Did he do something to you personally? He was pretty well-liked in Chicago and Ottawa by teammates and fans, iirc.

He's definitely not my first choice, but it's one of the few scenarios where I see the Flyers being able to add their winger, get rid of Mez's contract, and not incur all the risks of staying in LTIR.
- Tomahawk

He was the one who started the whole Sens/Flyers brawl night. Then he sat in the penalty box like a female dog and never came back on the ice once all hell broke loose.

Did he do something to you personally? He was pretty well-liked in Chicago and Ottawa by teammates and fans, iirc.

He's definitely not my first choice, but it's one of the few scenarios where I see the Flyers being able to add their winger, get rid of Mez's contract, and not incur all the risks of staying in LTIR.
- Tomahawk

Trading one "problem" for another team's "problem" is a fairly common practice on sports.

Umm... The debate of which player the Flyers should have taken.
- PLindbergh31

Isn't that also the Couturier/Hamilton debate?

I agree. I'm glad Hartnell had success on the first line a couple years ago but I think it's time to bump him down
- mcefalu

And you know, it's not a crime -- Holmgren says it a lot, because it's true: This is a young man's sport. Hartnell can still play and be effective, but the pace of play for a first-liner, how quickly and precisely you have to be able to make not just a play, but the right play...I don't know that he's that player anymore.

I want him to be. I really do. But at some point, we have to acknowledge the truth about certain things, and one of them is that the first line not scoring isn't due to "compete level" and "bad luck."

It could be that one player is simply incapable of producing at that level and is "black holing" the unit.

Trading one "problem" for another team's "problem" is a fairly common practice on sports.
- johndewar

Its a shame that trading a problem for a future Hall of Famer isnt a fairly common practice for Philadelphia teams.

That would be pretty extreme.

I don't like Talbot at center. He's very weak on face-offs.
- PhillySportsGuy

Extreme times bring extreme measures. Couter needs to grow and get in the top six one day soon or he will become a career third liner, he has the ability to be much more than that but needs the opportunity. The way Harts is playing he is not contributing anything to the top line, give Couter that chance and watch him flourish.
Hartnell at this stage would be a great third line player.

Isn't that also the Couturier/Hamilton debate?
- jmatchett383

There will be a lot of debating in 15 years.

He was the one who started the whole Sens/Flyers brawl night. Then he sat in the penalty box like a female dog and never came back on the ice once all hell broke loose.
- PhillySportsGuy

Seeing him get Kronwalled was fantastic. In the "new" NHL he'd have gotten a 10-gamer for the cross check to Recchi.

Exactly -- you can't control luck, manufacture it, summon it or produce it. There's no Mystical Luck Ritual that a team can perform. Mario Lemieux and Jaromir Jagr weren't more lucky than Stephen Weiss and Nathan Horton.

They were better players, with more speed, strength, hockey IQ, coordination/athletic ability. Teams with better players tend to find themselves in better positions on the ice, with more options available to them, some of the quality options that their increased skill and talent is able to capitalize on.
- AllInForFlyers

The real point is that Brayden Schenn took advantage of a good bounce by skating hard to the net. Same with Coburn who recognized what was happening. And took advantage of it. And it's not a coincidence that teams that play hard, and work hard, tend to get luckier more often.

Extreme times bring extreme measures. Couter needs to grow and get in the top six one day soon or he will become a career third liner, he has the ability to be much more than that but needs the opportunity. The way Harts is playing he is not contributing anything to the top line, give Couter that chance and watch him flourish.
Hartnell at this stage would be a great third line player.
- flyerdude17

I think you're giving up on Hartnell a little too early. It's only been 4 games and the entire team looks like crap.

Power forwards always struggle when the game is being played in their end of the ice.

Let's let the team work through this and right the PP before we throw Hartnell onto the third line (Which is a bad idea considering his penchant for falling undisciplined play).

There will be a lot of debating in 15 years.
- PhillySportsGuy

As opposed to now.

Flyers should have taken Datsyuk over Gagne 15 years ago!

Seeing him get Kronwalled was fantastic. In the "new" NHL he'd have gotten a 10-gamer for the cross check to Recchi.
- jmatchett383

If he would have stayed on the ice and fought someone, that entire incident wouldn't have happened.

Although, I'm not upset that it did happen

As opposed to now.

Flyers should have taken Datsyuk over Gagne 15 years ago!
- jmatchett383

They could have had both!

Granted, their best offensive leaders right now aren't playing up to their historical abilities -- G and Kimmo are stuck in a rut.

They really need that additional winger that can score 20-25 goals, push Talbot down to the 4th-line, and push Rosehill to the AHL.
- Tomahawk

The Flyers have 6-7 forwards that are capable of scoring 20+ goals. Even if Talbot goes to the 4th line. Rosehill is still likely to be the 13th forward. Which is the role he was signed for.

The real point is that Brayden Schenn took advantage of a good bounce by skating hard to the net. Same with Coburn who recognized what was happening. And took advantage of it. And it's not a coincidence that teams that play hard, and work hard, tend to get luckier more often.
- MJL

Right. OK.

But by all accounts, Florida played hard and worked hard last night. As a matter of fact, by all accounts, including yours, Florida played harder and worked harder than the Flyers last night.

And yet...no points for the Panthers. Because luck has nothing to do with "playing hard" and "working hard."

Brayden/Braydon scored because that was the way the puck bounced. Nothing more or less than that.

They could have had both!
- PhillySportsGuy

Terrible draft management yet again.

I think you're giving up on Hartnell a little too early. It's only been 4 games and the entire team looks like crap.

Power forwards always struggle when the game is being played in their end of the ice.

Let's let the team work through this and right the PP before we throw Hartnell onto the third line (Which is a bad idea considering his penchant for falling undisciplined play).
- PhillySportsGuy

Maybe but I would rate Hartnell as probably the worst skater on the team and maybe one of the worst in the nhl. He is clumsy like a grizzly bear on skates. I love his toughness, grit etc but he is really not a finesse type of guy. He is not capable of playing give and go with Giroux because he lacks vision and skill. He had one great year but this is now and he does not have it anymore. I am glad Lava is gone and maybe now the young guys may have a chance to succeed.

Right. OK.

But by all accounts, Florida played hard and worked hard last night. As a matter of fact, by all accounts, including yours, Florida played harder and worked harder than the Flyers last night.

And yet...no points for the Panthers. Because luck has nothing to do with "playing hard" and "working hard."

Brayden/Braydon scored because that was the way the puck bounced. Nothing more or less than that.
- AllInForFlyers

The Flyers won because Mason was a brick wall, Schenn busted his ass to the front of the net, and Tim Thomas wasn't able to get his groin into the crease on a nothing shot from Coburn. Those goals can be considered lucky bounces, but lucky bounces don't count for anything if you're not there to take advantage.

Right. OK.

But by all accounts, Florida played hard and worked hard last night. As a matter of fact, by all accounts, including yours, Florida played harder and worked harder than the Flyers last night.

And yet...no points for the Panthers. Because luck has nothing to do with "playing hard" and "working hard."

Brayden/Braydon scored because that was the way the puck bounced. Nothing more or less than that.
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, Boyes wasn't working hard when the slapper from the point hit Luke Schenn and landed right on his stick with a yawning net to look at... he was just floating around at the bottom of the circles as he always does. If he's actually working hard, that goal might not have happened for them.

Luck is luck. You can create opportunities through hard work, but you can't control the way the puck bounces, or bad calls, or broken sticks, or goaltenders pulling groins mid-save.

Maybe but I would rate Hartnell as probably the worst skater on the team and maybe one of the worst in the nhl. He is clumsy like a grizzly bear on skates. I love his toughness, grit etc but he is really not a finesse type of guy. He is not capable of playing give and go with Giroux because he lacks vision and skill. He had one great year but this is now and he does not have it anymore. I am glad Lava is gone and maybe now the young guys may have a chance to succeed.
- flyerdude17

I love Hartnell, but I'd consider dropping him down to the 3rd/4th line for a few games. Aside from his foot speed, his release right now is ridiculously slow. So easy to block/deflect his shots.

Giroux/Vinny/Voracek
Hartnell/Schenn/Read
Rinaldo/Cooter/Smmonds
Hall/Talbot/Rosehill

Yeah, Boyes wasn't working hard when the slapper from the point hit Luke Schenn and landed right on his stick with a yawning net to look at... he was just floating around at the bottom of the circles as he always does. If he's actually working hard, that goal might not have happened for them.

Luck is luck. You can create opportunities through hard work, but you can't control the way the puck bounces, or bad calls, or broken sticks, or goaltenders pulling groins mid-save.
- Tomahawk

Unless you're willing to entice the ref with a few Benjamins

If he would have stayed on the ice and fought someone, that entire incident wouldn't have happened.

Although, I'm not upset that it did happen
- PhillySportsGuy

I was there for that game.. Still pissed that all of our bigger and tougher guys were currently out for that game..

Imagine Fridge and Primeau and co out there as well.

The Havlat butt-end and then him not manning up really has caused me to dislike the guy.

The Flyers won because Mason was a brick wall, Schenn busted his ass to the front of the net, and Tim Thomas wasn't able to get his groin into the crease on a nothing shot from Coburn. Those goals can be considered lucky bounces, but lucky bounces don't count for anything if you're not there to take advantage.
- jmatchett383

And some game, that's going to happen TO the Flyers, not for them.

And it will have nothing to do with how hard the Flyers are or are not working -- hell, that goal that Brian Gionta scored on Saturday had a puck that jumped over Mark Streit's stick AND skates. He was looking right at the puck. He tried to make a play on it. But the puck simply bounced away.

That's got nothing to with how hard Mark Streit did or didn't play, or did or did not compete.

Mason 9 starts with Flyers. Save % .939

Small sample size yes, but very nice to see.
- PLindbergh31

don't fool yourself. he sucks. everyone says so.