Yep. And trading a player for less than his value because you don't have enough cap room isn't a problem, it's just a series of decision and choices.

Just like it wasn't a problem when my neighbor banged the other neighbor's wife. It's no problem that he lives in a poop apartment and has to give 70% of his check to his ex-wife...no problem at all.
- Jsaquella

It is a series of decisions and choices. Now if you had no other choice then to make that trade, and were forced into it. With no other possible way out of it. Then you made a mistake and it's a case of mismanagement, that cost you. Incompetence is what led to getting less value. Not making a choice and trading an asset that was deemed expendable, because the end result of it all, is that you're better off after making the deal, then were before it.

it infuriates me. they just can't make the best move possible for the team and the player in question..not deciding to keep a guy based on how that effects his ELC, and worrying that when a guy hits his (frank)ing performance bonus - it has ramifications for future cap space. it's a never ending moving target. this isn't about the flyers. it's about the league and the game. it's destroyed it in my opinion.
- hammarby31

I'm with you there. But it's a fact of life, and it's not going away.

Considering he was late in tendering offer sheets to several key RFAs, driving up their salary cap hits heading into the off season after the Cup yeah, he (frank)ing mismanaged the cap situation, rather badly
- Jsaquella

He was going to have to move those players regardless. It wasn't Cap mismanagement. It was a simple case of having lots of quality players, and not being able to afford them all.

In the same way that if all of the Flyers young players take off and reach their potential. At some point, they're not going to be able to afford them all.

So are we done arguing about the cap problems/issue whatever finally?

Yes, your penis is bigger than his penis, and you know more than he does, and he's wrong and you're right and blah blah blah let's all go have some cake!
- jmatchett383

If everyone would simply ignore the incessant, constant Richard waiving arguing of semantics it would go away.

He was going to have to move those players regardless. It wasn't Cap mismanagement. It was a simple case of having lots of quality players, and not being able to afford them all.

In the same way that if all of the Flyers young players take off and reach their potential. At some point, they're not going to be able to afford them all.
- MJL

Yes, screwing up the offer sheets didn't cause Tallon any trouble at all. Because he got fired and Stan Bowman had to handle the aftermath. Blowing the offer sheets made the cap situation worse, because guys making $3mm should have been making half that much

If everyone would simply ignore the incessant, constant Richard waiving arguing of semantics it would go away.
- PLindbergh31

I sometimes imagine that the Mortal Combat music comes on and "FINISH HIM" is all that they see.

If everyone would simply ignore the incessant, constant Richard waiving arguing of semantics it would go away.
- PLindbergh31

But mine's so big

I sometimes imagine that the Mortal Combat music comes on and "FINISH HIM" is all that they see.
- FlyersGrace

"FRIENDSHIP!"

Of those 12, with the exception of G, Coots (8th overall selection), JVR (2nd overall selection), and Sbisa, who has made any impact whatsoever?
- 77rams

I think the Flyers generally do a good job drafting in the first round. After round 1, players become far less of a certainty. I'm sure other franchises have done a much better job than Philadelphia has drafting in rounds 2 and later.

I think a major issue of why the Flyers have a lack of draft picks is due to the constant injury situation year after year. Holmgren is often finding himself trying to trade for players to fill holes caused by injury.

But mine's so big
- jmatchett383

PROVE IT

It is a series of decisions and choices. Now if you had no other choice then to make that trade, and were forced into it. With no other possible way out of it. Then you made a mistake and it's a case of mismanagement, that cost you. Incompetence is what led to getting less value. Not making a choice and trading an asset that was deemed expendable, because the end result of it all, is that you're better off after making the deal, then were before it.
- MJL

Yes it's a series of decisions...poor decisions lead to problems, and poor decisions by a manager tend to be called "mismanagement"

Yep. And trading a player for less than his value because you don't have enough cap room isn't a problem, it's just a series of decision and choices.

Just like it wasn't a problem when my neighbor banged the other neighbor's wife. It's no problem that he lives in a poop apartment and has to give 70% of his check to his ex-wife...no problem at all.
- Jsaquella

is she hot? and did she get divorced?

PROVE IT
- FlyersGrace

Don't write checks your ass can't cash.
I'm not sure that fits here.
"It's just been revoked!"

If everyone would simply ignore the incessant, constant Richard waiving arguing of semantics it would go away.
- PLindbergh31

Are you saying you're an anti-semanticsite

But mine's so big
- jmatchett383

Yes it's a series of decisions...poor decisions lead to problems, and poor decisions by a manager tend to be called "mismanagement"
- Jsaquella

So wait...are you saying my old boss' business model of relying solely on government contracts and hoping that he'd never have a year where didn't get one is considered mismanagement?

Yes, screwing up the offer sheets didn't cause Tallon any trouble at all. Because he got fired and Stan Bowman had to handle the aftermath. Blowing the offer sheets made the cap situation worse, because guys making $3mm should have been making half that much
- Jsaquella

You seem to have a better memory of the situation then I do. But I was wrong about one thing. Tallon was demoted from GM in 7/09. So Bowman was the GM for the 2010 Cup Season.

PROVE IT
- FlyersGrace

Yes it's a series of decisions...poor decisions lead to problems, and poor decisions by a manager tend to be called "mismanagement"
- Jsaquella

The discussion is a specific kind of mismanagement. Specificallly Cap mismanagement. You can criticize the trade as a bad trade. I won't argue that. But the point is that Cap mismanagement did not force the trade. We're going around in circles.

You seem to have a better memory of the situation then I do. But I was wrong about one thing. Tallon was demoted from GM in 7/09. So Bowman was the GM for the 2010 Cup Season.
- MJL

Bowman was the GM, but the majority of the team (if not the entire team) was built by Tallon. But yes, Tallon was demoted before the start of the 09/10 season because he forgot to submit qualifying offers.

- PLindbergh31

The discussion is a specific kind of mismanagement. Specificallly Cap mismanagement. You can criticize the trade as a bad trade. I won't argue that. But the point is that Cap mismanagement did not force the trade. We're going around in circles.
- MJL

So would you say that the Flyers felt that Carcillo was better than Upshall and a pick and that is why they made the trade?

Bowman was the GM, but the majority of the team (if not the entire team) was built by Tallon. But yes, Tallon was demoted before the start of the 09/10 season because he forgot to submit qualifying offers.
- jmatchett383

That is true.

I don't think the FLyers have a cap problem this year at all. In fact I see them starting the season right on the cap limit by design. Then they can invoke Pronger's $4.9 LTIR and get almost the full amount. Mez or Grossman will then be dealt early in the season for pick(s). Flyers will have well over $5 million to play with at that point.

So would you say that the Flyers felt that Carcillo was better than Upshall and a pick and that is why they made the trade?
- jmatchett383

No, I'm saying that the end result of having Giroux and Carcillo in the lineup was better then keeping Upshall and the 2nd round pick. And not having Giroux in the lineup.