i'd rather put conacher on that wing, keep zibby at center, trade smith

that being said, if we're keeping all of our centers......i'm moving pageau. having zibby at center will probably be best for this team long term. if it comes down to moving him or JGP, i'm putting pageau on the wing.
- sensarmy_11

I agree with moving Pageau over Zibanejad to wing (if 93 isn't happy with playing wing). Line combos?

I agree with moving Pageau over Zibanejad to wing (if 93 isn't happy with playing wing). Line combos?
- AlfieisKing

michalek - spezza - macarthur
conacher - turris - ryan
pageau - zibby - condra
greening - smith - neil

(can switch ryan and macarthur if you want to load up on one line)

i think the important thing here is that he clearly CAN BE EFFECTIVE with spezza, and if last year is any indication, he ISN'T SO MUCH with any of our other centers. so keep the big line together
- sensarmy_11

Fixed.

And agreed, on the last point.... For now.

Just saying I would consider moving Michalek off Spezza's line before I moved Ryan.

I agree. I think it's fair to balance the lines. How do you guys like this:

Michalek-Spezza-MacArthur
Zibanejad-Turris-Ryan
- AlfieisKing

I wouldn't mind it to start out, though Travis was suggesting that MacLean really likes the 'tandem' of Turris and MacArthur at this point in time...

I wouldn't mind it to start out, though Travis was suggesting that MacLean really likes the 'tandem' of Turris and MacArthur at this point in time...
- Mr_Clean

Conacher played well with Zibanejad and Silfverberg last year.


Michalek-Spezza-Ryan
MacArthur-Turris-Pageau
Conacher-Zibanejad-Condra
Greening-Smith-Neil

How many Goals did Michalek score that season that were Assisted by Spezza? not simply 'with Spezza on ice'? How many goals did Michalek get -with spezza on ice - that spezza did not hold an assist? How many Unnassisted Goals did he score (regardless who's on ice)? How many empty netters? How many did Spezza score that were assisted by Michalek? How many first assists did each player get on each others goals? What is Michalek's ES shooting% while Spezza is on the ice?What is Spezza's ES Shooting % while Michalek is on ice? What is Michalek's Assists/game when playing with Spezza? Without Spezza?

Numbers? There's lots of numbers that suggest lots of things. You want to quantify "chemistry" you're going to need to get a lot more in depth than "Who was on the ice when this other guy scored" That kind of logic is easily as fallible as +/-

But my opinions, I get those from watching the games
- conor_smythe

You asserted Michalek scored more goals with Foligno than with Spezza. He didn't. It wasn't close. This ramble about watching the games and chemistry is irrelevant. I certainly didn't argue either of those two points.

I don't know if Michalek/Spezza have chemistry or not, but it took me about three seconds to find out what you said -- goal-scoring with various linemates -- was incorrect. And that really was the crux of the point you were initially making, I think.

You asserted Michalek scored more goals with Foligno than with Spezza. He didn't. It wasn't close. This ramble about watching the games and chemistry is irrelevant. I certainly didn't argue either of those two points.

I don't know if Michalek/Spezza have chemistry or not, but it took me about three seconds to find out what you said -- goal-scoring with various linemates -- was incorrect. And that really was the crux of the point you were initially making, I think.
- Travis Yost

Travis which players have the most chemistry? (forwards)

Travis which players have the most chemistry? (forwards)
- AlfieisKing

It depends on how you define chemistry. Are we talking goal-scoring? Are we talking goal-differential? Are we talking shot-attempt / possession differential?

Conacher played well with Zibanejad and Silfverberg last year.


Michalek-Spezza-Ryan
MacArthur-Turris-Pageau
Conacher-Zibanejad-Condra
Greening-Smith-Neil
- AlfieisKing

Pageau was 82% in the face off circle against the Leafs.

I think it is fairly straight forward, both Zibanejad and Pageau play center, both get power play time and both kill penalties. Spezza gets 17 minutes of playing time, Turris gets 15 and Zibanejad and Pageau get 14 minutes each.

If you can get a 2nd round pick for Zach Smith, I think you need to think about it.

Pageau was 82% in the face off circle against the Leafs.

I think it is fairly straight forward, both Zibanejad and Pageau play center, both get power play time and both kill penalties. Spezza gets 17 minutes of playing time, Turris gets 15 and Zibanejad and Pageau get 14 minutes each.

f Iyou can get a 2nd round pick for Zach Smith, I think you need to think about it.
- spatso

Many see him as the odd man out including me ,but if we were to move him our top9 gets even more softer than it is right now .

We would need to make a package trade with him included to bring back some sandpaper that can play a reg shift on the wing.This would free up the space down the middle while keeping what limited toughness we have intact up front

You asserted Michalek scored more goals with Foligno than with Spezza. He didn't. It wasn't close. This ramble about watching the games and chemistry is irrelevant. I certainly didn't argue either of those two points.

I don't know if Michalek/Spezza have chemistry or not, but it took me about three seconds to find out what you said -- goal-scoring with various linemates -- was incorrect. And that really was the crux of the point you were initially making, I think.
- Travis Yost

He would be a pretty good guy to have riding shotgun with Pageau right now ,just to keep other teams honest

Many see him as the odd man out including me ,but if we were to move him our top9 gets even more softer than it is right now .

We would need to make a package trade with him included to bring back some sandpaper that can play a reg shift on the wing.This would free up the space down the middle while keeping what limited toughness we have intact up front
- top shelf 15

Probably the ideal scenario, maybe see if we can get Columbus to bite for Cam Atkinson, or else maybe we move out Smith for a pick and see if Mark Stone on the wing can work out that way, big enough to punish guys but skilled enough to score.

I posted a comment on the leafs thread about Kessel's cowardly stick swinging and spear in the game last night about 10 minutes ago. The comment posted and was immediately removed and my comment button showed up as locked. What a bunch of complete losers running that thread.

For the record, the comment was "Kessel is a big pu55y. What a cowardly stick swinging incident"....

I hope he gets suspended. Oh, and I am laughing my ass off about Clarkson. This mook has in the past few games been: 1. The third man in in a fight and 2. Come off the bench to fight. That idiot was signed for what, 8 years? He is going to be a boon to every team's power play unit...what a dummy. No wonder N.J. didn't want him back, he's a liability.

Probably the ideal scenario, maybe see if we can get Columbus to bite for Cam Atkinson, or else maybe we move out Smith for a pick and see if Mark Stone on the wing can work out that way, big enough to punish guys but skilled enough to score.
- TommyDeVito

I still think ottawa has one more move to make ,if Weircoch can tie down the second pairing pmd spot .It might make including a good prospect pmd in Ceci available, to move in a package to get us what we need up front

Based on their WOWY numbers it doesn't seem Michalek and Spezza ever had any chemistry. Spezza's on the ice goals for per 20 min of 5v5 were much worse with Michalek then without him in 11-12 and 09-10. In 10-11 they were slightly better (smaller sample size together?), however Michalek's offensive numbers away from Spezza were awful.

Anyway to say linemates have chemistry together would imply atleast that they score more goals together then apart which is generally not the case with these two. In fact in 11-12 they both performed better away from each other offensively and defensively 5v5. With regards to corsi, spezza's numbers are generally unchanged with or without Michalek.

Based on their WOWY numbers it doesn't seem Michalek and Spezza ever had any chemistry. Spezza's on the ice goals for per 20 min of 5v5 were much worse with Michalek then without him in 11-12 and 09-10. In 10-11 they were slightly better (smaller sample size together?), however Michalek's offensive numbers away from Spezza were awful.

Anyway to say linemates have chemistry together would imply atleast that they score more goals together then apart which is generally not the case with these two. In fact in 11-12 they both performed better away from each other offensively and defensively 5v5. With regards to corsi, spezza's numbers are generally unchanged with or without Michalek.
- Dr.Strangelove

To be honest ,i think michalek scoring 35 goals had more to do with the type of ice time he received.He is a good player ,but he isnt a top line player .he is far too streaky with little to no creativity.

Based on their WOWY numbers it doesn't seem Michalek and Spezza ever had any chemistry. Spezza's on the ice goals for per 20 min of 5v5 were much worse with Michalek then without him in 11-12 and 09-10. In 10-11 they were slightly better (smaller sample size together?), however Michalek's offensive numbers away from Spezza were awful.

Anyway to say linemates have chemistry together would imply atleast that they score more goals together then apart which is generally not the case with these two. In fact in 11-12 they both performed better away from each other offensively and defensively 5v5. With regards to corsi, spezza's numbers are generally unchanged with or without Michalek.
- Dr.Strangelove

This is very interesting stuff. This would convince me to try 9MM on L2 and L3 a little more and see if he can have chemistry with 93 or 44. His salary shouldn't matter, if more goals are scored. Also opens up top line for someone else to spend time on 19's left side.

On another note, is capgeek's depth chart correct? It lists 14 LW and 6 RW. If these are the players preferred/natural positions, wouldn't it be handicapping the team a little? Is Bobby a LW? If so, maybe he'd work better there and put MacArthur up on 1RW?

Based on their WOWY numbers it doesn't seem Michalek and Spezza ever had any chemistry. Spezza's on the ice goals for per 20 min of 5v5 were much worse with Michalek then without him in 11-12 and 09-10. In 10-11 they were slightly better (smaller sample size together?), however Michalek's offensive numbers away from Spezza were awful.

Anyway to say linemates have chemistry together would imply atleast that they score more goals together then apart which is generally not the case with these two. In fact in 11-12 they both performed better away from each other offensively and defensively 5v5. With regards to corsi, spezza's numbers are generally unchanged with or without Michalek.
- Dr.Strangelove

That's what I was getting at... Thanks for the statistical substantiation!

Also, as I don't know how to parse the numbers, who did KT have the most success with last year, besides Alfie?

That's what I was getting at... Thanks for the statistical substantiation!
- Mr_Clean

Michalek on the second line wouldnt be a bad idea

I posted a comment on the leafs thread about Kessel's cowardly stick swinging and spear in the game last night about 10 minutes ago. The comment posted and was immediately removed and my comment button showed up as locked. What a bunch of complete losers running that thread.

For the record, the comment was "Kessel is a big pu55y. What a cowardly stick swinging incident"....

I hope he gets suspended. Oh, and I am laughing my ass off about Clarkson. This mook has in the past few games been: 1. The third man in in a fight and 2. Come off the bench to fight. That idiot was signed for what, 8 years? He is going to be a boon to every team's power play unit...what a dummy. No wonder N.J. didn't want him back, he's a liability.
- jaz258

I think it's a little funny clarkson will end up missing his first ten games as a leaf.

That being said, I put way more blame on Scott. What a goon. Jumping a guy who has no interest in fighting. I really don't like kessel swinging his stick like that, and I think he should be suspended for a game or 2. But really, way more blame on Scott. If he pulled that crap on Ryan or Spezza we'd be furious.

Michalek + Spezza = No Chemistry


If Maclean's plan is to keep them as an inseparable pair, he's barking up the wrong tree

Michalek scored more goals with Foligno as his Centreman than he did with Spezza
- conor_smythe

What is your information based on?

I think it's a little funny clarkson will end up missing his first ten games as a leaf.

That being said, I put way more blame on Scott. What a goon. Jumping a guy who has no interest in fighting. I really don't like kessel swinging his stick like that, and I think he should be suspended for a game or 2. But really, way more blame on Scott. If he pulled that crap on Ryan or Spezza we'd be furious.
- david22

Him punching JGP after scuffle with kadri , makes him look like an easy target to draw penalities from

What is your information based on?
- monkhouse

ignorance and lack of any semblance of hockey knowledge