Throw in Coots.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Throw in Schultz

emery is looking for a 3 year deal from what it sounds like.
- moylander

Emery is still at a decent age and hasn't shown much signs of injury in a while. Some but not as much as one would think. Money worries me more then years with Ray Emery.

Homler does do stuff that 29 other GM's wouldn't do. Sometimes it's crazy. other times, perhaps not so much. Time will tell. I don't believe either Vinny or Street gave us a desirable town discount. Homler overpaid for both. Maybe it'll work out. It still remains to be seen.

No other Gm was prepared to give Vinny 5 years at that price, hence, he's here.

No other team was willing to give Straight 4 years at that price, hence, he's here.

What I do know is by the time you're into your 30's, your ceiling has been met and your skills will not be getting better. By the time you're 35, those skills, either because of age or injury (potential or a culmination of those throughout the years), will slide even quicker. Therefore, as a GM, you're paying good money and taking up valuable space during those years for an asset that is quickly depreciating.

IMHO, never a good idea.
- 77rams

There's some comments here, that I have to differ on. I'd like to know what Holmgren does, that 29 other GM's don't do. And secondly, I think it's incorrect that not other team was prepared to give Lecavalier what the Flyers gave him. With Lecavalier already having his CBO paychecks coming in, I don't think money was the only deciding factor.

And the question isn't so much about an asset depreciating. It's is that asset still a good player worth what he's getting paid.

Two classic examples are Kimmo Timonen, and Chris Pronger. Pronger was not the player here, that he was when he was winning the Norris and Hart Trophy. Timonen over the years, is not the player he was in his prime. But he's still a dam good player.

Throw in Schultz
- Winning

Done.

N.Schultz, Eberle for Coburn and Couturier.

Throw in Coots.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Flyer's aren't chasing this deal.

Done.

N.Schultz, Eberle for Coburn and Couturier.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Schultz is expiring no thanks.

Flyer's aren't chasing this deal.
- cfish99

They should. It really just makes sense. Philly kids wanna see a winning team. Think of the children.

Done.

N.Schultz, Eberle for Coburn and Couturier.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

no deal

no deal
- Winning

It was your proposal. Cant back out now. Sry.

no deal
- Winning

They should. It really just makes sense. Philly kids wanna see a winning team. Think of the children.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

We just signed a second line center. Coots is a better fit at third than Eberle is.

It's Vinny's agent's responsibility to place him in the best possible light. He's rightly praising the Flyers organization.

Tell me you've never heard an agent say the same exact thing time after time after their FA signed with whomever they signed with.

Or in the alternative, when was the last time you heard an agent say "we signed here simply because they offered the most money though this wasn't the team on the top of our list".?

Find me that quote and I'll man up and agree I'm wrong.
- 77rams

Here's how I see it. Maybe you have a point that he can't prove that he could've gotten more money from someone else. But the flip side is, that you can't prove your earlier statement that he's here because he got a deal that no other team would give him.

He has shown flashes of being one of the best in the league. As with that article I showed you that you shot down with the totally correct reasoning that it was only a 20 game sample or something like that. But there's the flash. Over 20 or so games, Couturier was one of the best in the league.
- JAKEw1234

Best at what? Being slotted by Lavy against tougher opposition? If anything that's a commentary on Lavy...and in retrospect, you have to ask, was it the best idea to put your young prospect in such a position?

If Coots had excelled and kept that tougher opposition off the scoresheet that's one thing, but the mere fact that Lavy put him into those positions doesn't indicate how competent he was in handling it, which, it turns out, wasn't that well. When you look, there are many many forwards who faced similar or better competition while allowing less goals while on the ice...Datsyuk is pretty much at the top of the list terms of that ratio (of RelQualComp to GA/ON60), while providing potent offense. Coots is like 60th or something in that ratio, and doesn't have the offensive game to compare...sthen there's PK, and faceoffs, where he lags...so again, a looooong way to go to Selkesville for the young man imo...I hope he gets there someday.

Tossed an edit in there.

I don't think his defensive game is overrated at all. You're right, he does have a long way to go to being the Selke caliber player he can be (call it an opinion, if you want). But that should be expected, he's only played a season and a half in the NHL.
- BulliesPhan87

It's about potential. It's clear to see that his defensive instincts and his defensive game is special, for a player of his experience level. Majority of the time, for young players, the faceoff percentage comes over time. You don't need to look at advanced stats, or anything else. You just have to watch the kid play. That's the problem with advanced stats. It's not a substitute for actually watching the game. And they lack context a lot of times. All you have to do to see that the kid is special, is watch the games. That's why the Flyers drafted him with the 8th overall pick.

he's 20.

He's definitely one of the top 2 or 3 defensive forwards on this team, at least.
- JAKEw1234

He's thee top defensive forward in my opinion, on the team. No doubt.

We just signed a second line center. Coots is a better fit at third than Eberle is.
- cfish99

Eberle isnt a center...not that we'd trade him anyways.

He's thee top defensive forward in my opinion, on the team. No doubt.
- MJL

Maybe in a few years..

...

It's about potential. It's clear to see that his defensive instincts and his defensive game is special, for a player of his experience level. Majority of the time, for young players, the faceoff percentage comes over time. You don't need to look at advanced stats, or anything else. You just have to watch the kid play. That's the problem with advanced stats. It's not a substitute for actually watching the game. And they lack context a lot of times. All you have to do to see that the kid is special, is watch the games.
- MJL

Is it a "problem" if you both "watch the kid play" AND look at advanced stats?

Yeah, I watched...saw some flashes of good stuff...but I also saw the turnovers, the numerous blown coverages and other such plays that resulted in goals against or near misses. The sluggish at times play on the PK. Yes, we all saw how he got up for playing Malkin a couple of times...but where's that player for the other teams they face? Nobody knows yet if this is this like how Bundy could get up for Jagr or if he's going to develop the ability to consistently shut down the opposition's best...because (as the advanced stats show) he surely isn't doing that now.

That's why the Flyers drafted him with the 8th overall pick.
- MJL

No, a player that was once projected to be a top 3 pick fell to them at 8. That's why they drafted him.

It's about potential. It's clear to see that his defensive instincts and his defensive game is special, for a player of his experience level. Majority of the time, for young players, the faceoff percentage comes over time. You don't need to look at advanced stats, or anything else. You just have to watch the kid play. That's the problem with advanced stats. It's not a substitute for actually watching the game. And they lack context a lot of times. All you have to do to see that the kid is special, is watch the games. That's why the Flyers drafted him with the 8th overall pick.
- MJL

ty

There's some comments here, that I have to differ on. I'd like to know what Holmgren does, that 29 other GM's don't do. And secondly, I think it's incorrect that not other team was prepared to give Lecavalier what the Flyers gave him. With Lecavalier already having his CBO paychecks coming in, I don't think money was the only deciding factor.

And the question isn't so much about an asset depreciating. It's is that asset still a good player worth what he's getting paid.

Two classic examples are Kimmo Timonen, and Chris Pronger. Pronger was not the player here, that he was when he was winning the Norris and Hart Trophy. Timonen over the years, is not the player he was in his prime. But he's still a dam good player.
- MJL

First, bids against himself and hand out excessive contracts.

Second, my guess is that Homer's offer was tops among the short list given by Vinny to his agent. We'll probable never know, though.

Regarding assets, true. But history shows players tend to break down more often and their talents decrease as they get older. Two classic examples: Kimo and Pronger.

Here's how I see it. Maybe you have a point that he can't prove that he could've gotten more money from someone else. But the flip side is, that you can't prove your earlier statement that he's here because he got a deal that no other team would give him.
- MJL

Sorry that conversation was a while ago...but I think my point was regarding what an agent will say to place his client in the best possible light with the city the players signs with.

You're correct. I can't prove anything. Nor can anyone else except those privy to the negotiations, of which there are none here

ty
- PT21

You're welcome. It's pretty clear to see. If you take a very good defensive defenseman. Put him on a team that is poor overall defensively. Isn't a very good 5 on 5 team. And spends large amounts of time defending in their own zone. And use that player to match up against the opposition's top line and top players, in defensive situations the majority of the time. How good would you expect the numbers to look? The question is, now take a lesser defensive player and put him in the same role, and the same situations. What's going to happen? It's not a hard game to figure out. And it's not hard to figure out that Couturier's hockey sense and defensive awareness for a kid his age is special. And he is the best defensive forward on the team, at 20 years old. And he has the chance to go on and be not just the top defensive forward on his team. But one of the top defensive forwards period, in the entire League.

Glad to see the Flyers trying to lock Giroux up already.