Or, they are treating him and Franson poorly because they messed up their cap. I figure if the cap space was there they would both be locked up long term. Phil had the same label coming out of Boston - the attitude. Kadri at 4 - 5 million scoring 60 points or more a season is not far fetched at all. In Fransons case its totally the cap space, the guy is solid but they can't sign him. All they had to do was compliance Liles and Grabs and regular buyout Komi and they'de all be there right now.
- aminnes

Kadri and Franson will both get around 4AAV and once they drop Liles all is well again in Leafs world. Its really not as bad as you guys make it sound...

a terrible way?

its business... there isnt no kissy kissy love poop.. you negotiate to get the best possible deal for your side.

or you'd get replaced.

nobody just hands players money because they want it.. and hell.. if you have the leverage and can get him for cheaper.. its your JOB to do just that
- Dozzer

Hence these players holding out. I'm not sure the job of the GM is simply to squeeze guys either, the point is to win, and not having these guys playing won't help them win thats for sure. And how you treat guys does affect the team. Replacing a 23 year old potential first line guy is not easy and would likely cost as much or more than he's asking. I can't believe this was all part of the plan, if they had the dough, they'de be signed IMO.

Wrong, we don't even have that money
- Mapleleafs_91

Yes we do. We has 7 mil without batting an eye


4.9+ holzer smith 1.2 + liles.9=7mil

not that we know what Franson is asking for, but assuming it's the going rate for a big top-4 26 yo dman who can put up 40-50 points, i cannot imagine what he is thinking right now.
- Gary_B.

If he sees himself this way at this point he's delusional. He literally didn't even win a starting job until this past year.

Someone said he should get paid because he's 26. Well why didn't he win a starter's job before he was in his mid-20's? He's an RFA...he has almost no rights. Same with Kadri.

These guys need to learn what their union brothers negotiated for, and why. They're not bigger than the CBA. Let them sit.

no, that's not business. you're cut-throat with competitors, but smart businesspeople treat their employees fairly. it's not a case of Franson expecting the Leafs to hand him money, it's about an expectation that he gets paid on par with his comparable peers.
- Gary_B.

if the world operated the way you think it did no unions would ever go on strike

its business... there is no room for compassion in business.

also, when a player is unsigned he isnt technically their employee

agents know this, players know it, GMs know it, and owners know it.. some fans think its about being fair.. no.. its really not.. its about winning the negotiation and what each side is willing to sacrifice to gain the advantage.. someone eventually blinks and a deal gets struck

its just how it works

no, that's not business. you're cut-throat with competitors, but smart businesspeople treat their employees fairly. it's not a case of Franson expecting the Leafs to hand him money, it's about an expectation that he gets paid on par with his comparable peers.
- Gary_B.

Thank you.

Yes we do. We has 7 mil without batting an eye


4.9+ holzer smith 1.2 + liles.9=7mil
- burn

You are correct, but id rather send down ranger than liles. Unless ranger surprises during camp, is the only way he gets the job over liles

What about liles? you want to send him down to the marlies? over ranger? Id rather have liles in lineup than a guy who hasnt played in the nhl since forever
- Mapleleafs_91

Yes id rather and liles down. Carlyle obviously doesn't want to use him.

Hence these players holding out. I'm not sure the job of the GM is simply to squeeze guys either, the point is to win, and not having these guys playing won't help them win thats for sure. And how you treat guys does affect the team. Replacing a 23 year old potential first line guy is not easy and would likely cost as much or more than he's asking. I can't believe this was all part of the plan, if they had the dough, they'de be signed IMO.
- aminnes

who says they are holding out?

they dont have to report yet.. they arent holding out at all.

This. Running an NHL team is a buiness people.
- Colin Dambrauskas

but what you're failing to realize is that it's a joint-venture and it's as much a business for the players as it is for the teams.

If he sees himself this way at this point he's delusional. He literally didn't even win a starting job until this past year.

Someone said he should get paid because he's 26. Well why didn't he win a starter's job before he was in his mid-20's? He's an RFA...he has almost no rights.
Same with Kadri.

These guys need to learn what their union brothers negotiated for, and why. They're not bigger than the CBA. Let them sit.
- djamon

Yes id rather and liles down. Carlyle obviously doesn't want to use him.
- burn

All depends how ranger does at camp. Carlyle is going to have no choice but to use him Liles didnt even play that bad

Yes id rather and liles down. Carlyle obviously doesn't want to use him.
- burn

what does sending liles down accomplish? it makes for 900K in cap space and thats about it

if you play him up at the NHL level you at least have a chance of moving him

Wrong, we don't even have that money
- Mapleleafs_91

We could have easily.

If he sees himself this way at this point he's delusional. He literally didn't even win a starting job until this past year.

Someone said he should get paid because he's 26. Well why didn't he win a starter's job before he was in his mid-20's? He's an RFA...he has almost no rights.
Same with Kadri.

These guys need to learn what their union brothers negotiated for, and why. They're not bigger than the CBA. Let them sit.
- djamon

yup.. its a negotiation.. some people are getting too riled up about it if you ask me

how can people say this.

How much $$ do you think the 5 out door games will bring in? 1M/game? that only an extra 5 m added. Were is all the other revenue coming from? ticket price going up, but that just a small amount.

I don't think the caps will go up that high for the 2014-15 season.
- zazzle

I think it's 6 games, and they're projecting a LOT more than 5m extra for that. Closer to 500m.

You are correct, but id rather send down ranger than liles. Unless ranger surprises during camp, is the only way he gets the job over liles
- Mapleleafs_91

I'm not sure ranger has to surprise anyone. I think his game fits more with what Carlyle wants, thus I think he's ahead on the depth chart.

what does sending liles down accomplish? it makes for 900K in cap space and thats about it

if you play him up at the NHL level you at least have a chance of moving him
- Dozzer

Liles is better than ranger and more accomplished than ranger by a long shot. I dont care how good he did in the AHL (cough kostka), he hasnt played in the nhl in forever. Hes not a prospect, so why the big fuss? This guy is not long term in our books. And what are they battling for? A 3rd pairing spot? Not a big deal if liles plays on the 3rd pairing with say a guy like fraser.

Gunner Phaneuf

Gardiner Franson

Fraser Liles

I'm not sure ranger has to surprise anyone. I think his game fits more with what Carlyle wants, thus I think he's ahead on the depth chart.
- burn

I wouldnt say that since he hasnt played in the nhl in forever, and alot of coaches would disagree with this statement

what does sending liles down accomplish? it makes for 900K in cap space and thats about it

if you play him up at the NHL level you at least have a chance of moving him
- Dozzer

What does it accomplish? Making room on the roster and cap, and moving a player not seemingly in favour of the coach.

how can people say this.

How much $$ do you think the 5 out door games will bring in? 1M/game? that only an extra 5 m added. Were is all the other revenue coming from? ticket price going up, but that just a small amount.

I don't think the caps will go up that high for the 2014-15 season.
- zazzle

80 Million by 2018 is rumour already.

I wouldnt say that since he hasnt played in the nhl in forever, and alot of coaches would disagree with this statement
- Mapleleafs_91

Source?

All depends how ranger does at camp. Carlyle is going to have no choice but to use him Liles didnt even play that bad
- Mapleleafs_91

They would both have to pass through waivers to be sent down. Ranger gets claimed...100%. Liles...not so much. That's why they send down Liles if necessary.

I wouldnt say that since he hasnt played in the nhl in forever, and alot of coaches would disagree with this statement
- Mapleleafs_91

A lot of coaches? Like who? Probably not the one running our team.

but what you're failing to realize is that it's a joint-venture and it's as much a business for the players as it is for the teams.
- Gary_B.

Well, the Leafs are your employer and they must look out for their organization needs as much as you need to look out for your own. They feel your current value to the team is X dollars and are willing to pay you for your services for X years...if you feel otherwise you make your case.

It goes back and forth but the decision is ultimately up to the boss who has a certain amount of money to extend to the employee who feels they deserve a big raise. If they cannot agree on the dollar term, than that employee can sit and watch everyone else work happily together.

Yes, its in the employers best interest to keep their employees happy, but they cannot be throwing away valuable cap dollars. The player needs to understand where they sit in their career and if they are good with discussions now, they will likely be rewarded down the road for it.