I wish he had developed in the AHL rather than in the NHL.
- paulr

I agree with you. A guy who skates like Leddy doesn't get challenged much growing up. He doesn't have to think the game because he can blow by most opponents most of the time. But all of a sudden he's playing against men who can challenge him, coaches with a plan to run him all night long. He needs time to figure it out. I think it's a legit question as to his hockey IQ. I agree that it would have helped having him spend a lot more time in the A. The right partner would help him learn as well a coach that is a better teacher. If I'm Leddy I'm not sure that this coaching staff is the best one to take direction from. One of the other guys here suggested Housley. Good call, if anyone should be able to relate to Leddy it's Housley. Mentioned before I would prefer Yawney. Whatever transpires is going to be interesting. I wish him well.

Return of the Roar was the poster in question.
- EKolb13

And credit has been given where it is due. I was very pleasantly surprised with the outcome of the season, and in the spirit of humility which most of us learn to use with age, I changed my avatar. But I also did that because I think C2 was a stud in the Cup run, and a big part of their success.

It was fun while it lasted though

As most of you know, my primary beef was that I thought this team was not physically strong enough to prevail. What did come of this season was that it was not until this team played more physical that they found the level of success they needed to win. So the underlying premise proved to be true - skill and speed alone are not enough. A complete NHL team must have a gritty component to their game to maximize their success.

Now here is to a great year, and the hope that this Leddy mess gets sorted out in a way that will allow the FO to make the best moves they can. How much he gets paid dictates what is available for the rest of the dominoes in line.

Pirri has earned a chance to show what he can do.

Read in interesting story in the Toronto Star on the weekend. A professor at Simon Fraser University has been following the NHL draft for 10 years and concluded draft players is complete luck or bad luck. What seperates good teams from not so good teams is development.
- paulr

Totally agree. There is a huge intangible in player development, that is environment and organization success. All things are relative. When Ben Smith, Pirri, Morin etc...see that guys like Shaw, Leddy,, Saad, Kruger, have done well and succeeded, they know they can. They know they can play with those guys and that mental hurdle is smaller. It grows smaller, when coaches and organization put guys into positions to succeed. That is another huge intangible.

Lastly, when organizations promote guys, even in bits and pieces, it encourages development. In baseball and many other situations I have been close too, there often develops and attitude of no matter what I do, I will never be given a chance. That is because it is often true.

Turris held out, and ultimately got dealt and got a contract for more than he was worth, more than offsetting what he lost during his holdout. Not saying it will happen here, but it could.
- MartiniMan

Turris got less than he was hoping. In PHX, he was asking for something crazy..like $4M. He settled for a cap hit of 1.4 and got traded.

He just now cashed in and has a contract worth 3.5 through 2018. I would say he's worth that.

Like Brandon Pirri, who many say won't be able to play in NHL because of his success there.
- TrueGrit

I don't believe that he'll be successful in the NHL just from what I've observed in Rockford. Who knows, I could be dead wrong.

I didn't say anyone was an equal. I said if Toews and Kane wish to continue being a contender they have to take less so they can be surrounded with good complimentary players ... or you can have what Pittsburgh have, 3 players taking up almost 45% of the cap and a sub par group of support players.
- paulr

Sorry, I just get reactive when I see "Toews & Kane", as you so often see in sports media articles about the Hawks, as though they were peers, the "Big Two" or something... Your point is well taken.

When the time comes, I would hope that Captain Serious wants to stay in Chicago and is willing to work out a cap friendly deal with the best interests of the team in mind. But as fans, we can't control that, and if the time ever came when keeping Toews meant unloading Kane, then you would just have to do that. Kane is ultimately replaceable, if you had the right supporting cast mix. Toews is not.

Turris got less than he was hoping. In PHX, he was asking for something crazy..like $4M. He settled for a cap hit of 1.4 and got traded.

He just now cashed in and has a contract worth 3.5 through 2018. I would say he's worth that.
- eburgio

Does anyone know if Leddy is arbitration eligible?

True Grit was angry because a bunch of beach bullys stole his beach ball. I made them give it back and now TG has become more humble and less abrasive. So I deserve all the credit!
- paulr

Thank you, you forgot to mention that they kicked sand on my Stalberg jersey. You brought over the 8 year old girls and made them apologize.

That helped a lot too.

Does anyone know if Leddy is arbitration eligible?
- EKolb13

Nope. Must be four years in the league unless they signed their first EL contract after age 21. As it should be.

Some restricted free agents are eligible for salary arbitration, if the following conditions are met

For players signing their entry-level contract at age 18 or 19 (but who will not turn 20 in the same calendar year that the entry-level contract was signed), a season of professional experience is at least 10 NHL games played, and at least four such seasons must be accrued for arbitration eligibility.
For players signing their entry-level contract at age 20 (or who will turn 20 in the same year that the entry-level contract is signed), a season of professional experience is at least 10 professional (non-collegiate) games played, and at least four such seasons must be accrued for arbitration eligibility.
For players signing their entry-level contract at age 21 or older, arbitration eligibility comes at the expiration of a player's first contract.

Turris got less than he was hoping. In PHX, he was asking for something crazy..like $4M. He settled for a cap hit of 1.4 and got traded.

He just now cashed in and has a contract worth 3.5 through 2018. I would say he's worth that.
- eburgio

Agree to disagree. I don't think Turris thought he would get anywhere near $4M per year, he just wanted out of Phoenix so that's where he and his agent set the bar.

Have you guys seen/heard this?

its AWESOME, this guy goes nuts at the 4:00 min mark when bolland scores

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHcGlR4-dV0

Does anyone know if Leddy is arbitration eligible?
- EKolb13

No...fellas, read what i have written on this issue, it is not that big of a deal. It really is not too complicated. Risks are minimal.

And I will tell you all this. Any hiccups will be because of Leddy and his agent. Not the Hawks. He will get a fair offer. There is a decorum in any negotiating setting. There is no doubt FO and everyone believes in Leddy. They have invested a lot to get him to where he is now.

If I were Leddy, I would take the 2.5 - 3.0 mill for 2 years and have faith that the Chicago situation is best for his growth. As he continues to grow and improve, he will be able to call his next shot.

What if you were the Blues with Petrangelo? He is an RFA too. A much more polished defensemen. If you were a team, who would you go after with offer sheet?

I don't believe that he'll be successful in the NHL just from what I've observed in Rockford. Who knows, I could be dead wrong.
- EKolb13

Like when you said 15 years ago..."Whos going to watch porn on the internet?"

As most of you know, my primary beef was that I thought this team was not physically strong enough to prevail. What did come of this season was that it was not until this team played more physical that they found the level of success they needed to win. So the underlying premise proved to be true - skill and speed alone are not enough. A complete NHL team must have a gritty component to their game to maximize their success.

- Return of the Roar

All true. And the margin was razor thin, especially when down 3-1 to the Wings and 2-1 in the SCF. They became physical enough, but just barely. They also had one extremely fortuitous PP run against Detroit (I think it was a 3 for 8 stretch), then reverted to PP impotence again. I would hope that the FO doesn't get complacent about these areas just because they won the Cup, and I'm confident that they won't.

Like when you said 15 years ago..."Whos going to watch porn on the internet?"
- TrueGrit

I never said that.

Agree to disagree. I don't think Turris thought he would get anywhere near $4M per year, he just wanted out of Phoenix so that's where he and his agent set the bar.
- MartiniMan

I agree with the bolded. I'd probably want out of PHX too and there's no way he was worth $4M.

But your point was that he held out and got more to make up for holding out. His salary that first year of his second deal was $1.2M and his EL contract paid him 965k without the performance bonuses. So we're arguing semantics a bit here, but the Leddy comparable (if that's what the original point was) isn't really a comparable.

No...fellas, read what i have written on this issue, it is not that big of a deal. It really is not too complicated. Risks are minimal.

And I will tell you all this. Any hiccups will be because of Leddy and his agent. Not the Hawks. He will get a fair offer. There is a decorum in any negotiating setting. There is no doubt FO and everyone believes in Leddy. They have invested a lot to get him to where he is now.

If I were Leddy, I would take the 2.5 - 3.0 mill for 2 years and have faith that the Chicago situation is best for his growth. As he continues to grow and improve, he will be able to call his next shot.

What if you were the Blues with Petrangelo? He is an RFA too. A much more polished defensemen. If you were a team, who would you go after with offer sheet?
- TrueGrit

Little late to the discussion this morning, and I'm not going back through multiple pages of the thread to find out.

Just a simple yes or no question. I've got my answer. Thanks.

I never said that.
- EKolb13

Just kidding you know....

Little late to the discussion this morning, and I'm not going back through multiple pages of the thread to find out.

Just a simple yes or no question. I've got my answer. Thanks.
- EKolb13

Just in case you wanted it, here's the wiki page on Arbitration, it's definition and origins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration

I don't get it. Maybe it's just my issue. It's ok not to like a certain player or coach, think he's an idiot or whatever. However, I am baffled by the unwillingness of a few posters to give credit where credit is due.

While I disagree that anyone could have coached the Hawks to a Cup in 2010 this year is completely different. The streak to start the year was a nice surprise but my guess is if most people polled (at the start of the season) on this board believed this year's group was winning the Cup the result would have come back somewhere around 90% not in favor (me among them).

Like I said, just don't get the idea of not giving Q or Stan any credit or even grudgingly giving credit for the result this year. Like Mr. P keeps saying...We won the Cup!!!
- HawkintheD

I actually think it is pretty easy to understand. People don't like to admit when they are wrong. So instead, they shift their argument or become further entrenched on a position. For some, holding the same, albeit wrong, position is more "honorable" than admitting they are wrong.

Have you guys seen/heard this?

its AWESOME, this guy goes nuts at the 4:00 min mark when bolland scores

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHcGlR4-dV0
- FourFeathers773

That's great!!! Thanks. But since I don't speak Finnish, I have no idea what all the excitement was about. Something to do do with Bickell and Bolland? LOL.

EDIT: I know this is petty, but I still can't watch highlights of game 6 without absolutely cringing at DK's turnover before the Lucic goal. Maybe the worst pass by a Norris winner I've ever seen... I need to get over it.

Lot of NFL players do....no reason NHL players can't do the same. Easy for us to say TAKE LESS though
- philco28

Huge difference between the NFL and NHL, though. The contracts aren't guaranteed in the NFL so it is a lot easier to restructure the deal to open up cap space.

I'll give ya that one. The pp still defies logic. Disagree on Q. I know you have no beef with Crow but Fivineze was also someone I was alluding to in that post. Every goal that went in was CC's fault...defies logic!
- HawkintheD

No prob with you disagreeing, either; you have your reasons and I have mine. Agree on Fivineze ... so much hate he turns a blind eye to reason. Hell, I've despised Bicks n Leddy their entire careers, but when they've improved you have to recognize their importance to the team.

Just kidding you know....
- TrueGrit

I know. You could have used the sarcasm font and made it easier on me...

I actually think it is pretty easy to understand. People don't like to admit when they are wrong. So instead, they shift their argument or become further entrenched on a position. For some, holding the same, albeit wrong, position is more "honorable" than admitting they are wrong.
- QStache

We should all jump back on the Stan is a dope, Q should be fired, and Crawford is a horrible goalie bandwagon?

I am glad they won so some of those story lines will be mute for a little bit.