Gotcha. Any link on how that works? Yes I'm being lazy.
- jmatchett383

Look under the FAQ section on Capgeek. And click on the part about how does LTIR cause Cap penalties.

http://www.capgeek.com/fa...LTIR-cause-bonus-overages

Teams requiring long-term injury relief to fit a roster under the salary cap throughout the season can be at risk of ending up with a bonus overage. That's because utilizing LTIR results in the team finishing the season with $0 cap space. For teams in these positions with players earning performance bonuses, those bonuses are tacked onto their final cap payroll as an overage and carried forward as a penalty the following season.

Some would argue that baseball has the most parity of the 4 major sports....no cap
- aosplayo

true i prefer the NFL system though hard cap with non guaranteed contracts. And you have to draft well.

Some would argue that baseball has the most parity of the 4 major sports....no cap
- aosplayo

I don't. The Atlanta Braves won, what, like 50 straight pennants. The Yankess are usually the AL East or Wild Card winner and won 4/5 World Series in the 90s. The Phillies won 5 straight NL East titles.

It seems like the NFL is pretty good, as there's usually a pretty good mix of teams that rise and fall every year. However, with their non-guaranteed contracts, I'm very confused as to how their cap works.

true i prefer the NFL system though hard cap with non guaranteed contracts. And you have to draft well.
- Marshalle

NFL: Patriots, Giants, Steelers, Ravens have won 9 of last 12 superbowls

NBA: Lakers, Spurs, Heat won 12 out of 15 titles

NHL its a little better, though Pitt, Boston, Chicago, LA seem to have their squads in it every year, similar cap to the NBA I think with having to match $

MLB 9 of last 12 World series have different winners, sans SF 2 out of last 3

....I do miss the bidding wars with the Flyers and Redwings though

Look under the FAQ section on Capgeek. And click on the part about how does LTIR cause Cap penalties.

http://www.capgeek.com/fa...LTIR-cause-bonus-overages

Teams requiring long-term injury relief to fit a roster under the salary cap throughout the season can be at risk of ending up with a bonus overage. That's because utilizing LTIR results in the team finishing the season with $0 cap space. For teams in these positions with players earning performance bonuses, those bonuses are tacked onto their final cap payroll as an overage and carried forward as a penalty the following season.
- MJL

If I understand it correctly, it seems like the best idea is to place the player on LTIR (especially in Pronger's case, where he won't be coming back) when the team is as close to the cap as possible, as they would get the most savings/excess. Correct?

NFL: Patriots, Giants, Steelers, Ravens have won 9 of last 12 superbowls

NBA: Lakers, Spurs, Heat won 12 out of 15 titles

NHL its a little better, though Pitt, Boston, Chicago, LA seem to have their squads in it every year, similar cap to the NBA I think with having to match $

MLB 9 of last 12 World series have different winners, sans SF 2 out of last 3

....I do miss the bidding wars with the Flyers and Redwings though
- aosplayo

Sorry let me clarify, I don't care about parity, I prefer the structure of the NFL system more than any of the others.

If I understand it correctly, it seems like the best idea is to place the player on LTIR (especially in Pronger's case, where he won't be coming back) when the team is as close to the cap as possible, as they would get the most savings/excess. Correct?
- jmatchett383

Yeah.... as close to the cap as they can get, without going over is where they want to be before day 1 of the season.

(If they plan to eat into LTIR right away, that is)

If I understand it correctly, it seems like the best idea is to place the player on LTIR (especially in Pronger's case, where he won't be coming back) when the team is as close to the cap as possible, as they would get the most savings/excess. Correct?
- jmatchett383

That's correct. If the Flyers placed Pronger on LTIR and had 5M in cap space, it would not give them any extra space.

Sorry let me clarify, I don't care about parity, I prefer the structure of the NFL system more than any of the others.
- Marshalle

No players union will ever accept non-guaranteed contracts after they already have them.

The NBA is the only league that really pisses me off. Their structure is terrible. In all other sports, a team doesn't have to be lucky in order to get better. Good drafting and coaching will make the team competitive.

Hell.. instead of giving money from teams that people actually care about, to teams that no one cares about... lets just give those crap teams a handicap like golf. We laugh now... but its a solid liberal idea.

That's correct. If the Flyers placed Pronger on LTIR and had 5M in cap space, it would not give them any extra space.
- PhillySportsGuy

Okay. So, does LTIR basically give them space, counting the injured player's contract?

For example, say the cap is $50M and a player is making $5M. If they LTIR him with a cap of exactly $50M, their cap allowance is now $55M with a current cap of $50M, not a current cap of $45M (cap minus the LTIR'ed player). So instead of taking away his salary from the team's cap, it basically adds his salary to the team's cap and that sum is the new allowance?

Which brings me to another question. Is the same scenario, halfway through the season, they need to LTIR a player making $2M. His LTIR allowance is $1M. Does that get added to the $55M cap allowance, or...how does that work?

Hell.. instead of giving money from teams that people actually care about, to teams that no one cares about... lets just give those crap teams a handicap like golf. We laugh now... but its a solid liberal idea.
- Flyersgod

Handicap as in what? Teams get 1/4 of a win for every $500K under a team salary of $XXX?

Not a big deal but just noticed that Harry Z was signed to a one way deal with the Pens.

That's like pulling a jedi mind trick on the league, and I like it!
- wolfhounds

These are not the players you are looking for...

Not a big deal but just noticed that Harry Z was signed to a one way deal with the Pens.
- nastyflyergirl

Yea, he will likely go on to play with Crosby and put up eleventeen points a game.

Since it's the Flyers, they'll deem it cap circumvention, and the Flyers will be hit with a $10M fine and forced to forfeit 80 consecutive first round picks, AND mandated to resign Ilya Bryzgalov to his former contract, starting back at year 1.
- jmatchett383

Wow. Nice. Then they might throw the book at us.


You do have interesting nightmares.

Okay. So, does LTIR basically give them space, counting the injured player's contract?

For example, say the cap is $50M and a player is making $5M. If they LTIR him with a cap of exactly $50M, their cap allowance is now $55M with a current cap of $50M, not a current cap of $45M (cap minus the LTIR'ed player). So instead of taking away his salary from the team's cap, it basically adds his salary to the team's cap and that sum is the new allowance?

Which brings me to another question. Is the same scenario, halfway through the season, they need to LTIR a player making $2M. His LTIR allowance is $1M. Does that get added to the $55M cap allowance, or...how does that work?
- jmatchett383

Sheesh, all this cap talk is almost as bad as being back in school. Hmm actually being back in school would be ok if you could just skip the classes and go directly to the girls and beer, I'm just sayin...

Okay. So, does LTIR basically give them space, counting the injured player's contract?

For example, say the cap is $50M and a player is making $5M. If they LTIR him with a cap of exactly $50M, their cap allowance is now $55M with a current cap of $50M, not a current cap of $45M (cap minus the LTIR'ed player). So instead of taking away his salary from the team's cap, it basically adds his salary to the team's cap and that sum is the new allowance?

Which brings me to another question. Is the same scenario, halfway through the season, they need to LTIR a player making $2M. His LTIR allowance is $1M. Does that get added to the $55M cap allowance, or...how does that work?
- jmatchett383

I'm not entirely sure. There is a benefit for entering the season and not having to use Pronger's LTIR. MJL seems to know a lot about the cap. Maybe if you say his name three times he will appear with the answer.

I hink I may have missed a reply to my question. Did AP sign? Or is he going to arb?

Wow. Nice. Then they might throw the book at us.


You do have interesting nightmares.
- FlyersGrace

You can't even begin to imagine some of the nighmares my brain concocts.
That's because you're just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It's science.

I hink I may have missed a reply to my question. Did AP sign? Or is he going to arb?
- Deasr1

Neither, I believe.

Okay. So, does LTIR basically give them space, counting the injured player's contract?

For example, say the cap is $50M and a player is making $5M. If they LTIR him with a cap of exactly $50M, their cap allowance is now $55M with a current cap of $50M, not a current cap of $45M (cap minus the LTIR'ed player). So instead of taking away his salary from the team's cap, it basically adds his salary to the team's cap and that sum is the new allowance?

Which brings me to another question. Is the same scenario, halfway through the season, they need to LTIR a player making $2M. His LTIR allowance is $1M. Does that get added to the $55M cap allowance, or...how does that work?
- jmatchett383

We talk about the cap in season terms because it's much easier to understand (and it requires less math), but teams actually have to manage the cap on a daily basis... all the values that we're used to talking about are divided by the number of days in the season and everything (like the amount of relief you get taking LTIR mid-season) is pro-rated.

We talk about the cap in season terms because it's much easier to understand, but teams actually have to manage the cap from a daily standpoint... all the values that we're used to talking about are divided by the number of days in the season and everything (like taking LTIR mid-season) is pro-rated.
- Tomahawk

That's why I'm wondering how a pro-rated LTIR portion works. As well as the other question I asked calrification on.

...MJL....
...MJL....
...EM JAY ELL!!!

Okay. So, does LTIR basically give them space, counting the injured player's contract?

For example, say the cap is $50M and a player is making $5M. If they LTIR him with a cap of exactly $50M, their cap allowance is now $55M with a current cap of $50M, not a current cap of $45M (cap minus the LTIR'ed player). So instead of taking away his salary from the team's cap, it basically adds his salary to the team's cap and that sum is the new allowance?

Which brings me to another question. Is the same scenario, halfway through the season, they need to LTIR a player making $2M. His LTIR allowance is $1M. Does that get added to the $55M cap allowance, or...how does that work?
- jmatchett383

This is a pretty clear example.
http://www.capgeek.com/fa...injured-reserve-LTIR-work

We talk about the cap in season terms because it's much easier to understand (and it requires less math), but teams actually have to manage the cap on a daily basis... all the values that we're used to talking about are divided by the number of days in the season and everything (like the amount of relief you get taking LTIR mid-season) is pro-rated.
- Tomahawk

I think this is how it works.

Say the cap is 50M and the Flyers are right up against it and Prongers cap hit is 5M. If the team LTIRs him to start the year, they will have 2.5M in cap space midway through the season. That will allow them to trade for a player making 5M annually.

If the Flyers are at 45M then at the midway point, they will have 5M to spend. This will allow them to trade for a player making 10M annually. If they use that whole 10M then they can LTIR Pronger and open up another 5M.