The always go veteran team, and the kid has nEVER PLAYED against pros, so we have to wait and see if he develops into a pro...

See post to Jhawk59 on TT...
- wiz1901

Depends how do you define pro? He has played two years now in Sm-Liiga against men and every player in that league are professional hockey players. But he hasn´t played any games with Finnish national team..so no big news that he didn´t get selected this time.

Wiz,

Your response to my guess how Blackhawk prospects may pan out over the next couple years is highly respected.

But we do have to remember there are only so many roster spots in Chg. There is also a preference for a skating team, based on historionics. So when many of the Rockford prospects don't skate well, it is quite challenging that they will be able to stick around and improve enough to win a job...stick around as in periphery like Bickel did for many seasons.

It is quite likely that the forward prospects will in their final report on their Chg days....competed against each other for one or two spots. And then too, the next wave of better prospects would be a good bet to dislodge them from any playing time. Skating or should I say speed is the way teams prefer to go, right, so these slower Rockford kids (Hayes, Pirri,Smith, Morin) better be really good in their skill strength and not too much a burden with any other part of their game. Only makes sense, right!

As for Pirri, I would hope eventually Bowman will shore up the #2 center spot with someone who wins face offs at a better clip. It is not erroneous to say that this kid has a challenge ahead of him....and he needs better strength......as has been noted by a few on this board. Until he shows more, have to say he is not a long term answer. If he shows enough improvement in the weak aspects of his game, who knows if he can play for Chg or another NHL team.

Winning the AHL scoring title is an accomplishment but is merely a sign that he has talent which could translate into NHL employment given other parts of his game are not going to hold him back.

I am glad you expound on my comments. You are certainly in authority, if not the authority based upon years of studying tape and watching games. Your draft analysis is outstanding. In fact, it is the best! Ok.

I will not make this into a novel by responding to everything you said. Anyone who has read this far certainly can recall a couple pages back about the prospects. Usage of quote button makes this too too long a read. But the quote button ordinarily is the correct approach.

Nice to know that while their city is in bankruptcy, and essential services will almost certainly be fut, the civic minded team owners and sucker taxpayers play business as usual.

From today's Tribune:

Just days after becoming the first major U.S. city to file for bankruptcy, Detroit’s Downtown Development Authority was given approval by the Michigan Strategic Fund to use more than $225 in taxpayer money to be part of the construction price of a new $450 million downtown arena for the Red Wings. The arena will have nearly 60 percent of the price funded by taxpayers, according to the Detroit Free Press.

Nice to know that while their city is in bankruptcy, and essential services will almost certainly be fut, the civic minded team owners and sucker taxpayers play business as usual.

From today's Tribune:

Just days after becoming the first major U.S. city to file for bankruptcy, Detroit’s Downtown Development Authority was given approval by the Michigan Strategic Fund to use more than $225 in taxpayer money to be part of the construction price of a new $450 million downtown arena for the Red Wings. The arena will have nearly 60 percent of the price funded by taxpayers, according to the Detroit Free Press.
- StLBravesFan

All cities in the world COMPETE for business. This is a cost of doing business in the modern era. If you do not have first class facilities, you have zero chance of drawing in outside business. That is generating traffic to your city, which has the indirect benefit to the city/region at large.

Cities, like Detroit have long been on the decline for a variety of reasons. One of the main reasons is a philosophy of isolationism and fiefdom. This step, a small one, actually reflects a positive investment in the City of Detroit. Thus legitimizing it and displaying an understanding of building and creating value and opportunity.

and if the IDIOT TALLON had seen Staal's name there he would have passed on Toews, TRUTH!!!

when you pick low ,1 2, 3, the chances of impact guys panning out are VERY GOOD....
- wiz1901

I still thank my lucky stars every day that St. Louis picked Erik Johnson.

Nice to know that while their city is in bankruptcy, and essential services will almost certainly be fut, the civic minded team owners and sucker taxpayers play business as usual.

From today's Tribune:

Just days after becoming the first major U.S. city to file for bankruptcy, Detroit’s Downtown Development Authority was given approval by the Michigan Strategic Fund to use more than $225 in taxpayer money to be part of the construction price of a new $450 million downtown arena for the Red Wings. The arena will have nearly 60 percent of the price funded by taxpayers, according to the Detroit Free Press.
- StLBravesFan

totally agree & we have a screwball here that would rather build a new roundball palace for depaul rather than trying to utilze some of Mc cormick place for such or get a casino to create $$$$ in order to help out the public school system & other city services vital to the people.
the people that own the wings are rich enough to front the loot for a new arena much like what tom ricketts is doing with the wrigley renovations.
the 1st priorty should be to get those great people of detroit back to work with revitalization of the auto industry!
Well, what ever happens, best of luck to the wings fans, the city & the wings organization, I'll miss the rivalry & no matter what jeremy piven says, Detroit DOESN'T suck!!

All cities in the world COMPETE for business. This is a cost of doing business in the modern era. If you do not have first class facilities, you have zero chance of drawing in outside business. That is generating traffic to your city, which has the indirect benefit to the city/region at large.

Cities, like Detroit have long been on the decline for a variety of reasons. One of the main reasons is a philosophy of isolationism and fiefdom. This step, a small one, actually reflects a positive investment in the City of Detroit. Thus legitimizing it and displaying an understanding of building and creating value and opportunity.
- TrueGrit

Excuse my abruptness, but bullish!t.

How about investing in the education of your children, so that potential investors have an educated workforce.

How about investing in your police, fire, an other public safety forces, so that potential investors can find stable locations to invest in.

How about investing in upgrading your streets and bridges, water mains, electric and other energy distribution systems so that potential investors can efficiently move goods and services in and out.

Instead of in play pens for rich owners who could afford to buy their own facilities. Other than being used 50 nights per year by the Red Wings, and maybe a concert or two, what other private nvestments will follow this - without the other investments I noted above, you still have a decimated war zone to overcome.

There's no doubt that a GM is gonna get judged heavily on what is done with real high picks. That's why Barker at #3 (IIRC) was a big deal.
- mohel

The thing about this was Barker WAS this excellent offensive dee-man, and it as a classic reach to position in a not very strong draft year.

Barker's PP ability was on view in the World's and if you look at the defenseman who WERE more successful in that draftt class, you will see most have already gone from fame to average to fail (Rick Green, Edler, Streit) and by the middle (Nik Grossman) and end the first Jeff Schult is the best guys the class offers.

The really expected Barker's gane as a defenseman to come together but he didn't have great recognition skills to read and get in position...but thta deer in the headlights look he had out there was classic.

Check out my Redraft of the 2004 Ovi, Malkin, Barker draft on DraftSite
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/redraft/2004/

Brad Winchester

I still thank my lucky stars every day that St. Louis picked Erik Johnson.
- FredoXV

and at the time, EVERY SINGLE team probably would have taken him...but you notice the lesson was learned and the big Defender Seth Jones dropped mostly because the position is a huge step up at the NHL level...just the fact that Oduya and Roszval are acquired and Bick Leddy a super talented youngster sits tells you the learning process and they way you handlre these young dee-men is pretty important...for their mindsets.

Interesting note, TT was not picked for the Finland team
- Maggie

I wouldn't read much of anything into that. Too many guys who are ready and proven against the kind of competition other countries will roll.

JJ, another under the radar find by the Bowmans. they are good for shopping at the dime store, especially scotty! danny cleary comes to mind & a few others.
a plus this kid also could play center & take draws. hope he works out!
- wonthecup10

They had him targeted last summer.

Players from drafts before McDonough got Wirtrz to implement a lot more extensive scouting that played for the Hawks:

2002 Keith, Burish
2003 Seabrook, Crawford, Big Buf
2004 Barker, Bolland, Bickel, Jake Dowell, Troy Brouwer

That's 10 from three drafts

2005-2009, five drafts: only 7 played for the Hawks

Facts can be very disconcerting.
- KingB

To be honest, just playing devils advocate, that first chunk of draft years you listed were nothing short of stacked with prime NHL talent, the 06-09, not so much. Sure any year will have some studs, but this past draft was one of the only few in recent memory that had some nasty depth in them. There have been several drafts over the past few years that have been baby shxt soft after the first round. Everyone had that problem. I mean look at the tavares, seguin/hall draft, the nugent hopkins draft. Nobody is exactly making out like bandits with many of those draft picks except for a handful in each first round. The 2003 first round is a complete all star team

Kanes draft year was complete garbage too

Excuse my abruptness, but bullish!t.

How about investing in the education of your children, so that potential investors have an educated workforce.

How about investing in your police, fire, an other public safety forces, so that potential investors can find stable locations to invest in.

How about investing in upgrading your streets and bridges, water mains, electric and other energy distribution systems so that potential investors can efficiently move goods and services in and out.

Instead of in play pens for rich owners who could afford to buy their own facilities. Other than being used 50 nights per year by the Red Wings, and maybe a concert or two, what other private nvestments will follow this - without the other investments I noted above, you still have a decimated war zone to overcome.
- StLBravesFan

For proof, look no further than Comerica Park and Ford Field and the rest of Detroit left to rot.

JJ - Any word on a potential trade of Brookbank especially after the signings of Kostka and Peckham.

I was looking at the remaining free agents. Lot of quality talent. Wondering if they can trade Brookbank and get one on the cheap. Hearing anything?

The thing about this was Barker WAS this excellent offensive dee-man, and it as a classic reach to position in a not very strong draft year.

Barker's PP ability was on view in the World's and if you look at the defenseman who WERE more successful in that draftt class, you will see most have already gone from fame to average to fail (Rick Green, Edler, Streit) and by the middle (Nik Grossman) and end the first Jeff Schult is the best guys the class offers.

The really expected Barker's gane as a defenseman to come together but he didn't have great recognition skills to read and get in position...but thta deer in the headlights look he had out there was classic.

Check out my Redraft of the 2004 Ovi, Malkin, Barker draft on DraftSite
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/redraft/2004/
- wiz1901

At that time, I wanted the Hawks to take Ladd.

JJ - Any word on a potential trade of Brookbank especially after the signings of Kostka and Peckham.

I was looking at the remaining free agents. Lot of quality talent. Wondering if they can trade Brookbank and get one on the cheap. Hearing anything?
- golfbard

Have not heard anything in a while.

The thing about this was Barker WAS this excellent offensive dee-man, and it as a classic reach to position in a not very strong draft year.

Barker's PP ability was on view in the World's and if you look at the defenseman who WERE more successful in that draftt class, you will see most have already gone from fame to average to fail (Rick Green, Edler, Streit) and by the middle (Nik Grossman) and end the first Jeff Schult is the best guys the class offers.

The really expected Barker's gane as a defenseman to come together but he didn't have great recognition skills to read and get in position...but thta deer in the headlights look he had out there was classic.

Check out my Redraft of the 2004 Ovi, Malkin, Barker draft on DraftSite
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/redraft/2004/
- wiz1901

Wiz, you're the best. Love your website and hockey draft info. So while essentially whiffing on Barker at #3 overall, you still feel the Hawks ended up drafting 3 of the top 20 players in that draft! Brouwer, Bickell, Bolland. Helluva draft, frankly

The thing about this was Barker WAS this excellent offensive dee-man, and it as a classic reach to position in a not very strong draft year.

Barker's PP ability was on view in the World's and if you look at the defenseman who WERE more successful in that draftt class, you will see most have already gone from fame to average to fail (Rick Green, Edler, Streit) and by the middle (Nik Grossman) and end the first Jeff Schult is the best guys the class offers.

The really expected Barker's gane as a defenseman to come together but he didn't have great recognition skills to read and get in position...but thta deer in the headlights look he had out there was classic.

Check out my Redraft of the 2004 Ovi, Malkin, Barker draft on DraftSite
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/redraft/2004/
- wiz1901

I had to peruse a couple more things...and found:

U show Pirri and Morin as redraft 1st rounders in 2009, but not Marcus Krueger? Is that an indication that you feel their long term upside is that high today? higher than Krueger current plus upside? Wow!

Excuse my abruptness, but bullish!t.

How about investing in the education of your children, so that potential investors have an educated workforce.

How about investing in your police, fire, an other public safety forces, so that potential investors can find stable locations to invest in.

How about investing in upgrading your streets and bridges, water mains, electric and other energy distribution systems so that potential investors can efficiently move goods and services in and out.

Instead of in play pens for rich owners who could afford to buy their own facilities. Other than being used 50 nights per year by the Red Wings, and maybe a concert or two, what other private nvestments will follow this - without the other investments I noted above, you still have a decimated war zone to overcome.
- StLBravesFan

First, I am not in total disagreement with you, however, lets cut down a few of the platitudes. No country spends more on education for NOTHING. Education and the oft forgotten Opportunity, go hand in hand. Without the opportunity to use and education for more than some blowhard advocacy cause, the carrot does not exist.

Second, it is only a recent phenoma that the government should actually INVEST in anything. Yes they have done so in certain respects of national security etc.. But the whole idea that they should steer the economy is something that is a modern assumption. Police and public service are funded from tax dollars. That is sales tax, property tax, and state local income tax. Those taxes increase and decrease with activity and growth. In reality, government should be allowed to grow/shrink/expand with the local economy. With that said, the next logical thought would be, how do we promote/sustain economic activity? The government SHOULD be in the business of figuring out how to most effectively provide an environment where business and economic activity can thrive.

Third, infrastructure is huge no doubt. Totally agree. What many do not realize and just assume, is that there are no funds for it, or that people do not want it. In reality, from New Orleans on to all major cities. Billions of dollars are earmarked every year for improvements, but end up pilfered off in side deals and overpriced contracts. This issue goes to the efficacy of the government as a functioning entity, not a lack of funds. That is not a political critique, just an assessment of reality.

Fourth, the assumption that owners can self finance these places is nuts. Local governments want pieces of these places to use them for civic activities. People who work there from ushers, to concessionairs to security do not work for the teams, they work, often for the city. These buildings are huge assets to their communities and are net positive economically. Tip your hats to Wings and city for taking steps to keep the Wings in the city proper.

Lastly, economics and public finance rely on the velocity of money to grow. Spending funds, as you indicated, and I do not think your ideas are bad, without the prospect of any new net positive cash flow impacts is just wasted money.

The economic impact of bringing people downtown in Detroit, the money they spend, the businesses that will be spawned to service those people will produce sales tax and other tax revenue that can be used for the causes you mention above.

People go nuts when a company gets tax breaks to bring in a business to a location. Reactionaries will curse rich/corporate side. Do those people ask the value a business brings when it employs 50 to 100 people? Utilizes idol land? What will the effects of the business bring to the surrounding community, in traffic and commerce? Those are huge net positives.

I know its a bit off of hockey, but I enjoy the healthy debate on this issue as well.

The thing about this was Barker WAS this excellent offensive dee-man, and it as a classic reach to position in a not very strong draft year.

- wiz1901

Wasn´t Barker still consensus number 3 after those two Russians just about in every draft preview back then?

The thing about this was Barker WAS this excellent offensive dee-man, and it as a classic reach to position in a not very strong draft year.

Barker's PP ability was on view in the World's and if you look at the defenseman who WERE more successful in that draftt class, you will see most have already gone from fame to average to fail (Rick Green, Edler, Streit) and by the middle (Nik Grossman) and end the first Jeff Schult is the best guys the class offers.

The really expected Barker's gane as a defenseman to come together but he didn't have great recognition skills to read and get in position...but thta deer in the headlights look he had out there was classic.

Check out my Redraft of the 2004 Ovi, Malkin, Barker draft on DraftSite
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/redraft/2004/
- wiz1901

And I can't wait to see your redrafts of 2010 and especially 2011 as to how the Hawks fare.

Depends how do you define pro? He has played two years now in Sm-Liiga against men and every player in that league are professional hockey players. But he hasn´t played any games with Finnish national team..so no big news that he didn´t get selected this time.
- MjulQvist

NEVER PLAYED in the smaller ice surface against NHL MEN....

picky picky picky, my brother.

I am NOT given him props until I see something on the NHL ice surface....many here LOVE to ooze man love all over "selections" and evaluations (That I Do) that are based on production against players and league that are clearly places for development.

Barkov is not only a load but was a top scorer in Sm-Liiga and had no trouble "getting dirty there."

I don't know if you live in Finland, but if you do see Teräväinen with regularity, you know where he ended up in the scoring and you know he is not Barkov ready for the dirty areas THERE, much less HERE, where the PROS are elite PROS.


I just get tired of all of us fans deciding because player was taken in the middle first round we can start pigeon-holing his eventual placement on a NHL roster , and EVEN WHO he is "going to replace."

Call me jaded, but I have seen enough Cam Barker's, Mikhail Yakubov's, Pavel Vorobiev's, Karl Dykhuis's, Ty Jones' and Sergei Krivokrasov's to crap my pants...
and we all saw the the advance billing scouting reports and achievements that may have warranted their selections...They were good at the levels BELOW the speed, skill and decision making that NHLers have to have....
and as fanboys who love our teams, we all want to believe project that all do more than fill small roles...

I think each pro team in the finnish elite should be put in the NHL, because then you could see just how elite the nhl is...

If most Finnish world junior clubs are loaded with under six footers, and many of the true Finnish elite pros are over here, I have ot believe that Teräväinen's success there doesn't yet equate to success against pro back checking, Suter defending against him, and meeting the likes of the Blues when they woke up on the wrong side of the bed as the same kind of "pro league."

Nhl network is showing a bunch of U.S. Games from this year's World Juniors so you can see Hartman

I had to peruse a couple more things...and found:

U show Pirri and Morin as redraft 1st rounders in 2009, but not Marcus Krueger? Is that an indication that you feel their long term upside is that high today? higher than Krueger current plus upside? Wow!
- Cmonalready

Wow I am in error ...going to change that right NOW
ouch!

(Here is what hoppend: I was in the middle of doing this and didn't finalize it...and I didn't have Kruger moved close to the early round....just missed him when i was scanning through visually....)

and that list was never completed....as i pulled it up I was surprised I wasn't getting mail from people thinking I was more nuts than I am!