what's confusing me is you're at once impugning stats for how they can be cherry-picked and then cherry picking stats to demonstrate your point:
1) goals scored
2) record when Tavares gets a point.

There's an irony to this as well.

Tavares has 112 goals in 291 games (0.38 goals per game). Hall has 65 goals in 171 games (0.38 goals per game).

Irony number 2.
Islanders record when Tavares scores: 20-7-2 (4-10-5 when he doesn't score)
Oilers' record when Hall scores: 18-8-4 (1-14-3 when he doesn't score)

Hall seems right there with Tavares by those measures
- Morris

You have no idea how much I love you

I prefer using actual hockey knowledge.
- Rysko81

Just curious how he did not use hockey knowledge.

who led their team into the playoffs??
- French-Connection

Tavares had one more year

who led their team into the playoffs??
- French-Connection

certainly not Bobrovsky, despite doing more for his team than any other player. Good on Tavares, but I find it hard to believe that Bob didn't get a Hart nod.

Hall --> +5 on a -9 team

Tavares --> -2 on an even team
- laughs2907

Are you seriously using plus minus? What a ridiculous stat. You realize that plus minus is a team stat, that can vary based on the matchups a players gets throughout a game right? Teams put their top lines against Tavares constantly, because their are no 3rd liners who can shut the guy down. Hall is a different story, as he's smaller, and less physically dominating. The difference being, teams CONSTANTLY put their shutdown pair and best lines against Tavares because theres no other option. Against the Oilers, teams aren't nearly as worried about head to head matchups, and more so just being reserved in their countering against a very SAME attack from all three lines. Stop the speed, stop the Oilers. With the Islanders, its "stop Tavares, and stop the Islanders". Very different. Learn the game bud.

I think it's time we introduce you to Laughs sister.


- OilDerek

Are you seriously using plus minus? What a ridiculous stat. You realize that plus minus is a team stat, that can vary based on the matchups a players gets throughout a game right? Teams put their top lines against Tavares constantly, because their are no 3rd liners who can shut the guy down. Hall is a different story, as he's smaller, and less physically dominating. The difference being, teams CONSTANTLY put their shutdown pair and best lines against Tavares because theres no other option. Against the Oilers, teams aren't nearly as worried about head to head matchups, and more so just being reserved in their countering against a very SAME attack from all three lines. Stop the speed, stop the Oilers. With the Islanders, its "stop Tavares, and stop the Islanders". Very different. Learn the game bud.
- Rysko81

Hall is bigger and faster then Tavares your point is invalid

Play the game, know the game, understand what one does to make a difference in the game, and you can dissect the difference between a superstar, and somebody who is not quite there yet. All i see in here are stats, when we are comparing players who play with completely different players at completely different skill levels (Tavares plays with far less skill surrounding him), and one that plays in a counter attack system (Tavares+the Islanders), while the others team players a more fast paced, stretch the ice attack (Hall+the Oilers). That is the understanding that your statistics don't take into account. It is when you put them both on the same team, like team Canada, where a player like Tavares can contribute and do whatever his coach asks, where you notice the true difference in these players. You see that Tavares does things with and without the puck, that make him such a constant threat. Hall has the intangibles to become a player like Tavares, he's fast, skilled and he has heart, but Tavares is far beyond just those assets. He's one of, if not the smartest player in the league. With and WITHOUT the puck. He can be a down right unstoppable force, something Hall has not proven he can be yet.
-
EDIT: Teams have a MUCH harder team shutting Tavares down then Hall at this point, and seriously its not even close.
- Rysko81

This is so much bullpoop. It is amazing you could type it through the cloud of flies buzzing around your head.

Are you seriously using plus minus? What a ridiculous stat. You realize that plus minus is a team stat, that can vary based on the matchups a players gets throughout a game right? Teams put their top lines against Tavares constantly, because their are no 3rd liners who can shut the guy down. Hall is a different story, as he's smaller, and less physically dominating. The difference being, teams CONSTANTLY put their shutdown pair and best lines against Tavares because theres no other option. Against the Oilers, teams aren't nearly as worried about head to head matchups, and more so just being reserved in their countering against a very SAME attack from all three lines. Stop the speed, stop the Oilers. With the Islanders, its "stop Tavares, and stop the Islanders". Very different. Learn the game bud.
- Rysko81

Which is why I mentioned it... To prove a point. You realize that making it to the playoffs is a team achievement, right? Or does Colin Fraser > Stamkos in your world?

what's confusing me is you're at once impugning stats for how they can be cherry-picked and then cherry picking stats to demonstrate your point:
1) goals scored
2) record when Tavares gets a point.

There's an irony to this as well.

Tavares has 112 goals in 291 games (0.38 goals per game). Hall has 65 goals in 171 games (0.38 goals per game).

Irony number 2.
Islanders record when Tavares scores: 20-7-2 (4-10-5 when he doesn't score)
Oilers' record when Hall scores: 18-8-4 (1-14-3 when he doesn't score)

Hall seems right there with Tavares by those measures
- Morris

Ok now tell me last years numbers bud, because we're talking about last year. The year where Tavares had 12 more goals and became a superstar.

Which is why I mentioned it... To prove a point. You realize that making it to the playoffs is a team achievement, right?
- laughs2907

Yeah, one that the Islanders would've had no business making without their best player. Hall isn't even your teams best player and your not a playoff team LOL.

Ok now tell me last years numbers bud, because we're talking about last year. The year where Tavares had 12 more goals and became a superstar.
- Rysko81

OMG Morris, he called you "bud"... I think he wants to be your friend

Are you seriously using plus minus? What a ridiculous stat. You realize that plus minus is a team stat, that can vary based on the matchups a players gets throughout a game right? Teams put their top lines against Tavares constantly, because their are no 3rd liners who can shut the guy down. Hall is a different story, as he's smaller, and less physically dominating. The difference being, teams CONSTANTLY put their shutdown pair and best lines against Tavares because theres no other option. Against the Oilers, teams aren't nearly as worried about head to head matchups, and more so just being reserved in their countering against a very SAME attack from all three lines. Stop the speed, stop the Oilers. With the Islanders, its "stop Tavares, and stop the Islanders". Very different. Learn the game bud.
- Rysko81

JT: 6'0" 199#
TH: 6'1" 195#

You have have no idea do you?

Yeah, one that the Islanders would've had no business making without their best player. Hall isn't even your teams best player and your not a playoff team LOL.
- Rysko81

Tavares made the playoffs in year 4... Hall will be entering year 4 this upcoming season.

Who is the Oilers best player?

Ok now tell me last years numbers bud, because we're talking about last year. The year where Tavares had 12 more goals and became a superstar.
- Rysko81

You're right... why use all of the available stats, when we could use the one year that even remotely supports your premise.

Ok now tell me last years numbers bud, because we're talking about last year. The year where Tavares had 12 more goals and became a superstar.
- Rysko81

yet 2 less points....

JT: 6'0" 199#
TH: 6'1" 195#

You have have no idea do you?
- OilHorse

Tavares is wayyyyyyyyy more physically dominating then Hall. Hall can't stay on his feet. Enjoy his years while you can because he's not going to last long.

Tavares made the playoffs in year 4... Hall will be entering year 4 this upcoming season.

Who is the Oilers best player?
- laughs2907

Eberle.

Ok now tell me last years numbers bud, because we're talking about last year. The year where Tavares had 12 more goals and became a superstar.
- Rysko81

I thought we were talking about right now. Forgive me for assuming a conversation about who's better/in the same class right now was talking about right now. I guess we better park the talk about Tavares' Hart nomination and taking the team to the playoffs right?

Tavares had 4 more goals then Hall in 2011-2012, in 21 more games played.

yet 2 less points....
- OilHorse

Supporting cast.

The worst part is that Laughs didnt say JT is worse than Hall, just that Hall is in the same class.

Tavares is wayyyyyyyyy more physically dominating then Hall. Hall can't stay on his feet. Enjoy his years while you can because he's not going to last long.
- Rysko81

Are you sure you're not a Canucks fan?

I worry a lot about the clarkson signing, it screams RA Richardey/Josh Johnson to me. I hope I'm wrong. Other than that, I like the goalie move, gives us two goalies I like. Though this Kadri/Franson thing is getting on my nerves.
- mykokes

Yeah, I like the goalie thing as well...

I have to admit, I think Kadri is going to have one great career ahead of him. I get the feeling that's going to be considered a steal at #7

Supporting cast.
- Rysko81

bullpoop...JT obviously had the better team. So he had the better cast around him

The worst part is that Laughs didnt say JT is worse than Hall, just that Hall is in the same class.
- OilHorse

I know... isn't this fun?