Rumors that the Leafs have been shopping/listening to offers for Jake Gardiner.

Supposedly they want a young center. Would anyone consider a deal built around Couturier or Schenn for Gardiner?
- Jsaquella

ummmmmmm

YES!

a young D man to build around

I'd do Couts for Gardiner straight up, again, I like Couts, but when Kimmo hangs it up we will be in trouble, this is a need for need

Bradon Schenn
Couts
Laughton plenty of young centers, and Vinny is here for a few years, but what young D man can play 20 minutes on the back line after Kimmo retires?

I would even do Couts for Franson

To be honest, I understand giving Pete another crack at it, but if there are as many concerns as it sounds like about the team, I can't figure out why you wait until right now to fire him. Almost sets the team back another year doing that unless Berube can turn it around fast.

Just trying to figure out how we went from playoff hopefuls to trading the farm and firing everyone.

proper vetting was not done on bryz and that's obvious. rumors of his act were rife from his cincy days in the A. it was an expensive fiasco based on paroxysm of nutty impatience by the org that cost us a good prospect in bob. that's a colossal fail and you're delusional if you can't see this. the rest is just your opinion which your entitled to, but i think you wear orange-colored glasses.

homer is hardly one of the top GMs in the league as you have opined here. i think hexy will have his job if they miss the plyoffs.
- isaiah520

You don't know what the Flyers were aware of about Bryzgalov and his personality. Nor how much of that went into the decision to sign him. And I won't criticize them for going out and signing a player who was considered a top goaltender. The expensive part is not an issue with me as a fan. I could care less how much they have to pay him now. It doesn't affect the team going forward. No team or GM gets it's right all the time.
I don't care what you think I'm wearing. I'm objective. I don't think you are objective. And I think you forget to take certain things into account such as the Pronger injury and the effect that can have on a team, and how hard that is to replace.
Lastly, you don't have your facts straight. I never called Holmgren a top GM. I think he's a good GM who has done a good job overall. I would not label him a top GM in the League. Do you're incorrect there. But he's certainly not the buffoon you opine him to be.

as to the other part, my big issue is that w/ all of the young talent that has left the org, all we have to show for it on D is luke. considering the age/injury concerns w/ pronger pre-concussion and kimmo and the contract situation of coby/carle at the time, it's a fail in my book.
- isaiah520

So we don't have Couturier, Voracek, B Schenn and Simmonds from the Richards and Carter deals? Who is the other young talent that has left the Orginization?

Oh, please. To say that the moves this club makes are not unusually risky is denying the facts. No team takes more gambles than this one. One gut move after another. I'm not saying it hasn't been fun and entertaining, but every move they make is reactive... seldom proactive
- Dkos

I disagree completely. Trading for a top defenseman and a clear difference maker in Chris Pronger is not a gamble. When you have a weak spot in net, signing the best goaltender available who has played to the level of a Vezina finalist. Is not gambling. Nor are they gut moves. It's trying to win. Every move they make is reactive? Let's discuss every move and see if that's true.

Giving a 9 year deal to a goalie who just got shelled in the playoffs was a huge gamble. The safer, smarter move was signing Vokoun to back up Bob.
- Feanor

The Coyotes got shelled as a team. Bryzgalov was a Vezina finalist. Going with Bobrovsky as a starter is the gamble. Going with the proven goaltender was not. The 9 years was to get the Cap hit lower. If he played to his potential, the Cap hit was reasonable.

Bill, a lot of people are always saying trade schenn and couts. I understand that everyone wants that young good d man. The thing is I feel like the flyers always trade a player before his prime. Most players play their best around 25-30. Schenn is 22 (I think) and couts is 20. I know everyone wants to see results right now, but I feel like if we trade them before they hit their prime it would be a mistake.
Any thoughts?
- steveromanowski

My thoughts are that I agree with you.

ummmmmmm

YES!

a young D man to build around

I'd do Couts for Gardiner straight up, again, I like Couts, but when Kimmo hangs it up we will be in trouble, this is a need for need

Bradon Schenn
Couts
Laughton plenty of young centers, and Vinny is here for a few years, but what young D man can play 20 minutes on the back line after Kimmo retires?

I would even do Couts for Franson
- puckhead17

Gardiner is not going to replace Timonen.

Rumors that the Leafs have been shopping/listening to offers for Jake Gardiner.

Supposedly they want a young center. Would anyone consider a deal built around Couturier or Schenn for Gardiner?
- Jsaquella

I wouldn't trade either, but especially not Couturier who is signed for three more years at a very low cap hit. Who is going to play 3C if he goes?

Gardiner is not going to replace Timonen.
- MJL

i worry when I hear teams are shopping "top end" "up and coming" "potential first pair" D-men. If they are all of those things... why the hell are you trying to trade him? There are much easier ways of acquiring a young good center.

It makes me skeptical.

And Couts for Franson is hilarious.

My thoughts are that I agree with you.
- MJL

Trade sharp early, could be our first line winger. get rid of carter Richards in their prime, trade jvr. I love the pronger move but we loose sbisa. So many times we pull the trigger on players before they are ready to hit their best years of their career. No wonder everyone leaves and wins a cup. Williams is another example. I forget a lot of the rest (its too early to think) but it pisses me off

The Coyotes got shelled as a team. Bryzgalov was a Vezina finalist. Going with Bobrovsky as a starter is the gamble. Going with the proven goaltender was not. The 9 years was to get the Cap hit lower. If he played to his potential, the Cap hit was reasonable.
- MJL

Signing a 31 year old goalie who just got lit up like a Christmas Tree to a nine year deal was clearly a huge gamble. And they were only saved from it poisoning the team for the entire decade by the lockout and the compliance buyouts.

I disagree completely. Trading for a top defenseman and a clear difference maker in Chris Pronger is not a gamble. When you have a weak spot in net, signing the best goaltender available who has played to the level of a Vezina finalist. Is not gambling. Nor are they gut moves. It's trying to win. Every move they make is reactive? Let's discuss every move and see if that's true.
- MJL

Honestly, Holmgren has done everything he can to try to make the best team possible. I don't agree with every move but he got good return in every trade and made good signings at those times.

i worry when I hear teams are shopping "top end" "up and coming" "potential first pair" D-men. If they are all of those things... why the hell are you trying to trade him? There are much easier ways of acquiring a young good center.

It makes me skeptical.

And Couts for Franson is hilarious.
- jak521

Not to mention that Gardiner can't get in the lineup. And had issues getting in the lineup last year. Not trading either Couturier or B Schenn for him. No way.

I don't care what you think I'm wearing. I'm objective. I don't think you are objective.
- MJL

Yep, of course.

Signing a 31 year old goalie who just got lit up like a Christmas Tree to a nine year deal was clearly a huge gamble. And they were only saved from it poisoning the team for the entire decade by the lockout and the compliance buyouts.
- Feanor

I don't view it as a gamble. Those 4 playoff games don't define Bryzgalov to the point that you ignore the other history. It didn't work out for a number of reasons. But I don't view it as a gamble.

Honestly, Holmgren has done everything he can to try to make the best team possible. I don't agree with every move but he got good return in every trade and made good signings at those times.
- steveromanowski

I agree.

Not to mention that Gardiner can't get in the lineup. And had issues getting in the lineup last year. Not trading either Couturier or B Schenn for him. No way.
- MJL

luke schenn spent time as a healthy scratch the year the flyers traded jvr for him

Yep, of course.
- Pecafan Fan

When the GM gets blamed for the defense, and the injury to a franchise player like Pronger is not taken into consideration. Because the GM couldn't possibly be faulted for that. As well as not taking into consideration how hard it is to replace a player like that. That's not being objective.

I read an article which said that the Flyers now hold the record for the quickest firing of a head coach at the start of a season.

At least now their #1 at something besides money spent on average defensive players. I wonder if they are #1 at handing out no trade/movement clauses as well?
- Flyers_01

not true. heard on XM that a coach was blown out after 1 gm in '45 and at least 1 other coach was canned after 2...too lazy to look it up, but that's what they said.

When the GM gets blamed for the defense, and the injury to a franchise player like Pronger is not taken into consideration. Because the GM couldn't possibly be faulted for that. As well as not taking into consideration how hard it is to replace a player like that. That's not being objective.
- MJL

Oh I agree with that part of your argument.

Bruce Arthur ‏@bruce_arthur 16m
So @darrendreger just told us on TSN Radio that a Philly source openly wondered whether Luke Schenn can even play anymore.
whats this mean?
- Winning

Luckily for us, Dreger doesn't have a clue.

Right now, Schenn is last among Flyers D-men in ice time through 3 games.

not true. heard on XM that a coach was blown out after 1 gm in '45 and at least 1 other coach was canned after 2...too lazy to look it up, but that's what they said.
- isaiah520

The Red Wings fired Bill Gadsby after 2 games in 1969-70...Ironically, Gadsby was 2-0 when the move came.

luke schenn spent time as a healthy scratch the year the flyers traded jvr for him
- Crimsoninja

Luke Shenn played 70 games in his Rookie Season. He missed 12 games due to a hip injury. The other remaining Seasons as a Leaf he played 79, 82, and 79 games.

Gardiner played 12 out of 48 games as a Leaf last Season. He missed 2 games with a concussion. And he was also sent to the AHL last Season after the lockout. And he can't get into the lineup so far this Season.

I don't think it's the same thing.

Luke Shenn played 70 games in his Rookie Season. He missed 12 games due to a hip injury. The other remaining Seasons as a Leaf he played 79, 82, and 79 games.

Gardiner played 12 out of 48 games as a Leaf last Season. He missed 2 games with a concussion. And he was also sent to the AHL last Season after the lockout. And he can't get into the lineup so far this Season.

I don't think it's the same thing.
- MJL

He played all 3 games so far.