Players from drafts before McDonough got Wirtrz to implement a lot more extensive scouting that played for the Hawks:

2002 Keith, Burish
2003 Seabrook, Crawford, Big Buf
2004 Barker, Bolland, Bickel, Jake Dowell, Troy Brouwer

That's 10 from three drafts

2005-2009, five drafts: only 7 played for the Hawks

Facts can be very disconcerting.
- KingB

>Not taking sides on this, at all
>Some NHL draft fun facts
>About 1 in 5 NHL draft picks become "career" NHL players (playing 200+ NHL games)
>1st round picks have a 63% chance of being a "career" NHLer
>But drafts vary widely because of talent -- the '93 draft had 22 of 26 first rounders become "career" NHLers
>After round 1, only 12% of NHL draft picks become "career" NHLers
>In a strict salary cap world, spending BIG on scouting and player evaluation is one of the dwindling ways left to use money to beat your NHL competition for player talent -- coaching, too

@NHLBlackhawks: The #Blackhawks have agreed to terms with forward Brad Winchester on a one-year deal.

@NHLBlackhawks: The #Blackhawks have agreed to terms with forward Brad Winchester on a one-year deal.
- TimBits

AHL signing. Winchester spent last season in Milwaukee.

Brutal... give CC a break. He did keep us in it. Everyone has bad games. Lets not forget that he out dueled several damn good net minders in Howard, Quick and the great Rask.
- z1990z

But that's just not accurate. Sure, give him his due. But that statement is just not true.

AHL signing. Winchester spent last season in Milwaukee.
- DarthKane

Disagree. 4th line player they had targeted last summer. Tough kid.

@NHLBlackhawks: The #Blackhawks have agreed to terms with forward Brad Winchester on a one-year deal.
- TimBits

Interesting. I'm curious if it is a one-way or two-way deal?

Disagree. 4th line player they had targeted last summer. Tough kid.
- John Jaeckel

Indeed. He pushed around the Icehogs on a regular basis last season in Milwaukee.

Winchester is a big dude! I'd forgotten about him...played with the hated Blues.

32 yo 6'5" 230 lb. C/LW 35th overall pick in 2000 draft.

And he's another USA born player from Madison, WI

I think that Raanta had a positive relationship with the Hawk scout, new the team just set a record win streak, had a good club, and they offered him a chance to attempt to be an NHL goalie in a bit.
I think goalies understand it's better to play with a strong backline and scoring, so Raanta knows that if thing go well, he gets to play starting as a back-up.
I cannot remember a Euro goalie stepping in quickly and stealing the starting goalie job after a minor AHL stint.
When you sign anybody, you ARE trying to get a major leaguer out of the deal...
I don't think Bowman signed Raanta as a Crawford replacement by the end on this enxt season...could it be a a baragining chip to have Crawford take less money?
Could the Hawks say "Well, Corey test the market and get back to us..."
Sure IF Crawford found a big buck deal to play for the Islanders (they are not spenders either) could Raanta be ready to pull emergency duty and ATTEMPT to be a NHL starter?
Possible...but he better be super ready.
Maybe...it just sets Crawford up for a possibpe trade later.

1) I just find the UFA signing of Raanta not directly related to anything but improving depth at the goal position.

Of course if Raanta is the real, that changes the situation, but I don't htink the went to Finland and thought we gotta get this guy because CC sucks, 2) or we don't want to pay him a lot, or we are letting CC walk as a UFA....
- wiz1901

Had me up to 1. because 2 is very definitely an issue.

It's not that he sucks or thathtey don't "want" to pay him a lot. But all you guys throwing $5 million a year at Crawford don't have to make the dollars work in 2014 and especially 2015.

He doesn't suck. He's also not the best goalie in the world or close to it. Raanta might not be the answer. But if Crawford and his agent want big $ out of the Hawks next summer, and Raanta has the kind of year at Rockford his credentials say he should, has a couple of solid outings or two in Chicago, then he will be at least one replacement option the Hawks will consider.

That is ENTIRELY why they went in there and signed him.

Let's see how much Clendening improves before penciling him in for '14-'15. Also, I tend to agree about Olsen at this point, however, I still think there is room for improvement there and he may get there yet.

Also, Dahlbeck could be in the running for a roster spot next fall. He's a kid to watch. He's a mobile defensive defensemen who will block shots.
- EKolb13

Obviously, you haven't view the present clendening...he shall be in the AHL lot longer than replacing someone. You might as well say Leddy looks like Keith as a defender if you think Clendnening is a replacement....Olsen is working on his feet...

Those two signineesa re what you are getting if they trade a defender, not guys that are not close to ready.....

Had me up to 1. because 2 is very definitely an issue.

It's not that he sucks or thathtey don't "want" to pay him a lot. But all you guys throwing $5 million a year at Crawford don't have to make the dollars work in 2014 and especially 2015.

He doesn't suck. He's also not the best goalie in the world or close to it. Raanta might not be the answer. But if Crawford and his agent want big $ out of the Hawks next summer, and Raanta has the kind of year at Rockford his credentials say he should, has a couple of solid outings or two in Chicago, then he will be at least one replacement option the Hawks will consider.

That is ENTIRELY why they went in there and signed him.
- John Jaeckel

JJ...my thoughts exactly. I don't think Raanta signs with the Hawks if the plan was for him to play in Rock Vegas for 3 years.

I agree with all of this. Most would do the Keith for Weber deal, though. But not me.
- tomcat24

No one is ever going to convince me different:

Shea Weber is 150 mile shot, but he is clearly not a really solid defenseman in my humble opinion..

He uses his size, but he has never shown me anything EXCEPT point totals and his size to promote his imaginary rise to Norris Trophy elite status.
He does seem to see things well, makes poor decisions in his own end....and now he doesn't have the luxxury of a top pairing partner like Suter....

Disagree. 4th line player they had targeted last summer. Tough kid.
- John Jaeckel

He played in the AHL last season, I just thought that if Hawks wanted him last season they would have got him. He tried out with the Flames last season and was released too. So all of this doesn't seem like he'd be a prime candidate for the Blackhawks.

I could be wrong and Winchester has been a decent 4th liner in the past. He could serve a role here. I remember SJ used Winchester in the shootout a couple times and it drive my buddy who's a Shark's fan crazy.

Seabrook got benched in the Vancouver Olympics on an NHL ice surface. Guys are going to walk around him on an international surface like he's standing still. I agree, he doesn't belong in Sochi, and I think Babcock (who benched him in Vancouver) realizes that. Still take him on my team, just not the olympics.
- 6628

I have quietly seem all the talk about teams and defenses, and I like the swedish team form top to bottom.

The top nine defenders a excellent up ice, they have every type at forward, and that guy in net....

Obviously, you haven't view the present clendening...he shall be in the AHL lot longer than replacing someone. You might as well say Leddy looks like Keith as a defender if you think Clendnening is a replacement....Olsen is working on his feet...

Those two signineesa re what you are getting if they trade a defender, not guys that are not close to ready.....
- wiz1901

Wiz,

Where did I say Clendening WAS ready to be a replacement? Go back and read the post.

Had me up to 1. because 2 is very definitely an issue.

It's not that he sucks or thathtey don't "want" to pay him a lot. But all you guys throwing $5 million a year at Crawford don't have to make the dollars work in 2014 and especially 2015.

He doesn't suck. He's also not the best goalie in the world or close to it. Raanta might not be the answer. But if Crawford and his agent want big $ out of the Hawks next summer, and Raanta has the kind of year at Rockford his credentials say he should, has a couple of solid outings or two in Chicago, then he will be at least one replacement option the Hawks will consider.

That is ENTIRELY why they went in there and signed him.
- John Jaeckel

Seems like you guys are saying pretty similar things. Every signing is to improve depth in the system, and includes the hope this new guy could replace someone on the NHL roster. Whether Raanta is that guy next year time will tell (but I am hopeful because the FO is doing pretty well lately).

No one is ever going to convince me different:

Shea Weber is 150 mile shot, but he is clearly not a really solid defenseman in my humble opinion..

He uses his size, but he has never shown me anything EXCEPT point totals and his size to promote his imaginary rise to Norris Trophy elite status.
He does seem to see things well, makes poor decisions in his own end....and now he doesn't have the luxxury of a top pairing partner like Suter....
- wiz1901

Wiz, everyone's allowed to have opinions, and you have a lot of good ones, but calling Shea Weber not really a solid defensemen is just ludicrous and innaccurate. After the first 10 or so games he was back to his dominating self. The guy is a monster behind his own dots, rarely loses a one on one battle, punishes guys, scores a lot, is a captain. I'd like to know who is solid if Weber isn't

Toews and Kane were great picks and fell into our lap. Overall, Tallon was terrible at drafting (they did waaaay better before he arrived), made some great trades, signed some great free agents, and overpaid players throughout his tenure.

Bowman did a great job at trading away players but keeping a quality core (look at the trades Philly has made after their cup run, I like our trades much better) and getting us out of salary cap hell. His drafts have produced prospects in later rounds that we would not have expected but it is still to soon to grade his drafts (in two years we can start to grade the 1st draft).

Overall I think Tallon would be a better GM if there wasn't a salary cap, but Bowman is much better at managing the cap and I view him as a better GM with cap constraints.
- BearsnHawks

What was Stan Bowman's job when he worked under Tallon? Toews didn't fall into anyone's lap. Tallon pushed for him when there were lots of NHL scouts who never thought he'd be able to score enough to be a true #1 center in the NHL, that's why Jordan Staal got taken over him. There's nowhere for all these great Bowman draft picks to play, because they aren't going to be good enough take the spots of current guys.

@NHLBlackhawks: The #Blackhawks have agreed to terms with forward Brad Winchester on a one-year deal.
- TimBits

2 way deal similar to Kostka?

When did Stanbo get a chance to pick #1 or #3 overall?

Compare where Dale picked to where Stan has picked.
- KingB

Why would I compare that? The players Tallon drafted so far have been more impressive than the players Bowman has drafted. Qualify it however you want, its a fact. I'd be really surprised if anyone Stan has drafted turns out better than Nik Hjalmarsson

Why would I compare that? The players Tallon drafted so far have been more impressive than the players Bowman has drafted. Qualify it however you want, its a fact. I'd be really surprised if anyone Stan has drafted turns out better than Nik Hjalmarsson
- rollpards19

Teravainen and Danault could be.

Why would I compare that? The players Tallon drafted so far have been more impressive than the players Bowman has drafted. Qualify it however you want, its a fact. I'd be really surprised if anyone Stan has drafted turns out better than Nik Hjalmarsson
- rollpards19

So that you would be making an accurate analysis of who is better at drafting? Give one GM the several top picks and the other none, and odds are the first will do better. Looking at equal picks gives a more accurate picture - unless you're just trying to win an argument...

Expect Rozival skates well enough to play here in the second year of his contract? Expect that Olsen's skating and decision making improves? .
- jhawk59

Guys like Olsen who get two year deals where they BETTER look like theyc an play or they are out...they have all the college defenders coming BYE BYE Dylan is your head & feet don't get more elite....

Meanwhile, the timetable for a Clendenning and McNeill is an even greater unknown. Clendenning may need a third AHL season and McNeill does appear to be talented but enigmatic.
- jhawk59

A THIRD SEASON? He needs a whole lot more than that!
Is McNeill who has yet to play an entire pro season except for games after his long junior season and playoff ended enigmatic?
What's puzzling about a kid you is a leader on his junior played for Team Canada as the hitter, and can play both wings and take some face-offs?
He hasn't scored in the miniscule time in Rockford and THAT makes him enigmatic?
He is load once moving and I know i wouldn't want to be checked by him...there is no puzzle to meat & potatoes...
Enigmatic because he couldn't achive his boast of making the parent club after being drafted? That would make almost the enitre draft classes enigmatic....

These Rockford call ups the past couple years are going to determine their fate by showing whether they are willing and capable to become better rounded players. They are not likely ever top six players in Chicago and none of them skate well enough to become entrenched on a third or fourth line.
- jhawk59

Wow ! You have them scouted, labeled and unable to play up OR down in the Hawks line up... because they all are "bad skaters."

Smith probably has the better game so he would be the top choice to stick around for a while.
- jhawk59

I will take this as your prediction as the bestest Rockford and he will make it...

you keep an eye on the development of a Broadhurst, the skinny light Nordstrom.
- jhawk59

So now we are jumping down a longer extended road with Broadhurst...and I see Nordstrom as a possible candidate in the present bunch as his arrival to Rockford dpesn't dictate when he gets a shot...but as you said he has to do heavy lifting as he did when on the Swedish Junior elite club...a smart player who thinks dee first...

You know that Danault and Tervainen will play NHL when their time comes.
- jhawk59

Ok, yes from my views against international competition and junior, I think Danault plays in the bigs because he's a hockey play through and through.

Teräväinen - I REFUSE to make any judgements, projections, and predictions that he is any sort of NHL er until I see him play on the North American ice...

I like what wiz said about the Pirri/Hayes/Morin/Smith group....that the one who is best or quickest at getting back into the flow, into center ice in backchecking
- jhawk59[therefore gets Q's attention] is more likely to receive playing time.

wait ... you said they have skating issues, so they CANNOT DO what I said....

As i was saying....you cannot skate well enough and your talent is not top six, then you will not stay here.
- jhawk59

So...the Hawks and NHL teams cannot and will not ever advance players that they drafted unless they are top six worthy....I thought this league was built on guys working up from the lower lines TO be key componenets to winning...they don't start there, they are not judge by that just how the fit mess succeed at doing their job out there.

I know that Bickel hung around, but he was in a different situation.
- jhawk59

On the contrary, Bickell is what homegrown development in the Cap era is....

You HAVE to lose plays to have Cap space, you advance a guy who you see is a hard worker team guy with some skills,BOTH sides are held accountable-The hawks say you stay in the bigs because you agreed to a low end money deal and they get space and you get a chance...if Bickell fails to impress he leaves ala Stalberg...if he stays, he reaps the financial reward and the team reaps the return in developemnt with a rising player.

He (Bickell)was always cheap insurance and his game/talent just enough of a tease to keep him around. Turned out after the first Cup that a spot was there for him. There is not going to be a spot in two years for the Hayes and Morin and maybe Smith as well. And seriously, the skating could not improve enough for those guys (believe it).
- jhawk59

All I can point back to is how here two years ago, Bickell with the rottenest $ deal around was still the guy on this board that everyone thought they wanted to leave and not let develop...

The one thing I keep thinking could possible hold up a final decision on those guys, however, is in regard to Morin. He has that shot and is willing to play chippy. I see how he could win a game being spotted on a fourth or even a top line. He could sit or even if plying his performance could even lend itself to a description of being invisible...until say Kane sets him up for the game winner.

- jhawk59

Again all aspects are what will determine which Icedogs stay, and we can all THINK we know which do, but I know I don't have any inkling as to what the Hawks brass will see in early camp from any, but they better bring it early and often.

Hayes just falls down and is not going to improve on that turning radius or getting to his check too late.
- jhawk59

I find is very humorous after the hawk prsopects camp a couple of years ago how so many wanted HAYES here then, because of the size aspect....form the time they acquired him I talked about his foot speed in junior...and you know what? He ahs showed me great hands, and MORE physicality that I imagined,,,you just need to watch how they start looking for him. I think he is Bickell ish...and you guys are letting the past references by me for years and poisoning your viewings. I am not a big fan, but I see he has more jump and is pretty dedicated to improvement so I hope when and if he gets a chance you think about all your past Bickell negativity and be patient.

Pirri has to become better at face offs and physically be stronger. Perhaps he may want it bad enough, but until I see that....his skill level like others say on the board is to be a top six or not at all.

- jhawk59

Well, I guess you made you judgemnet on his NHL career, based on seven NHL games and I know it is the AHL, but you think a weak guy could win the scoring championship????

Stanton is just a 7th dman. Can he be a # 6? I will take the word of bloggers like EKolb. No, he is a depth #7 until we hear otherwise. Beach actually may get a look but he won't play here any significant # of games. And it is only his board work and warrior mentality that gets him consideration. Teams need physical players.
- jhawk59

Again CAN anyone make a judgement on Stanton based on ONE game and plus two rating?
To me, this is reckless as how everyone kep saying Olsen was going to be the seabrook type replacement....they have to play.

Beach has game and skating improvement. Bowman has gambled, he sees something, so I guess he may get a look. More as a motivational tool than anything else as far as Beach's mindset needs to be challenged. He does have ability but it is his toughness and physical attributes that get him a look.
- jhawk59

Again, he was never who i would have taken if I was Dale, but until I see him in the NHL, getting an honest shot after EARNING IT in training camp, I cannot make these general sweeps of opinion you have shared.

Why would I compare that? The players Tallon drafted so far have been more impressive than the players Bowman has drafted. Qualify it however you want, its a fact. I'd be really surprised if anyone Stan has drafted turns out better than Nik Hjalmarsson
- rollpards19

I don't know the answer to this, so it is a legit question. Were you one of the group at the TDL that thought the Hawks couldn't win as then constituted?

Why would I compare that? The players Tallon drafted so far have been more impressive than the players Bowman has drafted. Qualify it however you want, its a fact. I'd be really surprised if anyone Stan has drafted turns out better than Nik Hjalmarsson
- rollpards19

I shouldn't waste my time with such foolishness.

If you can't figure out or admit that Stan's picks are just starting to enter their formative years, I'm not wasting my time with you.