does a manager bat a guy 4th because he is "clutch" and "good at driving in runs"

or because the guy gets hits, hits for power and has a good slugging percentage?
- Crimsoninja

All of the above.

oh i agree. different players definitely have different roles and it's all important in the end. i just mean that it's the action which most directly changes the numbers on the scoreboard (in a positive way). i guess you could argue scoring runs, but that seems more passive from a hitting standpoint because you weren't the guy with the bat in your hand for the scoring play. definitely arguable though

that's at least why i'd compare it to goalscoring
- FlyerMike18

i just see RBIs as a combination of the other stats that mean more.
you're pretty much a lock to lead your team in RBIs if you bat 4th.
and you are put in the 4 hole because your hits, slugging and power numbers are all high. (none of which have to do with what the guy in front of you does)

could you guys all go discuss this in wilmington?

thanks
- Don'tForgetTocchet

wait, why wilmington? is this a richie18 joke? i don't get it

All of the above.
- MJL

and how do you measure "clutch" and "good at driving in runs"?

Agreed. Stats are so boring. Give me CBA legal jargin any day of the week.
- youarewrong

Well whenever there is CBA talk. Like you told the other poster, no one is forcing you to read it or participate!

What's flawed is that somehow, the guys getting on base ahead of the RBI guy are more important. If that is the gist of it. I watched some recent Phillies games. One game against the White Sox, game was tied going to the bottom of the 9th. Phillies led off with 2 hits. Had 2nd and 3rd with nobody out. Then strikeout, shallow flyout to left, not deep enough to score a sac. And a line out to right. Those hits then met nothing. Because no one knocked them in. Saw another game where Utley led off with a double. And then never moved from 2nd. It's a team. Guys need to get on base. And guys need to knock them in. There's a reason why top RBI guys make 20+ million a year. And leadoff single and double hitters don't.
- MJL

But Who's on first?

and how do you measure "clutch" and "good at driving in runs"?
- Crimsoninja

RBI's and game winning hits.

What's flawed is that somehow, the guys getting on base ahead of the RBI guy are more important. If that is the gist of it. I watched some recent Phillies games. One game against the White Sox, game was tied going to the bottom of the 9th. Phillies led off with 2 hits. Had 2nd and 3rd with nobody out. Then strikeout, shallow flyout to left, not deep enough to score a sac. And a line out to right. Those hits then met nothing. Because no one knocked them in. Saw another game where Utley led off with a double. And then never moved from 2nd. It's a team. Guys need to get on base. And guys need to knock them in. There's a reason why top RBI guys make 20+ million a year. And leadoff single and double hitters don't.
- MJL

So your going to cherry pick examples? It's like saying "I saw a hockey season once where a team had the top 2 point getters but didn't make the playoffs, getting points offensively is not a good indication of good offense and winning" (TB btw). God I realized out of any poster I (frank)ing hate you and normally no one gets me at all mad...You remind me of the lockout and stupidity.

i just see RBIs as a combination of the other stats that mean more
you're pretty much a lock to lead your team in RBIs if you bat 4th.
and you are put in the 4 hole because your hits, slugging and power numbers are all high. (none of which have to do with what the guy in front of you does)
- Crimsoninja

You sly fox, you.

So your going to cherry pick examples? It's like saying "I saw a hockey season once where a team had 2 guys in the top 3 in points but didn't make the playoffs, getting points offensively is not a good indication of good offense and winning" (TB btw). God I realized out of any poster I (frank)ing hate you and normally no one gets me at all mad...You remind me of the lockout and stupidity.
- mrhattrick27

RBI's and game winning hits.
- MJL

can you respond to my other post above?

So your going to cherry pick examples? It's like saying "I saw a hockey season once where a team had 2 guys in the top 3 in points but didn't make the playoffs, getting points offensively is not a good indication of good offense and winning" (TB btw). God I realized out of any poster I (frank)ing hate you and normally no one gets me at all mad...You remind me of the lockout and stupidity.
- mrhattrick27

jesus...

But Who's on first?
- youarewrong

i just see RBIs as a combination of the other stats that mean more
you're pretty much a lock to lead your team in RBIs if you bat 4th.
and you are put in the 4 hole because your hits, slugging and power numbers are all high. (none of which have to do with what the guy in front of you does)
- Crimsoninja

If you're placed in the 4th hole, and you don't produce. You won't be there long. Some players are a lot better then others. One of the biggest issues right now is that Ryan Howard is not the run producer he once was. Even if he wasn't hurt and played pretty much the entire Season. Do you think he'd have more RBI's then Dom Brown? Just because he's in the 4 spot?

i just see RBIs as a combination of the other stats that mean more
you're pretty much a lock to lead your team in RBIs if you bat 4th.
and you are put in the 4 hole because your hits, slugging and power numbers are all high. (none of which have to do with what the guy in front of you does)
- Crimsoninja

it's definitely closely related to the role you play. that much is certain

jesus...
- stayinthefnnet

I'm generally not angry I swear

If you're placed in the 4th hole, and you don't produce. You won't be there long. Some players are a lot better then others. One of the biggest issues right now is that Ryan Howard is not the run producer he once was. Even if he wasn't hurt and played pretty much the entire Season. Do you think he'd have more RBI's then Dom Brown? Just because he's in the 4 spot?
- MJL

and he is not producing or driving in runs because his hits, slugging and power numbers are all down

not because he isnt being "clutch"

wait, why wilmington? is this a richie18 joke? i don't get it
- FlyerMike18

just referencing the delaware town buzz from earlier

quite honestly i wish richie18 were here to give his input on the matter

So your going to cherry pick examples? It's like saying "I saw a hockey season once where a team had the top 2 point getters but didn't make the playoffs, getting points offensively is not a good indication of good offense and winning" (TB btw). God I realized out of any poster I (frank)ing hate you and normally no one gets me at all mad...You remind me of the lockout and stupidity.
- mrhattrick27

It's not cherry picking. It's a clear example of how it is a team. The examples are simply to illustrate a point. Guys need to get on base. Guys need to knock runners in. Feel free to dispute anything I post. And I'll be glad to discuss it with you. But frankly, this is the type of response that indicates that you really can't.

So your going to cherry pick examples? It's like saying "I saw a hockey season once where a team had the top 2 point getters but didn't make the playoffs, getting points offensively is not a good indication of good offense and winning" (TB btw). God I realized out of any poster I (frank)ing hate you and normally no one gets me at all mad...You remind me of the lockout and stupidity.
- mrhattrick27

hmmm yes interesting.

You sly fox, you.
- feelingkettle

hi

and he is not producing or driving in runs because his hits, slugging and power numbers are all down

not because he isnt being "clutch"
- Crimsoninja

So you don't think getting a hit when runners are on base, is being clutch? Having a higher batting average with RISP isn't being clutch?

just referencing the delaware town buzz from earlier

quite honestly i wish richie18 were here to give his input on the matter
- Don'tForgetTocchet

ahh i missed all of that

can you respond to my other post above?
- Crimsoninja

I responded already.

ahh i missed all of that
- FlyerMike18

well the weekend is coming up so maybe you'll have some time to backread