They vary because PP units often don't stay consistent from year to year Your proposal for moving him would be the reason he doesn't produce at the same rate.
- JAKEw1234

No, they vary because shooting %'s vary.

Brindy deserves to be in the HHOF but I don't think he gets in today even if they elect to only add two most obvious guys in Chelios and Niedermayer.

My bet would Chelios, Niedermayer, Shannahan, and one other get in. Who that one other is though is a complete toss-up. I think Lindros is most worthy and it is nice to see him getting some press over the past few days as well.

They vary because PP units often don't stay consistent from year to year Your proposal for moving him would be the reason he doesn't produce at the same rate.
- JAKEw1234

http://forecaster.thehock...ws/hockey/player.php?6042

Brindy deserves to be in the HHOF but I don't think he gets in today even if they elect to only add two most obvious guys in Chelios and Niedermayer.

My bet would Chelios, Niedermayer, Shannahan, and one other get in. Who that one other is though is a complete toss-up. I think Lindros is most worthy and it is nice to see him getting some press over the past few days as well.
- LordStanley88

If I had to bet on who the fourth would be, I think I'd split my money relatively evenly across Lindros, Housley, Blake, and nobody.

I just don't think he is a natural goal scorer. I don't think he will ever finish with more goals than assists. He has always been a better passer than shooter. His shooting percentage was way up last year. There is a good chance that will come back down to his norm this year.
- PhillySportsGuy

Over his whole career his goal numbers have been consistently going up while his assist numbers have been going consistently down. They were almost even now with 22 goals and 24 assists. And I don't think he will, mostly because his breakout wasn't just last season. His breakout started towards the end of 11-12, and continued all the way through 12-13. That's like what, 8 or 9 months of not playing after 11-12 and he still continued his breakout. That to me is a hint that maybe he's genuinely improved greatly as a player. There's no reason to believe his breakout won't continue into next season as well.

I think Voracek is our primary PP scorer, but that doesn't mean those things don't come intp effect as well. His carrying, his passing, and his shooting all come together to make him a beast of a PP guy. I just think we shouldn't be demoting that PP scoring beast to the 2nd unit and cutting his PP time.
- JAKEw1234

I agree. Voracek should be on the first unit with Giroux. But I'd move him to the half wall, and put Streit on the first unit with Timonen on the points.

I just don't think he is a natural goal scorer. I don't think he will ever finish with more goals than assists. He has always been a better passer than shooter. His shooting percentage was way up last year. There is a good chance that will come back down to his norm this year.
- PhillySportsGuy

You're probably right, but no PP purely consists of the best 5 goal-scorers on a team... a variety of skills are required.

Voracek's great at carrying the puck up the ice, gaining the zone w/ possession, he's great at finding teammates, and from his spot on the half-wall, he's able to sneak down low for backdoor plays. Those are all just as important as having a bomb.

He could improve as a right-side one-time threat (a la Jagr), but it's not like he doesn't have the tools to make that improvement.

I would be ok with keeping the same unit. I'm not going to argue with success, but I think putting Voracek on the 2nd unit and Vinny on the first would maximize the potential of both units.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think you can maximize both by keeping Voracek on the top line and moving Hartnell to the second with Vinny.

The top line you can have, Giroux playmaking passer, Simmonds in front for rebounds and screens, Schenn digging for pucks, and VOracek and Timomen on the point with VOracek dropping down for the shot.

Second unit will have Lecavalier keeping the attack in the offensive zone, being the QB. Read drifting into scoring postions. Hartnell in front of the net for defelections, screens and rebounds, with Steits shot from the point, and Meszaros's shot or Coburn backing up Streit defesively so he can pinch more.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?6042
- PhillySportsGuy

That describes him as a scoring winger with a good shot... I'm not saying passing isn't one of his strong points, in fact the reason he's an amazing player is because he does it all, but you're trying to argue that he's not a good shooter when that's just not true. A bad or mediocre shooter typically doesn't lead a good offensive team in goals.

I agree. Voracek should be on the first unit with Giroux. But I'd move him to the half wall, and put Streit on the first unit with Timonen on the points.
- MJL

That i'd be very ok with. It would keep a great shot and smart quarterback at the point, and still give Voracek good opportunities to get into his scoring honey hole in the high slot.

I agree. Voracek should be on the first unit with Giroux. But I'd move him to the half wall, and put Streit on the first unit with Timonen on the points.
- MJL

I think that would be a mistake as then you would have no-one on the second unit with PP QB skills.

If I had to bet on who the fourth would be, I think I'd split my money relatively evenly across Lindros, Housley, Blake, and nobody.
- dilbert719

I hope Housley never gets in to be honest with you.

Over his whole career his goal numbers have been consistently going up while his assist numbers have been going consistently down. They were almost even now with 22 goals and 24 assists. And I don't think he will, mostly because his breakout wasn't just last season. His breakout started towards the end of 11-12, and continued all the way through 12-13. That's like what, 8 or 9 months of not playing after 11-12 and he still continued his breakout. That to me is a hint that maybe he's genuinely improved greatly as a player. There's no reason to believe his breakout won't continue into next season as well.
- JAKEw1234

I'm not downgrading Voracek. I think he is an all star level player. That's why I want to move him down to make the team more balanced. Giroux will produce points with almost anyone. Moving Voracek will make the overall team better. I like Voracek a lot. That's why I think he can control the play himself and doesn't need to play with another player like Giroux.

Do you think the Pens would be better with Crosby and Malkin on the same line or on two separate lines?

And there we go, straight from the Homer's mouth. "With Giroux, Lecavalier, and Couturier as your three centers, you're pretty good."

And there we go, straight from the Homer's mouth. "With Giroux, Lecavalier, and Couturier as your three centers, you're pretty good."
- dilbert719

He got borderline giddy there...

I think that would be a mistake as then you would have no-one on the second unit with PP QB skills.
- youarewrong

What happened to Mark Streit? Last time I checked he's a PP QB. What about Vinny? Pretty sure he can also do that. And Couturier? He definitely has the smarts.

He got borderline giddy there...
- Tomahawk

I know. I think I very nearly saw a smile.

That describes him as a scoring winger with a good shot... I'm not saying passing isn't one of his strong points, in fact the reason he's an amazing player is because he does it all, but you're trying to argue that he's not a good shooter when that's just not true. A bad or mediocre shooter typically doesn't lead a good offensive team in goals.
- JAKEw1234

If anyone doesnt think McGinn could play on the top line all I have to say is Steve Downey.

That said, I'm not even sure he makes the team. I think there is an equal shot of McGinn, Raffl, Straka, & Akeson all in the mix for a shot on the team. I think it will all come down to what position is open. I think in camp Hartnell gets first grab at the top line. He has played there and done well there in the past. If he has a poor camp then he will be moved down.

If the Flyers want to fill a top 6 scoring spot I think they will choose either Akeson, Straka, or McGinn.

If they want bottom 6 I think they will look for McGinn or Raffl.

What happened to Mark Streit? Last time I checked he's a PP QB. What about Vinny? Pretty sure he can also do that. And Couturier? He definitely has the smarts.
- JAKEw1234

They are more finishers. You will still need someone to control the play and carry the puck into the zone.

I'm not downgrading Voracek. I think he is an all star level player. That's why I want to move him down to make the team more balanced. Giroux will produce points with almost anyone. Moving Voracek will make the overall team better. I like Voracek a lot. That's why I think he can control the play himself and doesn't need to play with another player like Giroux.

Do you think the Pens would be better with Crosby and Malkin on the same line or on two separate lines?
- PhillySportsGuy

I thought we were talking about the PP? I'm an advocate of splitting Vora and G onto lines 1a and 1b. Not on the PP.

If anyone doesnt think McGinn could play on the top line all I have to say is Steve Downey.

That said, I'm not even sure he makes the team. I think there is an equal shot of McGinn, Raffl, Straka, & Akeson all in the mix for a shot on the team. I think it will all come down to what position is open. I think in camp Hartnell gets first grab at the top line. He has played there and done well there in the past. If he has a poor camp then he will be moved down.

If the Flyers want to fill a top 6 scoring spot I think they will choose either Akeson, Straka, or McGinn.

If they want bottom 6 I think they will look for McGinn or Raffl.
- youarewrong

Downey had more skill than McGinn. They are also totally different types on players. Downey was a more skilled version of Carcillo.

They are more finishers. You will still need someone to control the play and carry the puck into the zone.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's Streit's job description... And Lecavalier can control the play as well.

I thought we were talking about the PP? I'm an advocate of splitting Vora and G onto lines 1a and 1b. Not on the PP.
- JAKEw1234

I'm an advocate of both.

If anyone doesnt think McGinn could play on the top line all I have to say is Steve Downey.
- youarewrong

Downie was a 2pt/game player in his last couple of seasons in Junior... it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison there.

And there we go, straight from the Homer's mouth. "With Giroux, Lecavalier, and Couturier as your three centers, you're pretty good."
- dilbert719