Thats why I said I "Believe". Think about it..... all those injuries and lose by 1 goal in game 7.
- GOA88

I'm talking about your Leighton comment.

We're on the same page with the 2004 team.

I'm fine with unions protecting players. But they do everything in their power to stop the MLB from testing the players, basically saying, "We know our members are cheating, and we're going to stop you from finding out." I just can't agree with that. Basically, they're protecting cheaters...multimillionaire cheaters...multimillionaire cheaters who young kids look up to.
- jmatchett383

Many players have said there will be a vote following the season to make penalties for steroid use much stronger. Just about all players are in agreement with making the penalties much harsher. Maybe 1 season for first use and lifetime ban for second.

The union has also allowed these players to be suspended despite none of them failing a test. (Except for Braun, but that's a whole other story).

The union is supporting A-rod because they HAVE TO. It's their job. They want to know why A-rod is getting 211 games while the others are getting 50. Their argument isn't that A-rod shouldn't be suspended but why he is suspended for so much longer.

I'm talking about your Leighton comment.

We're on the same page with the 2004 team.
- KGBflyers10

Well I never said Boucher either, he was hurt. Leighton was horrible against Chicago. If he was at least average against them I think we win

When Hitch was first hired I loved everything about him. He was very good at expressing his goals & tactics. He seemed like he motivated his players and they were almost always prepared.......

That is, when he had a teams full of veterans. After the fist lock-out the league changed and the Flyers needed to bring up younger players due to the cap.

Hitch (at that time) had neither the patience nor the desire to "teach." Thus began the parade of talented young players who went onto be significant players on other (cup) winning teams.

Only at the risk of his career did he change his style of coaching and decide to develop young talent.

Lavi has his faults but he doesn't give up on the kids like Hitch did during his time here.

Many players have said there will be a vote following the season to make penalties for steroid use much stronger. Just about all players are in agreement with making the penalties much harsher. Maybe 1 season for first use and lifetime ban for second.

The union has also allowed these players to be suspended despite none of them failing a test. (Except for Braun, but that's a whole other story).

The union is supporting A-rod because they HAVE TO. It's their job. They want to know why A-rod is getting 211 games while the others are getting 50. Their argument isn't that A-rod shouldn't be suspended but why he is suspended for so much longer.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well, to be honest, I haven't been keeping up with the union over the past few years. And I know their main argument for A-Rod is the length. But I know that, in the past, the union has done everything in its power to keep players from being tested, basically because it was so rampant and they didn't want MLB finding out.

If the union is serious and does open its doors to testers and states that they want severe punishments like the one you stated, then I'd be okay with that.

Well I never said Boucher either, he was hurt. Leighton was horrible against Chicago. If he was at least average against them I think we win
- GOA88

But if you don't have Leighton, you probably don't get past Boston...heck, your probably aren't in that do-or-die game vs NYR without him.

Well I never said Boucher either, he was hurt. Leighton was horrible against Chicago. If he was at least average against them I think we win
- GOA88

Both teams allowed a myriad of scoring chances. The whole series was a shootout. Leighton didn't play well, but he was far from the only one. There were so many high level scoring chances for very talented players.

But if you don't have Leighton, you probably don't get past Boston...heck, your probably aren't in that do-or-die game vs NYR without him.
- jmatchett383

When Leighton first got to Philly in 2009-2010, he was their best player for a couple of stretches during the regular season.

And given that that season came down to a shoot out, turns out they needed every single point.

But if you don't have Leighton, you probably don't get past Boston...heck, your probably aren't in that do-or-die game vs NYR without him.
- jmatchett383

Thats debatable. I think Gagne was the spark, Leighton was good for the Boston series except game 7 and great against Mtl and then his hot streak ended and he came back to earth, played like an AHL goalie in the cup. Still better than Bryz though... Can I get an amen to that?!

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Flight Plan, WJC Camp, Cechmanek, Coach of the 2000s
- bmeltzer

Hitch, even though Laviolette got us to a final.

Despite not agreeing with many of his decisions, especially in the past year, I went with Lava. Each coach certainly has things you love and hate about them. Overall Lava got us to the Cup Finals, has a relatively long tenure so far as Flyers coach, and has a likeable personality. I was in the "fire Lava camp" during following last season, but he still gets my vote.

Both teams allowed a myriad of scoring chances. The whole series was a shootout. Leighton didn't play well, but he was far from the only one. There were so many high level scoring chances for very talented players.
- PhillySportsGuy

Cant forget about Richards' and Carters' dissappearing act in the finals either, They went -11 and maybe had a couple pts.

Well, to be honest, I haven't been keeping up with the union over the past few years. And I know their main argument for A-Rod is the length. But I know that, in the past, the union has done everything in its power to keep players from being tested, basically because it was so rampant and they didn't want MLB finding out.

If the union is serious and does open its doors to testers and states that they want severe punishments like the one you stated, then I'd be okay with that.
- jmatchett383

As a fan, I would like to see two things occur.

1. Stricter punishments. 1st time - 1 year suspension without pay. 2nd time ban for life
2. Clauses in contracts that do not guarantee money if the player is caught doing steroids. If a player is caught, the team has 10 days to determine if they'd like to void the contract. If they do so, the player will be immediately released and the original team will owe no money to him from that point on. This is a pipe dream that will never happen, but it would end steroids in baseball. (Maybe not the minors though).

But if you don't have Leighton, you probably don't get past Boston...heck, your probably aren't in that do-or-die game vs NYR without him.
- jmatchett383

This is what annoys me the most about how people retrospectively look at Leighton.

They see Patrick Kane's OT goal, or look at his stats in the Finals and automatically throw him under the bus as being the reason why the team lost the Cup. (It also doesn't help that after his magical run, he got hurt in the off-season or early in the following year, and then had a terrible performance last season).

Even if Jeff Carter puts the puck in the net with 90 seconds left in Game 6--that doesn't change a thing. The Flyers would still have to win Game 7--in Chicago. Game 5 was there chance to win the Cup, to get a hold of the series and they blew it. The follow up game wasn't perfect either. They were a very tired bunch by the time they got to the Finals.

Tough call.

I picked Lava cause we've had more fun with him.

This is what annoys me the most about how people retrospectively look at Leighton.

They see Patrick Kane's OT goal, or look at his stats in the Finals and automatically throw him under the bus as being the reason why the team lost the Cup. (It also doesn't help that after his magical run, he got hurt in the off-season or early in the following year, and then had a terrible performance last season).

Even if Jeff Carter puts the puck in the net with 90 seconds left in Game 6--that doesn't change a thing. The Flyers would still have to win Game 7--in Chicago. Game 5 was there chance to win the Cup, to get a hold of the series and they blew it. The follow up game wasn't perfect either. They were a very tired bunch by the time they got to the Finals.
- KGBflyers10

So you're basically saying that Michael Leighton is to us what Kerry Fraser is to TML fans?

Cant forget about Richards' and Carters' dissappearing act in the finals either, They went -11 and maybe had a couple pts.
- GOA88

I always wanted Lavi to play Carter and Richards together more often. At the end of periods or after a pk. Similar to the way Bylsma loads up with Malkin and Crosby at times. He never did that, so when it came time to play Carter and Richards together in the finals, they had no chemistry.

They seem to have decent chemistry now in LA, but considering the skill both guys have, I wouldn't call their line dynamic. Hell, they aren't even the top line on their own team.

So you're basically saying that Michael Leighton is to us what Kerry Fraser is to TML fans?
- jmatchett383

Pretty much. And that will always be the case until the Flyers win another Stanley Cup. Only because the majority of this fanbase, not the intelligent ones like us, but just the average Flyers fans on the street, they think every single goaltender that sets up in the crease should be on par with Bernie Parent, or have the same fire as Ron Hextall. The majority of this fan base likes to live in the past.

How has he accomplished more than Hitchcock?
- Feanor

Got the team to the Cup Final. Only mishandled 1 goalie instead of 3. Isn't the real reason Patrick Sharp isn't here.

Pretty much. And that will always be the case until the Flyers win another Stanley Cup. Only because the majority of this fanbase, not the intelligent ones like us, but just the average Flyers fans on the street, they think every single goaltender that sets up in the crease should be on par with Bernie Parent, or have the same fire as Ron Hextall. The majority of this fan base likes to live in the past.
- KGBflyers10

I agree there's no guarantee they win Game 7. Same as TML; kill of the penalty and score in OT or win Game 7 and Gretzky's high stick is just a small foot note. That said, that goal will haunt me until they win a Cup. My real issue with Leighton was hiding his back injury until he got the contract.

I'm going to Stevens here. I liked Hitch, I like Lavi, but I don't think they can coach outside thier system. Stevens was a great X-O guy and really developed they key players for this team to turn around the team, Richards, Carter, Giroux, JVR, Coburn, Upshall, Lupul and Carle.

beat writers were always more favorably disposed towards hitch than a guy like lavi and that certainly colors their assessments. hitch was a quote machine.

i think lavi has done more w/ less overall. hitch also inserted himself personnel wise to the detriment of the teams he coached in certain cases.
- isaiah520

Agreed

Tough call.

I picked Lava cause we've had more fun with him.
- Coburns_Nose

Agreed.

Cup finals, historical comeback against Boston, jam, series vs. pitt and the Bylsma feud, typical montreal, gum chewing by a chiseled jaw, punching leino in the head...

Took the Flyers to the Cup Finals and an overtime goal away from forcing a Game 7 in Finals. Hitch got the Flyers within two goals of a Cup Final in a seven-game ECF, but not to the Finals. Both coaches have won a Stanley Cup elsewhere.

I personally would have voted for Hitchcock, because I think teams that play stronger defense generally match up more favorably to a wider array of opponents. But that's just a personal preference.
- bmeltzer

Thanks, Bill. I was comparing them solely on their Flyers' service. Lavi may have hiccuped this past year, but the team was much more competitive than Hitch's autumn 2006 disaster that cost him his job.

I always wanted Lavi to play Carter and Richards together more often. At the end of periods or after a pk. Similar to the way Bylsma loads up with Malkin and Crosby at times. He never did that, so when it came time to play Carter and Richards together in the finals, they had no chemistry.

They seem to have decent chemistry now in LA, but considering the skill both guys have, I wouldn't call their line dynamic. Hell, they aren't even the top line on their own team.
- PhillySportsGuy

Thats cause both players really shouldnt play as your top players, they arent elite. Guys like Giroux, Crosby, Toews, Getzlaf, Stamkos, yada yada yada should be your top line guys. Kopitar is better than Richards and Carter IMO.