damn your good... i know it was a poopty league he played in...wonder what he would have done in the nhl
- PhillaBully

I forget who it was, hell might have actually been Gretzky himself, but whoever it was said that Hand had the ability to be one of the best ever.

EDIT: Actually I think it was Sather at Oilers camp.

damn your good... i know it was a poopty league he played in...wonder what he would have done in the nhl
- PhillaBully

He actually was picked up by Edmonton. He went to training camp, but got homesick. Apparently, Sather was upset.

Edit: From Wikipedia:
Instead of attending the Flames training camp, Hand went to the Edmonton Oilers' training camp after they had selected him in the 12th round (252nd and last overall) of 1986 NHL entry draft. There he survived the full fourteen days of camp without being cut, despite breaking his one and only stick on the first day and having to borrow one from Marty McSorley. Playing alongside players such as Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier, he impressed coach Glen Sather and was offered a contract to play Junior Hockey for a year. Suffering from homesickness, Hand turned it down but agreed to return the following year. Hand was the first of only two British born and trained player ever to have been drafted by an NHL team (the second being Colin Shields).

Before returning home to Scotland, Hand played briefly for the Junior Western Hockey League's Victoria Cougars, with whom he had trained before the Edmonton camp, scoring eight points in only three games, but returned to Scotland a few months later due to exhaustion from the demands of training, playing and press interest.

I forget who it was, hell might have actually been Gretzky himself, but whoever it was said that Hand had the ability to be one of the best ever.
- jak521

It was Sather.

Edit: Again, from Wikipedia:
The following season, Hand went back to Canada to train with the Cougars before heading to Edmonton where he played for the Oilers against Team Canada and assisted a Kevin Lowe goal. Again he was offered a contract with the farm team in Nova Scotia but again turned it down, afraid of being stuck in Junior hockey earning less than his contract in Edinburgh.

In his autobiography, Hand concedes that this was perhaps a mistake and that perhaps he should have re-negotiated the offer. In the foreword, Sather expressed his disappointment that "he didn't accept my deal because he could have advanced in North America. His progress would have been celebrated." Indeed, Sather also says "At the training camp I could see that he had a great ability to read the ice and he was the smartest player there other than Wayne Gretzky. He skated well: his intelligence on the ice stood out. He was a real prospect."

TSN did a documentary on Hand last season. Interesting story. Guy was still playing in his mid 40's last year

TSN did a documentary on Hand last season. Interesting story. Guy was still playing in his mid 40's last year
- Jsaquella

Here is an interesting question... do you think he is HHOF worthy?

Best season...

35 games 105 goals 111 assists 216 points

Here is an interesting question... do you think he is HHOF worthy?

Best season...

35 games 105 goals 111 assists 216 points
- jak521

Also had a season of 44 games 72 goals 150 assists 222 points.

He should definitely be HHOF worthy, to me. Shame it's basically the NHL HOF when it comes to male players. I don't care where you play, if you have 3000 or so career professional points, you should be in the HHOF.

Here is an interesting question... do you think he is HHOF worthy?

Best season...

35 games 105 goals 111 assists 216 points
- jak521

No, because he put up great stats in inferior leagues. Ron Flockhart put up 135 points in 33 games in a similar level league in Italy.

No, because he put up great stats in inferior leagues. Ron Flockhart put up 135 points in 33 games in a similar level league in Italy.
- Jsaquella

Did he do it for 20 years in a row?

No, because he put up great stats in inferior leagues. Ron Flockhart put up 135 points in 33 games in a similar level league in Italy.
- Jsaquella

So then what is the point of HHOF? There is the NHL HOF and the HHOF... why not just eliminate HHOF?

Did he do it for 20 years in a row?
- jmatchett383

No, but Hand did that playing at a level that is not as good as even the AHL or IHL(which was the same tier as the AHL back in the 1980's).

Had he compiled those numbers in the Swedish Elitserien or other high level league, he'd absolutely be a no brainer in terms of being a HHOFer. But a guy dominating a third tier pro league? Not a HHOFer, in my book

It was Sather.

Edit: Again, from Wikipedia:
The following season, Hand went back to Canada to train with the Cougars before heading to Edmonton where he played for the Oilers against Team Canada and assisted a Kevin Lowe goal. Again he was offered a contract with the farm team in Nova Scotia but again turned it down, afraid of being stuck in Junior hockey earning less than his contract in Edinburgh.

In his autobiography, Hand concedes that this was perhaps a mistake and that perhaps he should have re-negotiated the offer. In the foreword, Sather expressed his disappointment that "he didn't accept my deal because he could have advanced in North America. His progress would have been celebrated." Indeed, Sather also says "At the training camp I could see that he had a great ability to read the ice and he was the smartest player there other than Wayne Gretzky. He skated well: his intelligence on the ice stood out. He was a real prospect."
- jmatchett383

Wonder what he could have done in the NHL...Also read the article pretty insane how he took britain from division c to a.....

No, but Hand did that playing at a level that is not as good as even the AHL or IHL(which was the same tier as the AHL back in the 1980's).

Had he compiled those numbers in the Swedish Elitserien or other high level league, he'd absolutely be a no brainer in terms of being a HHOFer. But a guy dominating a third tier pro league? Not a HHOFer, in my book
- Jsaquella

I kind of agree.. just wanted your prospective.

To me, he was kind of a sellout. In another way, he was kind of a hero to his fans at home.

So then what is the point of HHOF? There is the NHL HOF and the HHOF... why not just eliminate HHOF?
- jak521

Because guys like Tretiak, Boris Mikhalov, Alexander Maltsev who are or should be in the HHOF because they played in the top European and Russian leagues, or for the USSR and were legendary players.

Hand played at a level comparable to the ECHL. Had he posted similar numbers in the SEL or other Elite level league, he'd be in. But he didn't play a high enough level, IMO.

Wonder what he could have done in the NHL...Also read the article pretty insane how he took britain from division c to a.....
- PhillaBully

He was also awarded MBE by the Queen.

I kind of agree.. just wanted your prospective.

To me, he was kind of a sellout. In another way, he was kind of a hero to his fans at home.
- jak521

I wouldn't call him a sell out, per se. He wanted to stay in Britain, and did play at the highest levels available to him there. If I was a pro player, making decent enough cash at home, I wouldn't jump to Sweden or the KHL if I was content.

Nothing necessarily wrong with being content to be a big fish in a small pond.

No, but Hand did that playing at a level that is not as good as even the AHL or IHL(which was the same tier as the AHL back in the 1980's).

Had he compiled those numbers in the Swedish Elitserien or other high level league, he'd absolutely be a no brainer in terms of being a HHOFer. But a guy dominating a third tier pro league? Not a HHOFer, in my book
- Jsaquella

I'd wager he's a better player than Geraldine Heaney.

I'd wager he's a better player than Geraldine Heaney.
- jmatchett383

I'm sure he is. But she is another category. I'm sure that Doug Crossman was better than her, too.

But, (frank) Doug Crossman

Maybe I'm a little different but how do you guys name certain eras? Everyone has the 90's chocked down as the Lindros Era and Giroux is close behind but as much I did like Richards and Carter, I do not consider them an Era. I do love Gagne but same for him. I have the Lindros, Roenick, Forsberg and Briere Era. Now we're heading into the Lecavalier Era. Am I off base because Giroux awesome but he's young and hasn't had the same big moments as these guys. Am I wrong?

I'm sure he is. But she is another category. I'm sure that Doug Crossman was better than her, too.

But, (frank) Doug Crossman
- Jsaquella

But she gets in on her accomplishments playing at a non-NHL/AHL/SEL level. Tony Hand is in the same boat as her, in my opinion.

Maybe I'm a little different but how do you guys name certain eras? Everyone has the 90's chocked down as the Lindros Era and Giroux is close behind but as much I did like Richards and Carter, I do not consider them an Era. I do love Gagne but same for him. I have the Lindros, Roenick, Forsberg and Briere Era. Now we're heading into the Lecavalier Era. Am I off base because Giroux awesome but he's young and hasn't had the same big moments as these guys. Am I wrong?
- dingo8urbaby

I'd have to say that, if this in an era at all, it's either the Giroux era or the Adam Hall era.

I'd have to say that, if this in an era at all, it's either the Giroux era or the Adam Hall era.
- jmatchett383

Think of the amount of time Simon Gagne has been around this franchise and the crap he has seen since since he's rookie year, which was the tail end of the Lindros days.

The tail end of the Lindros years.
The Ken Hitchcock years
JR and Primeau
Game 6 vs. TB
Peter Forsberg
Worst year in history of franchise
Frick and Frack era
2010 Stanley Cup run
The start of the Giroux era

Think of the amount of time Simon Gagne has been around this franchise and the crap he has seen since since he's rookie year, which was the tail end of the Lindros days.

The tail end of the Lindros years.
The Ken Hitchcock years
JR and Primeau
Game 6 vs. TB
Peter Forsberg
Worst year in history of franchise
Frick and Frack era
2010 Stanley Cup run
The start of the Giroux era
- johndewar

Yes. But that's just the thing. He was here for the Lindros years, the JR/Primeau years, the Forsberg years, etc. No one was here for "the Gagne years." He was always the other guy.

But she gets in on her accomplishments playing at a non-NHL/AHL/SEL level. Tony Hand is in the same boat as her, in my opinion.
- jmatchett383

Heaney, Angela James and Cammi Granato all played at the highest possible levels that women could attain. Hand could have played at a higher level, but didn't.

I can't agree that great numbers against inferior skill level players should be a ticket to the HHOF.

I'd have to say that, if this in an era at all, it's either the Giroux era or the Adam Hall era.
- jmatchett383

I think Bryz should get his own era too.

Yes I'm completely serious.

I think Bryz should get his own era too.

Yes I'm completely serious.
- Giroux_Is_God

Yes, but that's a whole different area.