Ok. Here is the controversial question. On Team Canada, who is 2C? Stamkos, Toews or Bergeron?
- faustus1500

Who cares. Toews line will be the best!

Ok. Here is the controversial question. On Team Canada, who is 2C? Stamkos, Toews or Bergeron?
- faustus1500

Giroux with Stamkos moved to a wing, or possibly the other way around. Bergeron and Toews will play on the third line, with Toews possibly moving to wing and you'll find both will have huge roles on the team despite where they line up.

Meh. He will likely start for Team Canada at the Olympics. What happened to all of those great goalies from Quebec?
- faustus1500

Crawford is from Montreal.

[quote=faustus1500]

It will likely go up, but will it go up 10%? Highly unlikely.

The issues are these. At the present level of the cap, the Hawks have very little wiggle room. So let's say it goes up next summer—generously—$4 million. They might—or just as iikely might not—save a little money replacing Khabibulin and Handzus.

Hjalmarsson and Crawford are UFA, and Shaw is RFA. Shaw gets a million dollar raise. Hjalmarsson gets at least a million more.

So, in theory, that leaves $2 million more for Crawford's raise, right?

Wrong.

First, the Hawks likely won't want to go right up to the cap, nor should they.

Second, Kane and Toews come due the following summer—you can't assume the cap will go up commensurately—can't— and you could be looking $2 million raises for each of those guys regardless. Also, Kruger, Saad and Leddy come up for new deals that summer.

So what happens in the summer of 2014 is very much about what will need to happen n the summer of 2015. And it's why Crawford isn't getting a $2 million plus raise.

[quote=faustus1500]

It will likely go up, but will it go up 10%? Highly unlikely.

The issues are these. At the present level of the cap, the Hawks have very little wiggle room. So let's say it goes up next summer—generously—$4 million. They might—or just as iikely might not—save a little money replacing Khabibulin and Handzus.

Hjalmarsson and Crawford are UFA, and Shaw is RFA. Shaw gets a million dollar raise. Hjalmarsson gets at least a million more.

So, in theory, that leaves $2 million more for Crawford's raise, right?

Wrong.

First, the Hawks likely won't want to go right up to the cap, nor should they.

Second, Kane and Toews come due the following summer—you can't assume the cap will go up commensurately—can't— and you could be looking $2 million raises for each of those guys regardless. Also, Kruger, Saad and Leddy come up for new deals that summer.

So what happens in the summer of 2014 is very much about what will need to happen n the summer of 2015. And it's why Crawford isn't getting a $2 million plus raise.
- John Jaeckel

Don't know how much it will affect the cap, but I think the two Canadian national TV contracts are up for renewal next summer: could be a big annual increase.

No way, I think Crow was great in the playoffs, especially the first two rounds. I just think Canada has better options. I don't think he's elite. He falls in the 12-18 range of starting goalies for me. All the guys I listed have posted better numbers than Crow this year behind the best D in the NHL while starting over 60 games in the past 3 years. Could Crow make it, no doubt, I just think proclaiming him the starter when he wasn't in the conversation 45 games ago is premature and incorrect
- rollpards19

DING DING DING DING

Don't know how much it will affect the cap, but I think the two Canadian national TV contracts are up for renewal next summer: could be a big annual increase.
- StLBravesFan

1) Will the cap be adjusted for 2014 before those deals are re-worked? I don't think so.

2) Will Pat Brisson (Kane and Toews' agent) conveniently ignore that fact in terms of where he sets the bar for his clients—just so Corey Crawford can get paid a lot?

I mean, we'll see. There are still suspicions about Crawford's glove and propensity for soft goals at bad times. And those are not just my questions, or those of "haters," those are legitimate questions that some hockey people have.

I'll go back also to the stat I cited when comparing Crawford to the much-maligned Cristobal Huet. Very similar career numbers, except Crawford has played behind better defenses—AND Huet (like many other goalies) has averaged more shutouts. Crawford is a guy—speaking very broadly—who seems to give up 2 goals a game, playing behind the best defense in the league. But also rarely just shuts everything down. Really, the hallmark of an average goalie playing behind a great defense.

I just don't think we've ever seen Crawford really carry this team for any length of time. Maybe the Cup win gives him more confidence. maybe a new G coach helps him address some technical issues (like glove position). Dunno.

The other just as large question is if there is an equal or better replacement. Raanta? Maybe. if not him, someone else out there maybe. Or maybe not.

Crow's gonna leave because we female dog him on hockeybuzz? Ok man. They won in spite of Luongo's .927 and 9 goals in a 5-0 campaign? I'm sure. The team that gave up such a few number of shots in the playoffs was bailed out by their goalie, that's good to know. Again, good to know Fleury and Crawford are better than Rinne and Lundquist too because of their team accomplishments. Also by your logic no player would ever reach free agency that is developed by his own team. Get off your high horse.
- rollpards19

Don't even bother. This guy's been lurking around here with his pom poms and taking personal shots at anyone who questions any of his heroes for years.

And Crawford did NOT deserve the Smythe.

1) Will the cap be adjusted for 2014 before those deals are re-worked? I don't think so.

2) Will Pat Brisson (Kane and Toews' agent) conveniently ignore that fact in terms of where he sets the bar for his clients—just so Corey Crawford can get paid a lot?

I mean, we'll see. There are still suspicions about Crawford's glove and propensity for soft goals at bad times. And those are not just my questions, or those of "haters," those are legitimate questions that some hockey people have.

I'll go back also to the stat I cited when comparing Crawford to the much-maligned Cristobal Huet. Very similar career numbers, except Crawford has played behind better defenses—AND Huet (like many other goalies) has averaged more shutouts. Crawford is a guy—speaking very broadly—who seems to give up 2 goals a game, playing behind the best defense in the league. But also rarely just shuts everything down. Really, the hallmark of an average goalie playing behind a great defense.

I just don't think we've ever seen Crawford really carry this team for any length of time. Maybe the Cup win gives him more confidence. maybe a new G coach helps him address some technical issues (like glove position). Dunno.

The other just as large question is if there is an equal or better replacement. Raanta? Maybe. if not him, someone else out there maybe. Or maybe not.
- John Jaeckel

At some point, the new deals will have to be included in the 14-15 HRR calculation - my guess is the new deals get done before the end of next season, or get estimated into the cap, or get doubled up for 15-16.

I wasn't suggesting the new TV deals would affect Crawford: I think the Hawks limit or him would be $3.5-$4.0MM - which I also think he could beat in the open market.

Don't even bother. This guy's been lurking around here with his pom poms and taking personal shots at anyone who questions any of his heroes for years.

And Crawford did NOT deserve the Smythe.
- John Jaeckel

While I agree that Crawford is an average to above average goalie - who would have a slightly positive WAR, if such a convoluted stat existed in hockey - who would not e worth more than $3.5-$4.0MM to the Hawks - he did have an excellent play-off run.

Even tho well-protected, he still had to make SOME saves, critical saves at critical times, helped by a goal post or two - but still, didn't blow games, helped keep them in games, saved the occasional defensive lapse.

He did what he had to do when he had to do it.

Goalies.....

Again, too soon to truly prognosticate what will happen. There are a few possibilities that could play out yet.

1. Antti 2.0 could become Hannu 2.0 and never adjust to smaller ice. Again - the dude has never played one game on North American ice.

2. Corey could see how good he has it playing in Chicago behind the defense and take a homer deal to stay long term.

3. Corey could crap the bed this season, making him untradable, leaving 40 year old Khabi and Mac Carruth as your two best goalies, with no cap room to wiggle with.

My money is on scenario #2.

As far as Crawford goes, I think he's somewhere in the middle between average/ok and elite. To me he's a pretty good goalie who won't necessarily steal a team many games but will never really piss any games away or let them get out of hand either. You can pretty much count on him giving up about 2 goals a game and playing on a team like the Hawks, they should win the majority of those games. I also don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm fine with CC as the Hawks goalie this upcoming season.

All that being said he still has room to improve his game even though he just won a Cup. I look at a guy like Niemi who is a much better goalie now than when he was with the Hawks in 2010.

Also unless CC has a complete joke of season next year I expect him to cash in next Summer either Chicago or somewhere else, especially if the Hawks make another deep run.
- dan9189

Corey Crawford STOLE 2 of the most important games of the Stanley Cup Finals....the first and last. PERIOD.

Quick thoughts

-Hawks may sign another vet for depth at F, but I fully expect them to give Pirri, Morin and Smith a crack at the everyday line up. Honestly I'm not really bothered by it. A majority of the Cup team is back unlike 2010-2011. I expect this team to be a juggernaut once again.

-As for Crawford, if he wants big money he probably won't find it here and I would not blame him if he went and cashed in elsewhere. Next Summer could be wide open for goalies as well. Currently guys who would be UFA's next year are Crawford, Halak, Elliot, Lundqvist, Miller, Hiller, Emery, Vokoun, Gigure and Nabokov. I think the Hawks go to up to $4-$4.5 mil a year for CC but that's it. If all goes well and they win the Cup again, he'll probably completely price himself out of Chicago.
- dan9189

I agree with you about Crawford except I think the FO will see how Crawford is doing mid-season prior to the Olympics and if he continues to play as well as this past season then I think the FO will try and sign him to a reasonable extension ($3-4.5 M max) before the season ends. It's up to him then.
Edit: The amount they offer will also depend on how the FO evaluates Raanta's development.

I don't disagree with what you wrote but here is my take...

Those who thought Raanta was signd to play this season didn't get a copy of Bowman's script.

He was never in the mix and the Hawks were not going to pay him a $1.4 mill to sit around and learn up in Chicago.

So Kahbby was a target not an afterthought...

Contracts are all about value and cap allocation depending on positon and ranking on the team.

That's why I said a few months ago Oduya or Frolik could be sell hgh candidates. Bolland was offered around last summer for a reason and now he proved to be overpaid as a 4th liner.

Leddy signed a shorter term deal so Frolik became the one shipped out not Oduya.

Next summer the question will be if the Hawks want to hang onto Odyuya or Leddy.

The math tells me both could be making too much money to play on the third pair. If Leddy is going to be in Chgo as a fixture beyond ths season then look for Oduya to go. If not Leddy could be dealt with one year remaing on his contract.

Bowman might not end up being correct but he did exactly what I would have done and traded Bolland who was too expensive for a 4th line role and the same could be said for Frolik.

Crawford's new deal could never happen as JJ points out or he could get a contract similar to someone he has been compared to, Jimmy Howard....Ken Holland has adjusted his methods too.
But if that happens other changes must take place.

For now the entire defense is back and that should bode well.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

Corey Crawford STOLE 2 of the most important games of the Stanley Cup Finals....the first and last. PERIOD.
- philco28

Crawford was the best Hawk from the opening series through the entire playoffs...He started out well and others did come on later.

I watched Game 6 again the other night....Eerytime I watch that game Crawford looks better than the time before.

Kane was correct when he gave him the Belt at the Cup rally he was the MVP in the playoffs.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

Crawford was the best Hawk from the opening series through the entire playoffs...He started out well and others did come on later.

I watched Game 6 again the other night....Eerytime I watch that game Crawford looks better than the time before.

Kane was correct when he gave him the Belt at the Cup rally he was the MVP in the playoffs.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

Bickell, in numerous very important ways, but we will agree to disagree

Don't even bother. This guy's been lurking around here with his pom poms and taking personal shots at anyone who questions any of his heroes for years.

And Crawford did NOT deserve the Smythe.
- John Jaeckel

I find your lack of faith in Crawford disturbing.

I agree with most, if not all, of your points on how Stan will handle the goalie situation. But I think you don't give Crawford enough credit. I'm not saying he's an elite net minder, but he's certainly above average. I agree that a lot of Crawford's success is a result of the team defense. But in 2010/2011 the team defense wasn't good but Crawford was.

I find your lack of faith in Crawford disturbing.

I agree with most, if not all, of your points on how Stan will handle the goalie situation. But I think you don't give Crawford enough credit. I'm not saying he's an elite net minder, but he's certainly above average. I agree that a lot of Crawford's success is a result of the team defense. But in 2010/2011 the team defense wasn't good but Crawford was.
- DarthKane

Agree with every single thing you said here, Darth. The only way one could watch this playoff run and think Crawford did not play well above an average NHL goalie is to have gone in thinking Crawford sucks and not be willing to consider new evidence (i.e., bias). Kane's statement when receiving the Conn Smythe (he did not need to cite Crawford there), and the team giving him the belt at the parade tell us that his teammates think he's damn good. But wtf do they know about hockey, eh?

With me, more a "like/hate/like/hate/like" relationship. He won't win you a series, but, with a good defense in front of him, he won't lose you one - and he will help the defense more than he hurts it.

As I said last blog, I'd go about a million over hit hit now - to, say, hope for $3.5MM but probably go to $4MM - IF Hjalmarsson gets signed first.
- StLBravesFan

He will win you a series ....he just won 4...

Bickell, in numerous very important ways, but we will agree to disagree
- John Jaeckel

I'm with Al on this one.....I think Bickel did his job....finally ....crow was stellar

He will win you a series ....he just won 4...
- southernhawk

Well, he had at least a little help from the 20 skaters in front of him.

At least a little....

I find your lack of faith in Crawford disturbing.

I agree with most, if not all, of your points on how Stan will handle the goalie situation. But I think you don't give Crawford enough credit. I'm not saying he's an elite net minder, but he's certainly above average. I agree that a lot of Crawford's success is a result of the team defense. But in 2010/2011 the team defense wasn't good but Crawford was.
- DarthKane

Give it up Darth...

No matter how low the GA, no matter how high the Save%, no matter now many wins, no matter how many awards, no matter how many Cups...

CC will always be average, he'll always give up "softies", he'll always go down to quick, he'll always have a lousy glove side, he'll always wander out of the crease, he'll always lose his angles, he'll always be slow post-to-post and all his success will be the result of the players in front of him...

...that's the prevailing view of many here at JJ's, including JJ it seems, and nothing will change it.

That said, I DO NOT want to sign him to a fat, long term contract. Inexpensive goaltending and a great defensive corps is the way to go.

Edit...inexpensive and reliably good goaltending...

I'm gonna try to give my viewpoint on Crawford and goalies. First off, I'm not a Crawford fanboy.

1. Is Crawford elite?

Probably not. Although his stats say he kind of is. Regular season stats were up there, same as playoff stats.

2. I think part of classifying Crawford is his past. It still kind of haunts us, can't help thinking of the Phoenix series. But that was 2 seasons ago. This season he has shown great strides in his play. The defence was pretty much the same these few past seasons. Can't help to say that Crawford actually got and did better himself.


3. Quick, Rinne, Lunqvist, Crawford. Which 3 would you choose? Yeah I know. Pretty easy eh?

Although, stats are very similar among this group, and all respective teams are really good at "D".



4. I understand Hawks defence is awesome. But Quick and Rask played with arguably "almost" or "as" good defences didn't they?


5. I do agree with the Bowman's approach of building the "d" so you don't overpay the goalie.

One thing about how much Crawford gets paid in a couple years: there is a debate about this. More than $4 mill then goodbye. Less than maybe you can stay.

The deal with this is this: The cap went up then down then most likely back up. The price for players will also go up whether it is a goalie or forward. Kind of like inflation. A chocolate bar in the 80's was like 50 cents. Nowadays, probably $2. Even though Crawford is worth about 3 mill now. If the cap were to go up to 75 or 80 mill, the average goalie price also goes up. Players can be paid more because of this inflatory prices. He isn't worth 4-5 mill with a cap of $64 mill. But is he worth 4-5 mill with a a cap around 75 mill? Maybe so.


6. I think this year for Crawford is important. If he continues upward like he has, then we should be talking about Top Ten Goalie status for #50. If he goes back to his Phoenix series, well then we know.

7. All prices being equal. Do I draft Lunq, Rinne, Quick before Crawford. Damn right.

But, if I put a $1 mill goalie in, regardless of the Hawks defence, we don't win the cup
This year. He made big saves, played very well, and kept the Hawks in the games when they didn't play well and considering how many games went to OT and were one goal games.


That's it for now.

Give it up Darth...

No matter how low the GA, no matter how high the Save%, no matter now many wins, no matter how many awards, no matter how many Cups...

CC will always be average, he'll always give up "softies", he'll always go down to quick, he'll always have a lousy glove side, he'll always wander out of the crease, he'll always lose his angles, he'll always be slow post-to-post and all his success will be the result of the players in front of him...

...that's the prevailing view of many here at JJ's, including JJ it seems, and nothing will change it.

That said, I DO NOT want to sign him to a fat, long term contract. Inexpensive goaltending and a great defensive corps is the way to go.
- ArlingtonRob

One minor alteration - Inexpensive but good goaltending.....

Crawford was the best Hawk from the opening series through the entire playoffs...He started out well and others did come on later.

I watched Game 6 again the other night....Eerytime I watch that game Crawford looks better than the time before.

Kane was correct when he gave him the Belt at the Cup rally he was the MVP in the playoffs.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

Crow was OUTSTANDING in Game 6...gave us a chance and bought us valuable time to settle down and find our game which we did. We outshot Boston 25-13 I believe through the last 40 minutes and the Lucic goal was an anomaly. We carried the play the last 2 frames.

And in Game 1...Crow made 29 saves in o/t before Shin Pad FINALLY lit the lamp.