in age when comparing players....At 22/23 I see many similarities in Keith and Leddy's game.

I was here watching closely a few years ago.....and the complaints about Leddy are very much the same as I heard about Keith back then.

Leddy will NEVER win Norris... Never.... His defensive positioning is good at best; any comparison to Keith is absurd...

Leddy is more a Campbell type defensemen. Great skating with puck out of zone; offensive updide; suspect defensive positioning.
- Nerko77

Agree that he frustrates at times and can seem pretty dopey, but I would stop short of stating "never" about a guy with that big an upside. His speed and mobility are the flashy stuff of award winners, and with good coaching, consistently high expectations and being surrounded by grade A talent on the blueline all point in a good direction for him. Seabrook and Keith, not to mention the pizza man, still have their own momentary lapses as well. their experience bridges the gap and translates to better positioning. Leddy will get much better, and we will all be glad that he is streaking up the ice wearing the indian head rather than a winged wheel. Getting benched in the scf will be an important wakeup call for a kid who has likely been a hot dog since he put on skates. perfect third pair guy right now.

It helps to argue a poit from the beginning.

I compared the two and...

They are comparable at 22....And back then people constantly beefed that Keith wasn't physical enough and he got manhandled n front of the net.


Another factor usually missed is to factor in age when comparing players....At 22/23 I see many similarities in Keith and Leddy's game.

I was here watching closely a few yaers ago.....and the complaints about Leddy are very much the same as I heard about Keith back then.
- Al

Then they (complaints) were wrong...even back in the very early days Keith was NEVER like Leddy, at least defensively. I saw games in the UC when he first started. He got turned around some given his lack of experience and the fact the Hawks SUCKED, but the kid had courage and he played tough...even as a prospect Keith was NEVER considered a one trick pony...The ONLY knock on Keith back then was some concerns about his size. Keith was FAR better in his own zone at the same time. I think Leddy at the same age is a much better offensive d-man however.

Then they (complaints) were wrong...even back in the very early days Keith was NEVER like Leddy, at least defensively. I saw games in the UC when he first started. He got turned around some given his lack of experience and the fact the Hawks SUCKED, but the kid had courage and he played tough...even as a prospect Keith was NEVER considered a one trick pony...The ONLY knock on Keith back then was some concerns about his size. Keith was FAR better in his own zone at the same time. I think Leddy at the same age is a much better offensive d-man however.
- kwolf68

Keith got pushed around a lot..Just as Leddy does. The knock about his size went hand in hand with him not being able to clear palyers out and losing puck battles.

When I first saw Keith without pads he looked like a 170lb high school wrestler.

Slightly built....His strength and muscle mass has greatly increased in the last few years...But that comes with age.

I do agree Leddy is better offensively but not as good defensivley.

No, you don't...because 8's jock is in row 25.
- philco28

27*