The Blues and their fans love Petro...........but he is not a $7 mil/yr player yet. If his agent plays hard ball, then this could drag out, but the Rangers just did the Blues a favor by signing McDonagh to a 6 yr deal at $4.7 AAV. Petro is a better player, but that deal would suggest Petro should be in the $6 mil range, not $7 mil range at this point. I would say there is a 90% chance they get him signed, and a 10% they decide to trade him.........and if they trade him, I'd feel pretty confident with Armstrong getting a great return. This won't be a Chris Pronger giveaway trade..........uggghhhh

He's better than Letang. And he's younger. If he's your #1 for the future, just pay the man. Don't go, "Hey Alex, we think you're a Norris-caliber defenseman and we want your here for your career. How's $6.5M sound for 8 years with a cap that's going to increase every year for the length of the deal?" That's a straight-up insult to the man. If I were his agent, I'd tell AP, "The Blues are toying with you, you can get a ton more for a long length from teams willing to spend it." If he's your man, just pay him what he's worth and move on. If not, don't act shocked or surprised when he signs a 7-year offer sheet for $7.5M per.
- jmatchett383

Then the Blues will just match it, no big deal.

Someone has yet to point out a good reason to give Petro the type of money he MIGHT receive on an offer-sheet. If Blues are forced into paying more than they want, so be it. But you don't just hand out to RFA's the sort of money they would be getting as UFA's. Letang was a Norris finalist and got 7.25 going into UFA. Karlsson was a Norris winner and got 6.5 going into RFA. Petro has never even been a finalist, and is going into RFA.

He's better than Letang. And he's younger. If he's your #1 for the future, just pay the man. Don't go, "Hey Alex, we think you're a Norris-caliber defenseman and we want your here for your career. How's $6.5M sound for 8 years with a cap that's going to increase every year for the length of the deal?" That's a straight-up insult to the man. If I were his agent, I'd tell AP, "The Blues are toying with you, you can get a ton more for a long length from teams willing to spend it." If he's your man, just pay him what he's worth and move on. If not, don't act shocked or surprised when he signs a 7-year offer sheet for $7.5M per.
- jmatchett383

Wow, offering a 23-yr old an 8-yr deal worth $6.5 mil/yr.......$52 mil in total.......would be an insult? Man, when did the NHL get to this point? It just shows the system is still screwed up. (not taking a shot at you, jmatchett383.....my issue is with the system).

Then the Blues will just match it, no big deal.

Someone has yet to point out a good reason to give Petro the type of money he MIGHT receive on an offer-sheet. If Blues are forced into paying more than they want, so be it. But you don't just hand out to RFA's the sort of money they would be getting as UFA's. Letang was a Norris finalist and got 7.25 going into UFA. Karlsson was a Norris winner and got 6.5 going into RFA. Petro has never even been a finalist, and is going into RFA.
- Antilles

A good reason? To not piss him/his agent off. There comes a point when your offer is seen as an insult. Again, if you truly believe (which the Blues and the rest of the NHL seem to) that he's a top-5 dman in the league, and he's only going to get better, and the salary cap is going to rise over the length of his deal, just pay the man and put it behind you. Don't keep trying to cheapen the deal.

Clearly you didn't notice where I said understandable on them trying to get him cheaper. Well done.
- kingcong39

Clearly you didn't either considering you said "Count me as another that doesn't understand." Contradicting yourself and talking out of both sides of your mouth suggests you don't know what's going on well enough to form an actual opinion. Don't get upset when people help explain things to you when you make that sort of post.

Then the Blues will just match it, no big deal.

Someone has yet to point out a good reason to give Petro the type of money he MIGHT receive on an offer-sheet. If Blues are forced into paying more than they want, so be it. But you don't just hand out to RFA's the sort of money they would be getting as UFA's. Letang was a Norris finalist and got 7.25 going into UFA. Karlsson was a Norris winner and got 6.5 going into RFA. Petro has never even been a finalist, and is going into RFA.
- Antilles

your exactly right....they will not let him go via offer sheet....ain't gonna happen....He will get signed ....it's just a matter of how much and for how long and if there will be a NMC in there....If it ever came to a trade the deal would be a huge return.....I just don't see it happening.

Wow, offering a 23-yr old an 8-yr deal worth $6.5 mil/yr.......$52 mil in total.......would be an insult? Man, when did the NHL get to this point? It just shows the system is still screwed up. (not taking a shot at you, jmatchett383.....my issue is with the system).
- GSimp1

That may be, but it's how it is. His market value is $7.25M/year on a 7-year deal minimum. His agent knows this. The Blues know this. If he can't get it from the Blues, I'm sure his agent can contact teams that are willing to pay it. Then the Blues can end up acting all shocked and offended when they pay their player what he's worth.

A good reason? To not piss him/his agent off. There comes a point when your offer is seen as an insult. Again, if you truly believe (which the Blues and the rest of the NHL seem to) that he's a top-5 dman in the league, and he's only going to get better, and the salary cap is going to rise over the length of his deal, just pay the man and put it behind you. Don't keep trying to cheapen the deal.
- jmatchett383

It's not insulting to offer someone who has never been a finalist for the Norris the same money as someone who has won it when they are at the same point in their careers.

That may be, but it's how it is. His market value is $7.25M/year on a 7-year deal minimum. His agent knows this. The Blues know this. If he can't get it from the Blues, I'm sure his agent can contact teams that are willing to pay it. Then the Blues can end up acting all shocked and offended when they pay their player what he's worth.
- jmatchett383

Flyers fans really need to start looking at players, figure out what Holmgren would pay them, then subtract somewhere between half a million and a million to figure out what a players market value is. One GM with a tendency to spend like a drunken sailor is not where market value is set.

Read the list he posted again.

See that first name? Brayden Schenn? In case you hadn't noticed from visiting Bill's blog, most of us mind "dumping" him. We mind very much indeed.

Alex Pietrangelo is one of the few players in the NHL who the Flyers need to the point where it's worth moving a guy like Schenn (not to mention the several other quite good assets. That package works out roughly to an offer of Sutter, Bennett, Orpik, Jarry, and your first next year from you guys.)
- dilbert719

The blues just need to offer a tiered deal. First 2 years 6.5 mil, years 3 & 4 7 mil, and the last 4 7.5 mil. It would carry a 7.125 mil cap hit. It would pay him his value for his age as he progresses. During his prime 27-31 he makes the most money. If i were him though i would just do a 4-5 year deal. He can secure a contract during his prime to pay him more during his years of decline. JMO.

Flyers fans really need to start looking at players, figure out what Holmgren would pay them, then subtract somewhere between half a million and a million to figure out what a players market value is. One GM with a tendency to spend like a drunken sailor is not where market value is set.
- Antilles

Does Holmgren over spend? Yes...but,

He's better than Letang...The Pens set the market value on Young talented D not Holmgren.

Clearly you didn't either considering you said "Count me as another that doesn't understand." Contradicting yourself and talking out of both sides of your mouth suggests you don't know what's going on well enough to form an actual opinion. Don't get upset when people help explain things to you when you make that sort of post.
- Antilles

While I understand trying to get him on the cheap, I agree with everything the Flyers poster is saying in that I would not screw around with him as I would offer him $7M and be done with it. I would not be messing around with my star player if I were the GM.

It's not insulting to offer someone who has never been a finalist for the Norris the same money as someone who has won it when they are at the same point in their careers.
- Antilles

Which player is that? PK Subban? You think AP would accept a 2-year deal at $2.875 per? Erik Karlsson, they man who won the "best offensive defenseman" award? AP's better (and much more valuable) than he is. They can't sign him to a contract like Keith's where he gets paid pennies at the end. Chara's contract is just under $7M and he's at the tail end of his career, not entering his prime.

That may be, but it's how it is. His market value is $7.25M/year on a 7-year deal minimum. His agent knows this. The Blues know this. If he can't get it from the Blues, I'm sure his agent can contact teams that are willing to pay it. Then the Blues can end up acting all shocked and offended when they pay their player what he's worth.
- jmatchett383

Yup, if Letang gets 7.25, I would say Pietrangelo is worth more. Letang has been shown to be pretty lacking in his own end and put up a lot of points on a team with a ton of offense.

There is no way Pietrangelo gets traded, especially not for a handful of "mediocre" pieces. Even good pieces aren't enough.

Too much effort being spent on speculating on the departure of Pietrangelo. He is not going anywhere. He will get very close to the money and term he has asked for. I can assure you Montreal now wishes that they had given Subban the long term he first wanted.

What will cause some speculation is what Armstrong will be looking to get in return for J.Bo.

It's not insulting to offer someone who has never been a finalist for the Norris the same money as someone who has won it when they are at the same point in their careers.
- Antilles

Being the finalist for the Norris is far from an end all be all when it comes to contract negotiations.

Does Holmgren over spend? Yes...but,

He's better than Letang...The Pens set the market value on Young talented D not Holmgren.
- Hype97

Letang was going to be a UFA, not a RFA. Makes a huge difference.

Which player is that? PK Subban? You think AP would accept a 2-year deal at $2.875 per? Erik Karlsson, they man who won the "best offensive defenseman" award? AP's better (and much more valuable) than he is. They can't sign him to a contract like Keith's where he gets paid pennies at the end. Chara's contract is just under $7M and he's at the tail end of his career, not entering his prime.
- jmatchett383

agreed

Letang was going to be a UFA, not a RFA. Makes a huge difference.
- Antilles

That is a very good point. But you can also argue that Letang is in/past his prime, while AP is about to enter his.

He's not taking $6M/year on an 8-year deal. He's a top-5 defenseman, he'll get paid like one. If you know the salary cap is set to rise, and you know what players that you're better than (Letang) are getting paid, then your long-term salary should take into consideration comparables and the expected rise in the cap over the duration of your deal. His salary will start with a $7
- jmatchett383

Letang was a UFA in one year; different leverage. Although I agree he'll get a contract in the Doughty range.

Letang was going to be a UFA, not a RFA. Makes a huge difference.
- Antilles

yeah but how does Montreal feel now about not locking up PK long term. That is gonna hurt after next year.

When you got a guy, you pay him, regardless.

Flyers fans really need to start looking at players, figure out what Holmgren would pay them, then subtract somewhere between half a million and a million to figure out what a players market value is. One GM with a tendency to spend like a drunken sailor is not where market value is set.
- Antilles

David Clarkson, Toronto, 7 years, $36.75M, $5.25/yr., modified NMC.
Sergei Gonchar, Dallas, 2 years, $10M, $5/yr.
Boyd Gordon, Edmonton, 3 years, $9M, $3/yr.
Ryane Clowe, New Jersey, 5 years, $24.25M, $4.85/yr.
Andrew Ference, Edmonton, 4 years, $13M, $3.25/yr, NMC.
Tyler Bozak, Toronto, 5 years, $21M, $4.2/yr, modified NTC.

Those are just a sample of the deals given out this offseason, setting aside nonsense from previous seasons like Jeff Finger. Holmgren spends like a drunken sailor, and has missed the mark a fair few times. There's no question of that. To claim he's the "one GM" with that tendency, though, given some of the ludicrous contracts that get handed out yearly in the NHL, by many teams?

yeah but how does Montreal feel now about not locking up PK long term. That is gonna hurt after next year.

When you got a guy, you pay him, regardless.
- Aetherial

That about sums it up for me. No Richarding around, just give him the $$ he deserves and put all this to rest. You KNOW he's gonna get it in the end, just like YOU KNEW what proposal was going to end the lockout. You can either do it now, or fool around for a month and open the door to worse possibilities (he may accept $7.125M but you end up paying $7.7M as a match).

Letang was going to be a UFA, not a RFA. Makes a huge difference.
- Antilles

RFA/UFA makes a huge difference for mid-level talent because other GM's aren't willing to dole out big bucks for them, but Elite players are aware that other teams covet them as well.

They know what they are worth and if you don't want to give it to them they know the Holmgrens of the world will.

So they wait to sign until the offer sheet comes their way and they get the money they want. Is that right? No but that's the way it works.

The only advantage you get from having an RFA is the ability to match once they don't take a qualifier and compensation if they go elsewhere. From a negotiation stand point him being an RFA doesn't make him obligated to take less money.

If you want the guy locked up long term (and you should) Then you'll need to over pay for the first few years and then get your value in his prime.