Omg Sweden's defense

OEL - Karlsson
Edler - Kronwall
Hedman - Hjarmalsson/Oduya/etc.

Could easily be 2nd best behind only Canada. That first pairing's so sick it makes me want to change my citizenship just so I can route for them
- JAKEw1234

good thing their goalie sucks

Omg Sweden's defense

OEL - Karlsson
Edler - Kronwall
Hedman - Hjarmalsson/Oduya/etc.

Could easily be 2nd best behind only Canada. That first pairing's so sick it makes me want to change my citizenship just so I can route for them
- JAKEw1234

Exactly -- the Swedes are no joke when it comes to this stuff. They can match first-tier talent with anybody in the world.

good thing their goalie sucks
- Marc D

good thing their goalie sucks
- Marc D

If you consider goaltending part of the defense then Sweden definitely has the best defense in the tourney.

isaiah wanted to give up 2 firsts i believe..
- Crimsoninja

dude, that was some serious stuff you were sayin'....just sayin'

i've been rooting for Sweden since 1994, Lillehammer
- Crimsoninja

I have a soft spot for team Suomi

i've been rooting for Sweden since 1994, Lillehammer
- Crimsoninja

/visionary

Anyone care to talk Ryan Braunbuzz?

So, hypothetical question for anybody who is interested:

I'm always baffled at how teams that have, to be kind, struggled for many, many years with the same core...keep coming back to the party with the same core, thinking this will be the year.

I'm not trying to pick on Atlanta/Winnipeg, but that's who I'm wondering about.

The franchise, for whatever reason, simply hasn't gotten it done, in either Atlanta or Winnipeg. One playoff appearance in 13 seasons, and you could actually count that one as a loss because they moved Braydon Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik, only to get swept in the first round.

But they're coming back to the party with Bryan Little, Blake Wheeler, Andrew Ladd, Dustin Byugflien, Tobias Enstrom, Ondrej Pavelec, again. They've even extended Little and Enstrom in the last 12 months.

My question is...why? Why do some teams continually come back with the same core of players, over and over?

I understand why you keep, say, Ladd and Enstrom. Ladd seems like a good, honest captain, and Enstrom is the kind of puckmover who is hard to find.

But I guess I'm baffled at why Winnipeg's placed such a priority on signing Little and Wheeler, and keeping Byufiglien. If it were me, I'd have traded them and turned that center spot over to Mark Schiefle and changed the complexion of the team with whatever I got back for Little, Wheeler and Byfuglien, which would likely be a significant haul.

But no way do I come back with that same team. I never understand why teams to that.

Anyone care to talk Ryan Braunbuzz?
- jmatchett383

Finally got what was coming to him.

Now if only everyone else got it too.

So, hypothetical question for anybody who is interested:

I'm always baffled at how teams that have, to be kind, struggled for many, many years with the same core...keep coming back to the party with the same core, thinking this will be the year.

I'm not trying to pick on Atlanta/Winnipeg, but that's who I'm wondering about.

The franchise, for whatever reason, simply hasn't gotten it done, in either Atlanta or Winnipeg. One playoff appearance in 13 seasons, and you could actually count that one as a loss because they moved Braydon Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik, only to get swept in the first round.

But they're coming back to the party with Bryan Little, Blake Wheeler, Andrew Ladd, Dustin Byugflien, Tobias Enstrom, Ondrej Pavelec, again. They've even extended Little and Enstrom in the last 12 months.

My question is...why? Why do some teams continually come back with the same core of players, over and over?

I understand why you keep, say, Ladd and Enstrom. Ladd seems like a good, honest captain, and Enstrom is the kind of puckmover who is hard to find.

But I guess I'm baffled at why Winnipeg's placed such a priority on signing Little and Wheeler, and keeping Byufiglien. If it were me, I'd have traded them and turned that center spot over to Mark Schiefle and changed the complexion of the team with whatever I got back for Little, Wheeler and Byfuglien, which would likely be a significant haul.

But no way do I come back with that same team. I never understand why teams to that.
- AllInForFlyers

I think part of it has to do with free agent attraction. Apparently, Winnipeg has an annual average temperature of -200 or something. While in Atlanta, they were as much of a joke franchise as Columbus. So I think part of it is that there is no better solution out there.

So, hypothetical question for anybody who is interested:

I'm always baffled at how teams that have, to be kind, struggled for many, many years with the same core...keep coming back to the party with the same core, thinking this will be the year.

I'm not trying to pick on Atlanta/Winnipeg, but that's who I'm wondering about.

The franchise, for whatever reason, simply hasn't gotten it done, in either Atlanta or Winnipeg. One playoff appearance in 13 seasons, and you could actually count that one as a loss because they moved Braydon Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik, only to get swept in the first round.

But they're coming back to the party with Bryan Little, Blake Wheeler, Andrew Ladd, Dustin Byugflien, Tobias Enstrom, Ondrej Pavelec, again. They've even extended Little and Enstrom in the last 12 months.

My question is...why? Why do some teams continually come back with the same core of players, over and over?

I understand why you keep, say, Ladd and Enstrom. Ladd seems like a good, honest captain, and Enstrom is the kind of puckmover who is hard to find.

But I guess I'm baffled at why Winnipeg's placed such a priority on signing Little and Wheeler, and keeping Byufiglien. If it were me, I'd have traded them and turned that center spot over to Mark Schiefle and changed the complexion of the team with whatever I got back for Little, Wheeler and Byfuglien, which would likely be a significant haul.

But no way do I come back with that same team. I never understand why teams to that.
- AllInForFlyers

I think part of the problem is that there may not have been any other viable options.

You never know- they could have shopped those guys around for young, almost NHL ready talent and picks (like the Carter/Richards Rapture) and no one bit. Maybe Peg hasn't wanted to come back with the same core and has in fact tried to shake things up. Maybe their asking prices were too high, etc

Moreover, I'll bet the Peg isn't exactly a huge attraction for top tier UFAs, both because of their perennial mediocrity and how it's a thousand below zero all the time up there....

Finally got what was coming to him.

Now if only everyone else got it too.
- Giroux_Is_God

Tori Hunter has my favorite quote so far:

"He stepped up. It's just like when you get a ticket, a speeding ticket. You know you were speeding. You get a ticket and you go and you do your time or pay your speeding ticket, then you're doing what you're supposed to do. That's what Braunie is doing. Everybody makes mistakes. It takes a man to forgive him. If you don't forgive him, then are you a man?"

Except that, you know, he didn't step up at all, and outright lied several times.

So, hypothetical question for anybody who is interested:


- AllInForFlyers

I really thought you were gonna use Vancouver as the example.

Tori Hunter has my favorite quote so far:

"He stepped up. It's just like when you get a ticket, a speeding ticket. You know you were speeding. You get a ticket and you go and you do your time or pay your speeding ticket, then you're doing what you're supposed to do. That's what Braunie is doing. Everybody makes mistakes. It takes a man to forgive him. If you don't forgive him, then are you a man?"

Except that, you know, he didn't step up at all, and outright lied several times.
- jmatchett383

It's really making me sick. Mistakes are what Billy Buckner did.

Cheating by consciously juicing and knowing full well the ramifications of what you're doing, then trying to cover up, is not a "mistake".

Is it possible the Defense could have been bad on its own accord, and Bryz was bad on his own?

IMO Bryz's numbers were just about as good as any other average goalie, playing behind a poor defensive team. Was he horrible, NO. Was he doing the job he was being paid to do? NO. That is why they bought him out. If Bryz was signed to a 3 year 3 million dollar contract, his performance could have been overlooked, and he would likely still be on the team.
- youarewrong

Sure except that Mason had great numbers in front of the same D albeit a small sample. I understand that this is difficult because everyone has been making excuses for Bryz for two years but every other team in the world can't be wrong about this guy can they? They've all determined he's not good enough to play at the highest levels so maybe its as simple as that and its not Briere not back checking.

I really thought you were gonna use Vancouver as the example.
- JAKEw1234

They're a little different, in my opinion.

That's just a (frank)in circus up there. I wouldn't want to play there if I was a UFA, that's for damn sure....

Tori Hunter has my favorite quote so far:

"He stepped up. It's just like when you get a ticket, a speeding ticket. You know you were speeding. You get a ticket and you go and you do your time or pay your speeding ticket, then you're doing what you're supposed to do. That's what Braunie is doing. Everybody makes mistakes. It takes a man to forgive him. If you don't forgive him, then are you a man?"

Except that, you know, he didn't step up at all, and outright lied several times.
- jmatchett383

#vindicated

Sure except that Mason had great numbers in front of the same D albeit a small sample. I understand that this is difficult because everyone has been making excuses for Bryz for two years but every other team in the world can't be wrong about this guy can they? They've all determined he's not good enough to play at the highest levels so maybe its as simple as that and its not Briere not back checking.
- lar6767

"albeit a small sample"

Your point is thwarted.

Opinions on Homer's tenure, pls

I really thought you were gonna use Vancouver as the example.
- JAKEw1234

Vancouver's at least has some degree of success and is a constant playoff contender (although their window's closing fast). Atlanta/Winnipeg are just terrible.

sigh, do we really need bradley's head to get any bigger?
- aightwebang17

which on....... oh nevermind

I think part of it has to do with free agent attraction. Apparently, Winnipeg has an annual average temperature of -200 or something. While in Atlanta, they were as much of a joke franchise as Columbus. So I think part of it is that there is no better solution out there.
- jmatchett383

What a horrible fate.

I think, when you're stuck like that, you just have to take a deep breath and say, "You know what? We're just not good enough. What we have simply isn't good enough, and we're only fooling ourselves by pretending that we are good enough."

Yeah, it sucks. It really sucks to realize that you're just not where you want to be with your veteran core -- in many ways, I do think the Flyers looked at Mike Richards and Jeff Carter and said, "2010 was as good as it gets for this group; we made it to the finals as an 88-point team. We're just not good enough for the long haul."

That doesn't mean that guys like Wheeler or Byugflien -- it doesn't mean it's their fault. But not everyone is a top-3 forward on a 105-point team. Not everyone is a top-2 defenseman on a 100-point team.

I just think that even if you take a step back, you have to move those guys along. Even if you don't win the deal today.

Sure except that Mason had great numbers in front of the same D albeit a small sample. I understand that this is difficult because everyone has been making excuses for Bryz for two years but every other team in the world can't be wrong about this guy can they? They've all determined he's not good enough to play at the highest levels so maybe its as simple as that and its not Briere not back checking.
- lar6767

Steve Mason is, to me, more well-suited to play in front of a deficient defense. The outrageous amount of oddman rushes last season (up to an including the season finale) have a better chance of being stopped by an agile mobile goalie as opposed to a guy who relies on squaring up on the shot. Mason is quicker moving side-to-side, and that allowed him to handle the breakdowns better.

I really don't get what you're trying to prove though. That Mason looked better in an 8-game preview (as a fresh goalie after losing his job to Bobrovsky) that Bryzgalov over that same span (who, prior to Mason coming over, had played all but 1 game in a condensed season)? No one's debating that. That Bryz did not help himself with his on-ice and off-ice antics? No one's debating that. He didn't play up to his contract is all.

which on....... oh nevermind
- nastyflyergirl

bump

What a horrible fate.

I think, when you're stuck like that, you just have to take a deep breath and say, "You know what? We're just not good enough. What we have simply isn't good enough, and we're only fooling ourselves by pretending that we are good enough."

Yeah, it sucks. It really sucks to realize that you're just not where you want to be with your veteran core -- in many ways, I do think the Flyers looked at Mike Richards and Jeff Carter and said, "2010 was as good as it gets for this group; we made it to the finals as an 88-point team. We're just not good enough for the long haul."

That doesn't mean that guys like Wheeler or Byugflien -- it doesn't mean it's their fault. But not everyone is a top-3 forward on a 105-point team. Not everyone is a top-2 defenseman on a 100-point team.

I just think that even if you take a step back, you have to move those guys along. Even if you don't win the deal today.
- AllInForFlyers

I can't believe people still try to argue that the Carter/Richards trades hurt us... The year after we were a 100+ point, 2nd round playoff team. and our top 9 is stocked with great young talent, where as before I feel like we just filled things in with short term UFA solutions.