No, he had some good games and a couple of not so good games, most notably the game where Boston just repeatedly exposed his glove over and over again. That was not a Smythe performance by a goalie. He saw less shots and less quality shots game after game. Not a Smythe oerformance. He never had to carry the team.

Agreed and disagreed on the glove. It was plainly obvious to EVERYONE, Boston (and Detroit too) were going after his glove, and with great success. Their players said as much.
- John Jaeckel

You mean the game they won? And the game Rask gave up 1 more?

No, he had some good games and a couple of not so good games, most notably the game where Boston just repeatedly exposed his glove over and over again. That was not a Smythe performance by a goalie. He saw less shots and less quality shots game after game. Not a Smythe oerformance. He never had to carry the team.

Agreed and disagreed on the glove. It was plainly obvious to EVERYONE, Boston (and Detroit too) were going after his glove, and with great success. Their players said as much.
- John Jaeckel

They all have flaws as did Niemi in the last Cup run.

Crawford outplayed every goalie he faced...Howard, Quick and Rask and that's all he needed to do.

I don't think any team really had great success against him...A .926 Sv % and a goals against average below 2.0 is very good.

At some point I can't keep discounting his performances becasue the team plays great defense.

Hey Al, I posted this earlier about Crawford, was curious about what your view on it was:


I'm gonna try to give my viewpoint on Crawford and goalies. First off, I'm not a Crawford fanboy.

1. Is Crawford elite?

Probably not. Although his stats say he kind of is. Regular season stats were up there, same as playoff stats.

2. I think part of classifying Crawford is his past. It still kind of haunts us, can't help thinking of the Phoenix series. But that was 2 seasons ago. This season he has shown great strides in his play. The defence was pretty much the same these few past seasons. Can't help to say that Crawford actually got and did better himself.


3. Quick, Rinne, Lunqvist, Crawford. Which 3 would you choose? Yeah I know. Pretty easy eh?

Although, stats are very similar among this group, and all respective teams are really good at "D".



4. I understand Hawks defence is awesome. But Quick and Rask played with arguably "almost" or "as" good defences didn't they?


5. I do agree with the Bowman's approach of building the "d" so you don't overpay the goalie.

One thing about how much Crawford gets paid in a couple years: there is a debate about this. More than $4 mill then goodbye. Less than maybe you can stay.

The deal with this is this: The cap went up then down then most likely back up. The price for players will also go up whether it is a goalie or forward. Kind of like inflation. A chocolate bar in the 80's was like 50 cents. Nowadays, probably $2. Even though Crawford is worth about 3 mill now. If the cap were to go up to 75 or 80 mill, the average goalie price also goes up. Players can be paid more because of this inflatory prices. He isn't worth 4-5 mill with a cap of $64 mill. But is he worth 4-5 mill with a a cap around 75 mill? Maybe so.


6. I think this year for Crawford is important. If he continues upward like he has, then we should be talking about Top Ten Goalie status for #50. If he goes back to his Phoenix series, well then we know.

7. All prices being equal. Do I draft Lunq, Rinne, Quick before Crawford. Damn right.

But, if I put a $1 mill goalie in, regardless of the Hawks defence, we don't win the cup
This year. He made big saves, played very well, and kept the Hawks in the games when they didn't play well and considering how many games went to OT and were one goal games.


That's it for now.

They all have flaws as did Niemi in the last Cup run.

Crawford outplayed every goalie he faced...Howard, Quick and Rask and that's all he needed to do.

I don't think any team really had great success against him...A .926 Sv % and a goals against average below 2.0 is very good.

At some point I can't keep discounting his performances becasue the team plays great defense.
- Al

Strangely Crawford's name isn't coming up in many discussions about who will play net for Team Canada during the Olympics. Luongo, Smith and Fleury of all people are getting more mention. There is allot of thought amongst the media in Canada that Crawford was the beneficiary of great defence rather than the team getting great goaltending.

Hey Al, I posted this earlier about Crawford, was curious about what your view on it was:


I'm gonna try to give my viewpoint on Crawford and goalies. First off, I'm not a Crawford fanboy.

1. Is Crawford elite?

Probably not. Although his stats say he kind of is. Regular season stats were up there, same as playoff stats.

2. I think part of classifying Crawford is his past. It still kind of haunts us, can't help thinking of the Phoenix series. But that was 2 seasons ago. This season he has shown great strides in his play. The defence was pretty much the same these few past seasons. Can't help to say that Crawford actually got and did better himself.


3. Quick, Rinne, Lunqvist, Crawford. Which 3 would you choose? Yeah I know. Pretty easy eh?

Although, stats are very similar among this group, and all respective teams are really good at "D".



4. I understand Hawks defence is awesome. But Quick and Rask played with arguably "almost" or "as" good defences didn't they?


5. I do agree with the Bowman's approach of building the "d" so you don't overpay the goalie.

One thing about how much Crawford gets paid in a couple years: there is a debate about this. More than $4 mill then goodbye. Less than maybe you can stay.

The deal with this is this: The cap went up then down then most likely back up. The price for players will also go up whether it is a goalie or forward. Kind of like inflation. A chocolate bar in the 80's was like 50 cents. Nowadays, probably $2. Even though Crawford is worth about 3 mill now. If the cap were to go up to 75 or 80 mill, the average goalie price also goes up. Players can be paid more because of this inflatory prices. He isn't worth 4-5 mill with a cap of $64 mill. But is he worth 4-5 mill with a a cap around 75 mill? Maybe so.


6. I think this year for Crawford is important. If he continues upward like he has, then we should be talking about Top Ten Goalie status for #50. If he goes back to his Phoenix series, well then we know.

7. All prices being equal. Do I draft Lunq, Rinne, Quick before Crawford. Damn right.

But, if I put a $1 mill goalie in, regardless of the Hawks defence, we don't win the cup
This year. He made big saves, played very well, and kept the Hawks in the games when they didn't play well and considering how many games went to OT and were one goal games.


That's it for now.
- robhawks

1. Nope......... has not been good enough long enough to be elite.

2. Crawford didn't lose the Coyote series even though he ave up some bad goals. The team couldn't score and desrved what they got.

3. Crawford doesn't have to be a top 5 goal tender to be very valuable and be well paid. Another season close to last season and he will be considered to be one of the top 10.

4. Yes, pretty much but those teams can't finish and that's why the Hawks won out.

5. Too early for me to say he will be a $ 4 mill goalie or will be gone. Have to see this season and how much the Cap goes up.
Even the Wings swallowed hard and paid Howard big money on a long term deal.

I stated earlier the money will come from those who Mgt feels are overpaid.

This year is was Frolik and Bolland....Next year either Oduya or Leddy could be drawing the short straws.

Plus I wouldn't be surpried if the Cap goes back over $70 mill. Attendance will be up and so will mearchandising....Hawks logo sells everywhere.

To put Crawford in the same comversation as goalies making close to $7 mill per says something.

Strangely Crawford's name isn't coming up in many discussions about who will play net for Team Canada during the Olympics. Luongo, Smith and Fleury of all people are getting more mention. There is allot of thought amongst the media in Canada that Crawford was the beneficiary of great defence rather than the team getting great goaltending.
- paulr

Luongo will be part of it unless he has an awful start to the year. To me the other spot is up in the air.

Luongo will be part of it unless he has an awful start to the year. To me the other spot is up in the air.
- Al

I think Luongo will start for team Canada and Price will back him up. The third spot will go to Ward or Crawford.

Rask at $7M or Crawford at $4M is the more appropriate question in the cap era, I think. The Bowman's would pick Crawford.
- mohel

Crawford 1 Cup

Rask 0

1. Nope......... has not been good enough long enough to be elite.

2. Crawford didn't lose the Coyote series even though he ave up some bad goals. The team couldn't score and desrved what they got.

3. Crawford doesn't have to be a top 5 goal tender to be very valuable and be well paid. Another season close to last season and he will be considered to be one of the top 10.

4. Yes, pretty much but those teams can't finish and that's why the Hawks won out.

5. Too early for me to say he will be a $ 4 mill goalie or will be gone. Have to see this season and how much the Cap goes up.
Even the Wings swallowed hard and paid Howard big money on a long term deal.

I stated earlier the money will come from those who Mgt feels are overpaid.

This year is was Frolik and Bolland....Next year either Oduya or Leddy could be drawing the short straws.

Plus I wouldn't be surpried if the Cap goes back over $70 mill. Attendance will be up and so will mearchandising....Hawks logo sells everywhere.

To put Crawford in the same comversation as goalies making close to $7 mill per says something.
- Al

Thanks Al. All good points, close to what I thought as well. This coming year is big for Crawford.

I think Luongo will start for team Canada and Price will back him up. The third spot will go to Ward or Crawford.
- DarthKane

Luongo, Price, Smith, Holtby and Crawford will be invited. Pick the two that won't be going to Russia.

Ward missed too much time with injury last year. Reimer and Bernier are untested and won't be invited.

I'd go with Price, Smith and Holtby.

Luongo, Price, Smith, Holtby and Crawford will be invited. Pick the two that won't be going to Russia.

Ward missed too much time with injury last year. Reimer and Bernier are untested and won't be invited.

I'd go with Price, Smith and Holtby.
- RickJ

Smith and Holtby won't be there. Crawford has the cup.

The issue isn't so much whether Crawford is an elite goalie. If the Hawks follow the Detroit model and not invest a lot of money in that position elite or not Crawford doesn't get paid. I don't think Bowman would pay the money to Marty Brodeur or Patrick Roy in their primes. I think most would agree that it's much more important to have the money and cap space to get Toews and Kane locked up when the time comes.

Smith and Holtby won't be there. Crawford has the cup.
- robhawks

Luongo was a backup goalie last I checked and price hasn't got a Cup either.

The issue isn't so much whether Crawford is an elite goalie. If the Hawks follow the Detroit model and not invest a lot of money in that position elite or not Crawford doesn't get paid. I don't think Bowman would pay the money to Marty Brodeur or Patrick Roy in their primes. I think most would agree that it's much more important to have the money and cap space to get Toews and Kane locked up when the time comes.
- jhawk159

By Chicago.

Don't even bother. This guy's been lurking around here with his pom poms and taking personal shots at anyone who questions any of his heroes for years.

And Crawford did NOT deserve the Smythe.
- John Jaeckel

My voting card would have been:

1. Keith
2. Kane
3. Bickell/Crawford (flip a coin)

Luongo was a backup goalie last I checked and price hasn't got a Cup either.
- RickJ

Luongo is the #1 goalie in Vancouver.

Luongo is the #1 goalie in Vancouver.
- DarthKane

He wasn't until Schneider was traded at the draft.

He wasn't until Schneider was traded at the draft.
- RickJ

And that was clearly a mistake in Vancovuer which Gillis corrected at the draft.

There aren't too many Canadian goalies you can say are a lot better than Luongo.

And that was clearly a mistake in Vancovuer which Gillis corrected at the draft.

There aren't too many Canadian goalies you can say are a lot better than Luongo.
- DarthKane

I agree, and that's not the best thing for the Canadians. But, like the Hawks they probably have the best overall talent and maybe they will get by with him.

And that was clearly a mistake in Vancovuer which Gillis corrected at the draft.

There aren't too many Canadian goalies you can say are a lot better than Luongo.
- DarthKane

What he corrected at the draft was his thinking that he could trade Luongo's contract which clearly he couldn't do. He and AV had long ago decided that Schneider was their #1, which means to me that they thought Schneider was a better goaltender than Luongo.

I don't care who the Canadian goaltender is, all they need to do is find someone capable of stopping 15 shots a game on the big ice. The rest of the time they should be pressing the offence with the forwards they have.

And that was clearly a mistake in Vancovuer which Gillis corrected at the draft.

There aren't too many Canadian goalies you can say are a lot better than Luongo.
- DarthKane

Not sure it was a mistake, but it was the more prudent and possible option at the time and Gillis was running out of time.

Luongo's contract was bad, but Gillis made it UNTRADEABLE with his head so far up his arse and his asking price. His asking price combined with the sudden availability of much more cost effective goalies on the market pretty much cemented Luongos roster spot in VAN. Gillis had two options: trade his other, much more movable goaltender and keep luongo OR buy him out.

We see how it shook out, but can you imagine if Luongo just has a stinker of a year? What does VAN do then? Last year of the buyout window and of all the goalie options, Eddie Lack is far from a given and they will have gone from a stud three prong goalie rotation (with lack being a nice third option if hell broke loose), but going from Vezina candidate goalie to career AHLer wont work out so well

We did it with Crawford and we had to go through some ugly playoff appearances and reinforce the Defense top to bottom just to get out of the first round

Luongo, Price, Smith, Holtby and Crawford will be invited. Pick the two that won't be going to Russia.

Ward missed too much time with injury last year. Reimer and Bernier are untested and won't be invited.

I'd go with Price, Smith and Holtby.
- RickJ

Crawford would be my first choice behind a STACKED Canadian D corps.

Not sure it was a mistake, but it was the more prudent and possible option at the time and Gillis was running out of time.

Luongo's contract was bad, but Gillis made it UNTRADEABLE with his head so far up his arse and his asking price. His asking price combined with the sudden availability of much more cost effective goalies on the market pretty much cemented Luongos roster spot in VAN. Gillis had two options: trade his other, much more movable goaltender and keep luongo OR buy him out.

We see how it shook out, but can you imagine if Luongo just has a stinker of a year? What does VAN do then? Last year of the buyout window and of all the goalie options, Eddie Lack is far from a given and they will have gone from a stud three prong goalie rotation (with lack being a nice third option if hell broke loose), but going from Vezina candidate goalie to career AHLer wont work out so well

We did it with Crawford and we had to go through some ugly playoff appearances and reinforce the Defense top to bottom just to get out of the first round
- FourFeathers773

I've been curious why they didn't buy out Luongo and keep Schneider.

Crawford would be my first choice behind a STACKED Canadian D corps.
- philco28

Amazing reversal of opinion re Crawford on your part from a few months ago.

He'd be my #3 - because no big ice, international experience.

Amazing reversal of opinion re Crawford on your part from a few months ago.

He'd be my #3 - because no big ice, international experience.
- RickJ

Assuming Luongo doesn't "ship the bed" this fall, I'd go with him #1 - experience 4 years ago - won the tournament. Don't know if he has any big-ice experience.

Probably Price second - maybe Crawford third - dont trust Smith, Holtby seems not to have much experience.