I guess I'm tired from hearing from all the WIP fans that just happened to stop by the site today. Not that "Allin" is one of them, but this entire feeling like the team sux, crappy defense, no scoring, bad goaltending..... blah blah blah. Its Negadelphia jumping on the woe's of this team. Can't crap on the Eagles or Phillies right now, so lets Crap on the Flyers....

The team doesn't suck. It might have been mis-managed. It might have lost its compete.... But it doesn't suck. If you really think it sucks then go away. Go watch the Blackhawks, or Penguins. Then when we are a playoff team again.. be it this yaer or next, then you can come back. We are used to it.

I am fully confident that this team can compete under a new system.
- youarewrong

First, just because you think a team sucks, doesn't mean you won't root for them. An example would be this year's Sixers. I am a Sixers' fan, but they will suck big time.

Second, I don't think he's saying they suck. I think the point is the team is flawed. The defenseman lack mobility, puck handling and passing as a whole.

I believe some of this can be rectified with a change in system allowing players to have easier outlets to move the puck. I also think the team (especially the forwards) lack confidence. You'd be amazed what a change in confidence can do for a young team.

Was it an injury? I have no idea when it happened exactly. He was one of my favourite young guys on the team, now I cringe a little. Of course most of the D makes me cringe a little.
- mayorofangrytown

This might sound crazy, but I think it's the visor. I've player with a visor, a full cage, and nothing (briefly). It's a world of difference in vision. That's all i can think of.

First, just because you think a team sucks, doesn't mean you won't root for them. An example would be this year's Sixers. I am a Sixers' fan, but they will suck big time.

Second, I don't think he's saying they suck. I think the point is the team is flawed. The defenseman lack mobility, puck handling and passing as a whole.

I believe some of this can be rectified with a change in system allowing players to have easier outlets to move the puck. I also think the team (especially the forwards) lack confidence. You'd be amazed what a change in confidence can do for a young team.
- PhillySportsGuy

Word on the street is that Peter had a problem following the coach' "Dry Island" campaign and there were locker room issues that got him moved out.

I want to focus in on this "THE WORST CAMP IN 40 YEARS". I guess that is why they tried to bring Cleary in. Not sure what about this camp made it the worst. Are players pissed they brough in Vinny? Schenn, Voracek or Couts feel threatened? Is it because leadership wasnt there. Giroux was barely there because of the injury.... was it because they weren't in the FSZ?

Everyone is quick to hop on Mez when I have watched him he seems not nearly as bad as some of the others, especially Grossman, take away his shot blocking the man is horrible with the puck.

That was a momentary thing, though. We all know how Canada gets during the WJC's, especially fueled by Pierre McGuire's inability to keep it in his pants when something wonderful happens on the ice.

I was never led to believe that Schenn was a potential 90-100 pt guy.... I can understand the disappointment if you (and others) were, though.
- Tomahawk

It wasn't just a media thing. Compare his WJC to Tavares from the year before. He blew him away. That was tactile. You could see it. He was a dominant player.

When we traded for him I thought maybe he was going to be slow to adjust to the NHL game but he looks like a shadow of the player I saw in that tournament. It's difficult to understand. At first I thought it was a confidence thing, now I'm not sure he's physically able to compete at that level (above being a decent NHL Pro).

I'm hoping he has a break out season before the team decides he's expendable.

Has Gus really shown us anything that would indicate that he would be better than Meszaros or Coburn on even his very best day?

Please don't cite the WC's...
- Tomahawk

He showed enough late last season to show me he could have a future here. Meszaros doesn't given his injury history and cap hit. I can only think they're playing him so much to build up his trade value. Couturier must feel great watching him flounder on the 2nd PP unit.

I want to focus in on this "THE WORST CAMP IN 40 YEARS". I guess that is why they tried to bring Cleary in. Not sure what about this camp made it the worst. Are players pissed they brough in Vinny? Schenn, Voracek or Couts feel threatened? Is it because leadership wasnt there. Giroux was barely there because of the injury.... was it because they weren't in the FSZ?
- youarewrong

I, also, would like more information on this training camp nonsense.

Like, how was it so bad? Were guys getting hammered every night? Were they not practicing well? What was it that made it the worst camp?

Some great Snider quotes after the presser..

“I thought our training camp, quite frankly, was one of the worst training camps I had ever seen,” club chairman Ed Snider said.

“Not talking about wins or losses. There was nothing exciting. Nobody shined. Nobody looked good. I couldn’t point to one thing as a positive and I was personally worried. Unfortunately, my worries were realized in the first three games.”

“Unfortunately, in the business we’re in, the only way to find out [about the players] is to make a change,” Snider said. “You can’t get rid of all the players. This is why coaches lose their jobs and sometimes lose them because of the players, but we don’t know that until we make a change. Sometimes we’re right and sometimes we’re wrong. We think our players are better than they’ve looked.”

So, someone asked Snider, you fire the coach because you can’t get rid of the players?

“Right,” Snider replied. “You show me a way to do that, we’ll be glad to do that instead.”

I want to focus in on this "THE WORST CAMP IN 40 YEARS". I guess that is why they tried to bring Cleary in. Not sure what about this camp made it the worst. Are players pissed they brough in Vinny? Schenn, Voracek or Couts feel threatened? Is it because leadership wasnt there. Giroux was barely there because of the injury.... was it because they weren't in the FSZ?
- youarewrong

Maybe they felt beaten. Like they knew they couldn't win.

The red flag was really those last preseason games. You could tell they really wanted those games, but just couldn't win.

It didn't happen too fast. That's nonsense. Torono had the time to make the play, the Flyers had time to cover it. It's called positioning. The other players were caught watching the puck. Good defenders anticipate plays, and cover the dangerous areas of the ice with solid positioning. There were multiple breakdowns on the play. Coverage in front of the net is the priority on a puck up for grabs in the corner. Basic fundamental defensive zone coverage. Can't get any simpler.
- MJL

The three guys near the crease were in perfect position, considering the circumstances. Two guys sealing off either post, and one guy at the top covering the pass out to the slot area. Watching the puck is called reading the play -- not sure how we're pillorying guys for that, now.

A poor showing by Streit leads to a perfect pass to a guy sneaking in late.

Maybe you can fault Schenn for not being able to stop the pass out front, but why was he in that position in the first place? Oh yea, Streit was out-skated and out-muscled.

Some great Snider quotes after the presser..

“I thought our training camp, quite frankly, was one of the worst training camps I had ever seen,” club chairman Ed Snider said.

“Not talking about wins or losses. There was nothing exciting. Nobody shined. Nobody looked good. I couldn’t point to one thing as a positive and I was personally worried. Unfortunately, my worries were realized in the first three games.”

“Unfortunately, in the business we’re in, the only way to find out
- Buzzo[about the players] is to make a change,” Snider said. “You can’t get rid of all the players. This is why coaches lose their jobs and sometimes lose them because of the players, but we don’t know that until we make a change. Sometimes we’re right and sometimes we’re wrong. We think our players are better than they’ve looked.”

So, someone asked Snider, you fire the coach because you can’t get rid of the players?

“Right,” Snider replied. “You show me a way to do that, we’ll be glad to do that instead.”

He woke up in a foul mood today!

Okay, who do you want to start with? Because it starts at the top of the lineup.
- MJL

Lets trade them all and get connor mcdavid in 2015 !

Some great Snider quotes after the presser..

“I thought our training camp, quite frankly, was one of the worst training camps I had ever seen,” club chairman Ed Snider said.

“Not talking about wins or losses. There was nothing exciting. Nobody shined. Nobody looked good. I couldn’t point to one thing as a positive and I was personally worried. Unfortunately, my worries were realized in the first three games.”

“Unfortunately, in the business we’re in, the only way to find out
- Buzzo[about the players] is to make a change,” Snider said. “You can’t get rid of all the players. This is why coaches lose their jobs and sometimes lose them because of the players, but we don’t know that until we make a change. Sometimes we’re right and sometimes we’re wrong. We think our players are better than they’ve looked.”

So, someone asked Snider, you fire the coach because you can’t get rid of the players?

“Right,” Snider replied. “You show me a way to do that, we’ll be glad to do that instead.”

See, that's what I'm saying: The players don't look good. Blame Peter Laviolette for whatever makes any one person happy, but there are plenty of players who are either effort-deficient or skill-deficient, and that shows up on the scoreboard.

He woke up in a foul mood today!
- PhillySportsGuy

Empty Viagra bottle and no refills.

It wasn't just a media thing. Compare his WJC to Tavares from the year before. He blew him away. That was tactile. You could see it. He was a dominant player.

When we traded for him I thought maybe he was going to be slow to adjust to the NHL game but he looks like a shadow of the player I saw in that tournament. It's difficult to understand. At first I thought it was a confidence thing, now I'm not sure he's physically able to compete at that level (above being a decent NHL Pro).

I'm hoping he has a break out season before the team decides he's expendable.
- mayorofangrytown

If Flyers history has taught us anything, I wouldn't bet on it.

First, just because you think a team sucks, doesn't mean you won't root for them. An example would be this year's Sixers. I am a Sixers' fan, but they will suck big time.

Second, I don't think he's saying they suck. I think the point is the team is flawed. The defenseman lack mobility, puck handling and passing as a whole.

I believe some of this can be rectified with a change in system allowing players to have easier outlets to move the puck. I also think the team (especially the forwards) lack confidence. You'd be amazed what a change in confidence can do for a young team.
- PhillySportsGuy

Every team has flaws. It's the job of the coach to hide those flaws and to fix them if teams begin to expose those flaws. That is why Lavi is to blame for this. He just never adjusted.

Now, if Berube impliments a system where the defense isn't expected to move the puck, just to shut down the defense. Meaning the forwards are going to have to be more of a backchecking and carry the puck and dump and chase, then the Defense is fine. If they impliment a system where the forwards can use thier size and speed to dump and chase and cycle, instead of passing into open shooting lanes, then this could be a high scoring team.

The point is, the team isnt bad. They just need to adjust to their flaws, not play into them.

The three guys near the crease were in perfect position, considering the circumstances. Two guys sealing off either post, and one guy at the top covering the pass out to the slot area. Watching the puck is called reading the play -- not sure how we're pillorying guys for that, now.

A poor showing by Streit leads to a perfect pass to a guy sneaking in late.

Maybe you can fault Schenn for not being able to stop the pass out front, but why was he in that position in the first place? Oh yea, Streit was out-skated and out-muscled.
- Tomahawk

Again: Mark Streit was at fault in the ways you have described, but Schenn was soft on the puck. It would've been nice if he had pinned that puck on the boards instead of getting knocked off it pretty easily.

That's not what happened, and we gave up the goal.

He's not useless. I agree with the earlier sentiment that this defense is just too stationary. I remember only a few years ago when this team lacked a true net front presence on defense. It seems they overcompensated.
- PhillySportsGuy

I admit I'm very late to this happy little bon voyage party but while the reasoning is understandable, the timing has me scratching my head...that is until I remember who is making these decisions.

It just doesn't seem sensible to allow Lavi to remain on after last year citing the shortened season, no training camp (though it wasn't like everyone wasn't in the same boat there), injuries, etc., and not give him a reasonable opportunity to turn this leaky ship around.

Getting pink slipped after a brutal pre-season, where it is very difficult to get a proper feel on the full squad when they aren't playing together, and a three game audition to pull it all together, seems ludicrous to me.

Am I upset about the firing? Yes, only because that meant the team wasn't playing well. I don't particularly care who's behind the bench as long as he gets the players to play hard every night, and compete. X's and O's aside, if the team plays hard, you should be in every game. This team hasn't been recently and something had to give. But the time wasn't now - it was at the end of last year.

A new coach means a new voice, new ideas, new game plan, a chance to give him an entire summer to meet with the GM and decide what direction he wants to go as far as personnel is concerned and plan he's like to implement.

Though we're only 3 games in, how much of an adjustment could Berube make other that tweaking the plan somewhat and cracking the whip? Will it jump start these guys? Maybe. Hopefully.

I just think the better path would've to either have been to start fresh with a new look last June, or give Lavi at least 15 games to get control of the room once again.

Now it seems we're caught somewhere in the middle of the old and the not-so-new.

So, someone asked Snider, you fire the coach because you can’t get rid of the players?

“Right,” Snider replied. “You show me a way to do that, we’ll be glad to do that instead.”
- Buzzo

Claude Giroux, Scott Hartnell, Jakub Voracek, Vincent Lecavalier, Matt Read, Braydon Schenn, Sean Couturier, Wayne Simmonds, Adam Hall, Jay Rosehill, Kris Newbury, Kimmo Timonen, Luke Schenn, Braydon Coburn, Niklas Grossmann, Andrei Meszaros, Mark Streit, Steve Mason

for

Shea Weber, 4th rounder.

Talbot, Rinaldo, Laughton 1st line
Gustafsson on top pair with Weber
Emery and Stolarz as goalies.

If Flyers history has taught us anything, I wouldn't bet on it.
- Tomahawk

yeah, I know. I still think we sold low on JVR and it pains me.

The three guys near the crease were in perfect position, considering the circumstances. Two guys sealing off either post, and one guy at the top covering the pass out to the slot area. Watching the puck is called reading the play -- not sure how we're pillorying guys for that, now.

A poor showing by Streit leads to a perfect pass to a guy sneaking in late.

Maybe you can fault Schenn for not being able to stop the pass out front, but why was he in that position in the first place? Oh yea, Streit was out-skated and out-muscled.
- Tomahawk

There is a name for this. I believe it's Carle Syndrome.

just catching up on everything ... can anyone clue me in on Berube's system and/or approach? I assume it's more defensive-oriented, but that's obviously an over simplification.

Though we're only 3 games in, How much of an adjustment could Berube make other that tweaking the plan somewhat and cracking the whip? Will it jump start these guys? Maybe. Hopefully.
- 77rams

Berube needs to beat the crap out of the first guy who's dogging it in practice. Gotta make an example outta someone.

just catching up on everything ... can anyone clue me in on Berube's system and/or approach? I assume it's more defensive-oriented, but that's obviously an over simplification.
- FlyerGuy

He replaces Lavi's jam with some punch.