I'd be interested in the number of primary assists per game.
- bradleyc4

sigh

Bill, where would you put Richards? He was a pretty good setup man, although he sometimes tried too hard (passing through 3 defenders).

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Ranking the Top 10 Playmakers in Flyers History
- bmeltzer

i was watching game 1 of the sabres/flyers 2006 last night

the one where rj got killed

i was watching game 1 of the sabres/flyers 2006 last night

the one where rj got killed


- Don'tForgetTocchet

I vividly remember playing mini-sticks with my cousins during that shift and everyone just freezing after Campbell rocked him.

I vividly remember playing mini-sticks with my cousins during that shift and everyone just freezing after Campbell rocked him.
- GirouxForTheShow

i actually cheered when gagne tied it up with less than 2 minutes left

watching him and forsberg together still felt magical

The best stat is obviously Hits, followed by giveaways and takeaways.
- BulliesPhan87

Real-time stats FTW.

Real-time stats FTW.
- Tomahawk

your location

Having secondary assists = primary assists in judging a player's "playmaking" ability is foolish imo.

But the NHL says they're equal, so let's just follow protocol and we'll all be wiser.
- bradleyc4

I think it's foolish to say that a secondary assist is worth less then a primary assist.

Not saying that secondary assists are useless, just that they shouldn't be valued as much as primary ones.
- bradleyc4

One of the flawed concepts of the new advanced stats generation. In a lot of cases it's the player credited with the secondary assist, who actually made the play happen.

Carolina Hurricanes @NHLCanes
NEWS: #Canes agree to terms with winger Nathan Gerbe on one-year, two-way contract

...yup, it's July. #exciting

There are instances where even the primary assist wasn't critical to the goal being scored, and there are instances where the secondary (or even third, fourth) assist was the play that really broke down the defense.

I'm not sure there is really is a problem with the way points are awarded by the league... I'd much rather focus my ire on the farce that is PP%/PK%, +/- and listing W's as a primary goaltending stat.
- Tomahawk

Agree completely with the first point. As far as the latter, I understand the W's and the +/- argument. But what are you getting at with PP% and PK%?

Agree completely with the first point. As far as the latter, I understand the W's and the +/- argument. But what are you getting at with PP% and PK%?
- MJL

An abbreviated PP/PK (like 2 seconds) is worth as much as a 5-min PP/PK. The need to normalize it by G/2mins.

One of the flawed concepts of the new advanced stats generation. In a lot of cases it's the player credited with the secondary assist, who actually made the play happen.
- MJL

Far too many factors to say any way IMO. You can judge someones playmaking ability by watching them play. Are assists the most accurate indicator? Probably. But then breaking it down into primary or secondary as to which is more indicative to playmaking ability? Too ticky tacky. Like I said, far too many variables. Even like BC4 said, what about player who makes a wicked pass to start the breakout that doesn't get the assist?

your location
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Hehe, a little reminder to all our capgeek roster-posting friends out there.

In my opinion I would do a list based on playmaking ability, that doesn't take numbers into account. In that I think Giroux would be 3rd or 4th on the list.

1. Lindros
2. Forsberg
3. Giroux
4. Clarke
and the rest...

I think Giroux has been hampered because he hasn't had a true sniper on his line yet. Hartnell is decent at getting the garbage goals, and Voracek is more playmaker himself. Jagr during his time here was more interested in being a playmaker as well. Just saying Giroux's skills at playmaking would translate better into points if he 1, didn't have to be a goal scorer, 2, Had players like LeClair, Leetch, Barber, Etc...

One of the flawed concepts of the new advanced stats generation. In a lot of cases it's the player credited with the secondary assist, who actually made the play happen.
- MJL

One of the flawed concepts of old, archaic real-time stats generation, is that assists are heavily factored in judging a player (based on "production"); when in reality, they are arbitrarily assigned and give out the false idea that no more than three players can create a successful offense play.

An abbreviated PP/PK (like 2 seconds) is worth as much as a 5-min PP/PK. The need to normalize it by G/2mins.
- Tomahawk

I agree with that.

One of the flawed concepts of the new advanced stats generation. In a lot of cases it's the player credited with the secondary assist, who actually made the play happen.
- MJL

Erm, advanced stats don't take assists into account at all... only shot events, players on the ice and faceoff locations.

One of the flawed concepts of old, archaic real-time stats generation, is that assists are heavily factored in judging a player (based on "production"); when in reality, they are arbitrarily assigned and give out the false idea that no more than three players can create a successful offense play.
- bradleyc4

They aren't arbitrarily assigned. And if it gives out the false idea that no more then three players can create a successful offensive play, that is on the those who incorrectly come to that conclusion. Due to their ignorance, or lack of understanding of the game. And not on the stat. Same concpet as with the problem with +/-.

Erm, advanced stats don't take assists into account at all... only shot events, players on the ice and faceoff locations.
- Tomahawk

Erm, sure it does. Go on the advanced stats web sites. They breakdown primary and secondary assists per/60.

I think it's foolish to say that a secondary assist is worth less then a primary assist.
- MJL

yesss

Far too many factors to say any way IMO. You can judge someones playmaking ability by watching them play. Are assists the most accurate indicator? Probably. But then breaking it down into primary or secondary as to which is more indicative to playmaking ability? Too ticky tacky. Like I said, far too many variables. Even like BC4 said, what about player who makes a wicked pass to start the breakout that doesn't get the assist?
- GirouxForTheShow

Agree completely.

Erm, sure it does. Go on the advanced stats web sites. They breakdown primary and secondary assists per/60.
- MJL

The stats are listed, but you won't find anybody referencing their importance in player evaluations.

Advanced stats = Corsi/Fenwick/Zone-starts.

Far too many factors to say any way IMO. You can judge someones playmaking ability by watching them play. Are assists the most accurate indicator? Probably. But then breaking it down into primary or secondary as to which is more indicative to playmaking ability? Too ticky tacky. Like I said, far too many variables. Even like BC4 said, what about player who makes a wicked pass to start the breakout that doesn't get the assist?
- GirouxForTheShow

that guy needs to tell his teammates to sop touching the puck so much before it goes in the net

that guy needs to tell his teammates to sop touching the puck so much before it goes in the net
- Don'tForgetTocchet

sop