I'm tellin you dude, keeping Read doesn't make sense. he fits into our lineup on the 3rd line. If he plays on the 3rd line next year, he's going to test the UFA market next offseason and we'll lose him with no return.
- JAKEw1234

I think it will have a lot to do with money. Read hasn't made much money yet. I won't blame him for taking more to go somewhere else.

I don't mind if they break up the young core to fix the goaltending or defense which is the only option they have at this point, however their going to give up the more frugal deals and get married to these albatross deals. Vinny isn't a steal with that contract. You guys are saying based on the market... (frank) the market it is utter garbage right now let someone else eat up their cap. This is like playing poker sometimes you fold sometimes you hold the flyers got dealt a 3 of clubs and 9 of hearts, went all in, stupid.
- JoeRussomanno

Russo, would you be in favour of them doing what Colorado has been doing the last few years for example?

I am in general, in favour of this approach, keeping the young core together and adding some pieces to stay competative. However I do have my doubts, and sometimes, I do get a vibe that a full on REAL rebuild is needed. Not this half ass kind of stuff.

The one thing I never really like, is giving the young kids huge deals early in their careers, along with the pressure of the C (face of the franchise).

I don't mind if they break up the young core to fix the goaltending or defense which is the only option they have at this point, however their going to give up the more frugal deals and get married to these albatross deals. Vinny isn't a steal with that contract. You guys are saying based on the market... (frank) the market it is utter garbage right now let someone else eat up their cap. This is like playing poker sometimes you fold sometimes you hold the flyers got dealt a 3 of clubs and 9 of hearts, went all in, stupid.
- JoeRussomanno

You can call the market garbage, but that doesn't make it go away. To get a player of Lcavalier's ability and pedigree. It's a steal, no matter how you look at it. To not like it is to not like it, well just because.

There is not reason why Lecavalier and Streit can't continue to play at a high level until the end of their deals. And you haven't elaborated on the Giroux situation. With all due respect Joe, you haven't given one valid argument against the deal. I'm trying to be open minded here. I can show you in multiple ways how the Giroux deal is a great deal for the Flyers.
- MJL

Even if Giroux slows down, he will still be a great PP player because of his creativity and passing ability. He will also be very good on face-offs. He's already at 55%

I'm tellin you dude, keeping Read doesn't make sense. he fits into our lineup on the 3rd line. If he plays on the 3rd line next year, he's going to test the UFA market next offseason and we'll lose him with no return.
- JAKEw1234

My thing with Read is this. He is the kind of versatile player you need to win a cup. Even if he gets paid more. He is one of the VERY FEW forwards on the team that actually plays good D.

I would be kind of annoyed if they kept a guy like Grossman or Coburn around, just to stay "competative" and lost a guy like Read.

Would you rather have Hossa or Lecavalier? I know money will be different but still
- PhillySportsGuy

Hossa. But that's really besides the point. it's about what the Flyers projected needs would be next off season.

There is not reason why Lecavalier and Streit can't continue to play at a high level until the end of their deals. And you haven't elaborated on the Giroux situation. With all due respect Joe, you haven't given one valid argument against the deal. I'm trying to be open minded here. I can show you in multiple ways how the Giroux deal is a great deal for the Flyers.
- MJL

You can call the market garbage, but that doesn't make it go away. To get a player of Lcavalier's ability and pedigree. It's a steal, no matter how you look at it. To not like it is to not like it, well just because.
- MJL

Thank you the voice of reason

There is not reason why Lecavalier and Streit can't continue to play at a high level until the end of their deals. And you haven't elaborated on the Giroux situation. With all due respect Joe, you haven't given one valid argument against the deal. I'm trying to be open minded here. I can show you in multiple ways how the Giroux deal is a great deal for the Flyers.
- MJL

Let's be real they're going to not play at a high level into their late 30's, and it's all good if you guys don't agree just don't act like the flyers tend to get bit in the ass constantly with these big deals. I mean they were just given the gift of two amnesty buyouts I seriously doubt they have such a luxury this time around if things go south.

Russo, would you be in favour of them doing what Colorado has been doing the last few years for example?

I am in general, in favour of this approach, keeping the young core together and adding some pieces to stay competative. However I do have my doubts, and sometimes, I do get a vibe that a full on REAL rebuild is needed. Not this half ass kind of stuff.

The one thing I never really like, is giving the young kids huge deals early in their careers, along with the pressure of the C (face of the franchise).
- flyer_nutter

Sometimes when you do that, the kids never grow up like they should. They are given too much pressure. Lecavalier may help take pressure off of guys like Schenn and Couturier. That may help their development.

Not all young players can handle it.

I'm tellin you dude, keeping Read doesn't make sense. he fits into our lineup on the 3rd line. If he plays on the 3rd line next year, he's going to test the UFA market next offseason and we'll lose him with no return.
- JAKEw1234

Read can play 16-18 minutes a night on the so called 3rd line. A player like him, is interested in security. If you offer him a good deal, he'll sign. Regardless of what line he's playing on.

Let's be real they're going to not play at a high level into their late 30's, and it's all good if you guys don't agree just don't act like the flyers tend to get bit in the ass constantly with these big deals. I mean they were just given the gift of two amnesty buyouts I seriously doubt they have such a luxury this time around if things go south.
- JoeRussomanno

Again, why not? There are countless players that are playing at a high level into their late 30's. Again, were back to they aren't going to, well just because.

Let's be real they're going to not play at a high level into their late 30's, and it's all good if you guys don't agree just don't act like the flyers tend to get bit in the ass constantly with these big deals. I mean they were just given the gift of two amnesty buyouts I seriously doubt they have such a luxury this time around if things go south.
- JoeRussomanno

Lecavalier and Streit are risky deals. Compared to the market those are pretty good deals. Just have to hope they can hold up. Will see what happens.

Russo, would you be in favour of them doing what Colorado has been doing the last few years for example?

I am in general, in favour of this approach, keeping the young core together and adding some pieces to stay competative. However I do have my doubts, and sometimes, I do get a vibe that a full on REAL rebuild is needed. Not this half ass kind of stuff.

The one thing I never really like, is giving the young kids huge deals early in their careers, along with the pressure of the C (face of the franchise).
- flyer_nutter

They need to do something different I'm tired of doing the something's over and over expecting different results, locking up old players or players who appear to be the guy or the guy is good but they overpaid him and can't put anyone around him. Really I feel like I'm trying to tell a bunch if battered women not to go back... Fine go back don't cry to me when homer and snider blow your teeth down your throat.

Sometimes when you do that, the kids never grow up like they should. They are given too much pressure. Lecavalier may help take pressure off of guys like Schenn and Couturier. That may help their development.

Not all young players can handle it.
- PhillySportsGuy

True enough.

Just to make things a little wild though. The organization seems to have hung its long term hopes on the core of Giroux, Voracek, Coots, Schenn Bro's and to a lesser degree Simmonds.

If some of those players have down years next year, or dont really break out, (Coots and Brayden in particular), what do they do next off-season?

I like a lot of the pieces in that core, but at times, I do wonder if even after developing they will be good enough. Ideally Richards and Carter were awesome "secondary" type players. I have a weird gut feeling that a lot of that core, will mainly be the same kind of "secondary talent".

I don't mind if they break up the young core to fix the goaltending or defense which is the only option they have at this point, however their going to give up the more frugal deals and get married to these albatross deals. Vinny isn't a steal with that contract. You guys are saying based on the market... (frank) the market it is utter garbage right now let someone else eat up their cap. This is like playing poker sometimes you fold sometimes you hold the flyers got dealt a 3 of clubs and 9 of hearts, went all in, stupid.
- JoeRussomanno

It's not the only option they have at this point, they utilized another option in adding Streit, which allows them to work Gustafsson in without burying him in too much responsibility. Streit also provides coverage if Timonen retires.

Nobody is saying Lecavalier is a steal. But he's getting less than Stephen Weiss. And (frank) the market? Really? That's some shortsighted nonsense. The market dictates what gets paid, like it or not.

And in the case of Giroux, again the market dictates things. I find it hilarious that a guy can go from superstar in 2012 to "above average" after a down year that was team wide, in which he still averaged a PPG? This is the same kind of knee jerk stuff you are ragging on the Flyers for doing.

They need to do something different I'm tired of doing the something's over and over expecting different results, locking up old players or players who appear to be the guy or the guy is good but they overpaid him and can't put anyone around him. Really I feel like I'm trying to tell a bunch if battered women not to go back... Fine go back don't cry to me when homer and snider blow your teeth down your throat.
- JoeRussomanno

Being a bit dramatic Joe..Don't you think?

They need to do something different I'm tired of doing the something's over and over expecting different results, locking up old players or players who appear to be the guy or the guy is good but they overpaid him and can't put anyone around him. Really I feel like I'm trying to tell a bunch if battered women not to go back... Fine go back don't cry to me when homer and snider blow your teeth down your throat.
- JoeRussomanno

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed

They need to do something different I'm tired of doing the something's over and over expecting different results, locking up old players or players who appear to be the guy or the guy is good but they overpaid him and can't put anyone around him. Really I feel like I'm trying to tell a bunch if battered women not to go back... Fine go back don't cry to me when homer and snider blow your teeth down your throat.
- JoeRussomanno

I think you make some valid points. I just don't think the Flyers are going to sit still after not making the playoffs. They upgraded without having to trade any pieces.

Again, why not? There are countless players that are playing at a high level into their late 30's. Again, were back to they aren't going to, well just because.
- MJL

Really it's just a hunch... I tried to ignore this feeling with lindros, then Richards and carter then bryzgalov now Giroux , these big deals always bite them in the ass whether its the cap, the player gets hurt the media catches them having a threesome with another players wife and Lauren hart, whatever meanwhile they're lacking at the positions that win cups, defense and goaltending.

They need to do something different I'm tired of doing the something's over and over expecting different results, locking up old players or players who appear to be the guy or the guy is good but they overpaid him and can't put anyone around him. Really I feel like I'm trying to tell a bunch if battered women not to go back... Fine go back don't cry to me when homer and snider blow your teeth down your throat.
- JoeRussomanno

They are doing something different. They are in the same process of building the team around Giroux, and the players they traded for in the Ricahrds/Carter deal. And they have shown that they are reluctant to move those players. As I said to you earlier, they have not moved any of the core they identified in making the moves they've made. Do you not acknowledge that?

They need to do something different I'm tired of doing the something's over and over expecting different results, locking up old players or players who appear to be the guy or the guy is good but they overpaid him and can't put anyone around him. Really I feel like I'm trying to tell a bunch if battered women not to go back... Fine go back don't cry to me when homer and snider blow your teeth down your throat.
- JoeRussomanno

When I first joined this site I was pretty optimistic toward my view of the team. Things kind of changed for me over the last few years, and at times I really start to lean toward, your point of view. It doesnt make us less of fans.

At times I do think the biggest issue is overvaluing players, and the organization getting caught up in its own hype. I will give their current approach a shot, with 50/50 optimism, but in my heart I kind of do believe more than a half ass rebuild will be needed to bring the required level of star power into the team, and not building it around mainly overpaid "secondary talent".

We will see. A nutter's thoughts.

True enough.

Just to make things a little wild though. The organization seems to have hung its long term hopes on the core of Giroux, Voracek, Coots, Schenn Bro's and to a lesser degree Simmonds.

If some of those players have down years next year, or dont really break out, (Coots and Brayden in particular), what do they do next off-season?

I like a lot of the pieces in that core, but at times, I do wonder if even after developing they will be good enough. Ideally Richards and Carter were awesome "secondary" type players. I have a weird gut feeling that a lot of that core, will mainly be the same kind of "secondary talent".
- flyer_nutter

I think that core has already shown the ability to be good. Giroux and Voracek have been PPG players, Coots was great defensively in his rookie season, Simmonds is a very good net front presence on the PP. We will see what Schenn has to offer this season. I think we will see a very good Brayden Schenn. Less pressure playing wing with Lecavalier

Would you rather have Hossa or Lecavalier? I know money will be different but still
- PhillySportsGuy

While everyone was looking for away to improve the D further since the rights to Marc Streit were acquired, I was hoping for a splash up front. Originally wanted Bobby Ryan at the right price. Then when I noticed the Pens never resigned Iginla, I wanted him. Then there were rumours of Hossa being bought out, who I thought was an even better option. Getting straight to the point, I felt we were fine at center which was completely true. We have centers but we needed to upgrade at the dot. Hossa in my opinion is the better player as a whole the Lecavalier but Lecavalier fits here best.

Read can play 16-18 minutes a night on the so called 3rd line. A player like him, is interested in security. If you offer him a good deal, he'll sign. Regardless of what line he's playing on.
- MJL

I'm worried on how we'll sign him, though. As of this point we have $12,689,405 of room next off season, and we have Schenn, Coots, Read, Mason, and Emery (if we choose to bring him back) all to resign with that money. If Coots and Schenn both get $3.5 (and personally I think that's low balling) then we have $5.7 mil to resign Read, Mason, and Emery.