Maybe but I would rate Hartnell as probably the worst skater on the team and maybe one of the worst in the nhl. He is clumsy like a grizzly bear on skates. I love his toughness, grit etc but he is really not a finesse type of guy. He is not capable of playing give and go with Giroux because he lacks vision and skill. He had one great year but this is now and he does not have it anymore. I am glad Lava is gone and maybe now the young guys may have a chance to succeed.
- flyerdude17

Erm, Hartsy is a lot of things, but a bad skater and a player with a lack of baseline skills he ain't.

He plays out of control, which leads to all the thrashing/stumbling/falling/bad penalties.

And he's downright dumb, so he often doesn't make the right play, or he makes horrible mistakes/reads, even though he's got all the technical skills to make great plays and produce points.

The real point is that Brayden Schenn took advantage of a good bounce by skating hard to the net. Same with Coburn who recognized what was happening. And took advantage of it. And it's not a coincidence that teams that play hard, and work hard, tend to get luckier more often.
- MJL

There's no basis to this statement. It's all perception on your part.

There's no basis to this statement. It's all perception on your part.
- bradleyc4

There is no spoon

Yeah, Boyes wasn't working hard when the slapper from the point hit Luke Schenn and landed right on his stick with a yawning net to look at... he was just floating around at the bottom of the circles as he always does. If he's actually working hard, that goal might not have happened for them.

Luck is luck. You can create opportunities through hard work, but you can't control the way the puck bounces, or bad calls, or broken sticks, or goaltenders pulling groins mid-save.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. That's it, exactly.

I've been watching Hartnell pretty closely the last two games...he needs to be off the first line. I hate to say it because I love the guy, but...well, I'll say it. The pace of play for a first-liner...isn't where he is right now.

I have some concern if that pace of play is something that he is capable of, at the moment.
- AllInForFlyers

Right now Giroux isn't playing to the pace of a first line player. I guess it's the annual scapegoat of Hartnell kicking in. A good line has balance. Some speed, playmaking, grit, and scoring, on the offensive side. Hartnell has the size and grit to make up a well rounded line. They certainly aren't clicking right now. But I'd give a little time for the Flyers offensive catalyst, Giroux to get going.

Erm, Hartsy is a lot of things, but a bad skater and a player with a lack of baseline skills he ain't.

He plays out of control, which leads to all the thrashing/stumbling/falling/bad penalties.

And he's downright dumb, so he often doesn't make the right play, or he makes horrible mistakes/reads, even though he's got all the technical skills to make great plays and produce points.
- Tomahawk

And despite the fact that he does fall down a lot, but I still think he is fast enough to keep up with Giroux. Agility, however, is SEVERELY lacking on his part. He can't exactly turn on a dime. A hubcap? Maybe.

I have been very happy with the play of Brayden Schenn.. He was easily the most dangerous forward on the ice last night IMO. He had 4 or 5 high quality chances to go with his goal, and was a pest around the net all night. Hopefully he can continue to build on that.

Rinaldo has two hits already this year that are of the "I think that dude just poop his pants" variety. What a beauty of a hit on Shore.
- jak521

He has been a bright spot so far this season.

And some game, that's going to happen TO the Flyers, not for them.

And it will have nothing to do with how hard the Flyers are or are not working -- hell, that goal that Brian Gionta scored on Saturday had a puck that jumped over Mark Streit's stick AND skates. He was looking right at the puck. He tried to make a play on it. But the puck simply bounced away.

That's got nothing to with how hard Mark Streit did or didn't play, or did or did not compete.
- AllInForFlyers

The Coburn goal was just a flukey goal. Those usually even out by the end of the season. The Schenn goal absolutely had to do with hard work. He drive to the net and beat 2 defenders. And I agree, this has nothing to do with how Streit played last night.

Right. OK.

But by all accounts, Florida played hard and worked hard last night. As a matter of fact, by all accounts, including yours, Florida played harder and worked harder than the Flyers last night.

And yet...no points for the Panthers. Because luck has nothing to do with "playing hard" and "working hard."

Brayden/Braydon scored because that was the way the puck bounced. Nothing more or less than that.
- AllInForFlyers

Schenn scored because he went hard to the net and got rewarded for it. I guess the bounce of the puck automatically meant that Schenn's shot would go in the net. So I think there's a little more to it then just the bounce. If Schenn is not in the right position, it's just a bounce and nothing more.

And you might want to reread my statement. It didn't state that the team working harder always gets the bounces. It basically said that the team playing harder and working harder, tends to get the bounces to go their way more often. That's sports.

We all got a good laugh from Berube's reaction to Sielski's question about punishing Rosehill, but Sielski has a good point. Berube stated that one of the things he's going to change on this team is accountability. So, where's the accountability for Rosehill? Check out Sielski's Inqy column [url] http://www.philly.com/phi...onish_behavior_slide.html

Hartnell Down was in full effect last night... there was one shift I recall where he flopped to the ice at least three times on body contact. He really bought that Gudbranson penalty, too. Offensively, it looks like Hartnell-G magic is all used up, especially that pass into the high slot on the PP.

Simmonds, I wouldn't mind see stay w/ Giroux for awhile. He has the legs, balance and puck control to do the job there.


Rosehill....
- Tomahawk

i'm not liking simmonds on G's line at all. don't think they mesh well. maybe i'm just stuck on hi hideous form of skating. he looks like a newborn horse or giraffe or something. leans too far foward, with these giant shoulder pads, flailing about. don't like that top line right now at all.

and hartnell ...i don't know what he's doing at all.

The Coburn goal was just a flukey goal. Those usually even out by the end of the season. The Schenn goal absolutely had to do with hard work. He drive to the net and beat 2 defenders. And I agree, this has nothing to do with how Streit played last night.
- jmatchett383

They absolutely even out. If somebody had put a gun to my head -- and Bradley, to his credit, had pointed it out before that -- but I would've bet the house that the Flyers would've scored a "weird" goal at even strength last night.

I mean, seriously. Let's be honest. They probably should've scored at least two, maybe three, on Toronto on the power play. They had pucks deflecting and leaking through off great puck movement. They had energy and were playing hard.

They just got beat by Montreal -- some of us disagree about why.

Carolina was the game where all of the Flyers' flaws, to me, were on full display.

Last night, they didn't play better than they did against Toronto. They didn't play better or worse than they did against Carolina.

Last night, they just got two weird goals that wouldn't come against Toronto.

We all got a good laugh from Berube's reaction to Sielski's question about punishing Rosehill, but Sielski has a good point. Berube stated that one of the things he's going to change on this team is accountability. So, where's the accountability for Rosehill? Check out Sielski's Inqy column
- Dkos[url] http://www.philly.com/phi...onish_behavior_slide.html

I read that article. I thought it was hilarious when Berube told him to get lost.

Berube isn't going to come out and tell the media, yes I'm sending Rosehill to the Cote suite for 3 games. He's going to keep discipline internal. I would be surprised to see Rosehill in the lineup this weekend.

Schenn scored because he went hard to the net and got rewarded for it. I guess the bounce of the puck automatically meant that Schenn's shot would go in the net. So I think there's a little more to it then just the bounce. If Schenn is not in the right position, it's just a bounce and nothing more.

And you might want to reread my statement. It didn't state that the team working harder always gets the bounces. It basically said that the team playing harder and working harder, tends to get the bounces to go their way more often. That's sports.
- MJL

You're conflating luck w/ opportunities.

There's absolutely no way to predict how the puck is going to come off the boards... Schenn worked hard to get to the top of the crease, but 9 times out of 10, that puck is not bouncing off the boards right to him... it's bouncing past him, or flips up into the air, or deadens behind the net.

Hard work got Schenn the opportunity, but blind, unpredictable luck was the reason he had a chance in the first place.

And some game, that's going to happen TO the Flyers, not for them.

And it will have nothing to do with how hard the Flyers are or are not working -- hell, that goal that Brian Gionta scored on Saturday had a puck that jumped over Mark Streit's stick AND skates. He was looking right at the puck. He tried to make a play on it. But the puck simply bounced away.

That's got nothing to with how hard Mark Streit did or didn't play, or did or did not compete.
- AllInForFlyers

You're confused here. You seem to be thinking in terms of hard play creates luck. It does not. The team working harder is normally in better position to take advantage of the luck. A team that is controlling play in the offensive zone, has a better chance of getting a lucky bounce, or a lucky deflection, then the team that is getting outworked and is hemmed in their zone for extended periods of time. It's not fool proof, and it's not 100%. But that's the way it normally swings.

And the Gionta goal is the perfect example of it.

They absolutely even out. If somebody had put a gun to my head -- and Bradley, to his credit, had pointed it out before that -- but I would've bet the house that the Flyers would've scored a "weird" goal at even strength last night.

I mean, seriously. Let's be honest. They probably should've scored at least two, maybe three, on Toronto on the power play. They had pucks deflecting and leaking through off great puck movement. They had energy and were playing hard.

They just got beat by Montreal -- some of us disagree about why.

Carolina was the game where all of the Flyers' flaws, to me, were on full display.

Last night, they didn't play better than they did against Toronto. They didn't play better or worse than they did against Carolina.

Last night, they just got two weird goals that wouldn't come against Toronto.
- AllInForFlyers

They were definitely of the odder variety. My only point is that, on the Schenn goal, if he doesn't bust his butt to the net, it's a forgotten quirky bounce. That's my only point. Luck doesn't matter if you don't act to take advantage.

You're confused here. You seem to be thinking in terms of hard play creates luck. It does not. The team working harder is normally in better position to take advantage of the luck. A team that is controlling play in the offensive zone, has a better chance of getting a lucky bounce, or a lucky deflection, then the team that is getting outworked and is hemmed in their zone for extended periods of time. It's not fool proof, and it's not 100%. But that's the way it normally swings.

And the Gionta goal is the perfect example of it.
- MJL

No, I'm not confused at all. Not even a little bit.

Schenn scored because he went hard to the net and got rewarded for it. I guess the bounce of the puck automatically meant that Schenn's shot would go in the net. So I think there's a little more to it then just the bounce. If Schenn is not in the right position, it's just a bounce and nothing more.

And you might want to reread my statement. It didn't state that the team working harder always gets the bounces. It basically said that the team playing harder and working harder, tends to get the bounces to go their way more often. That's sports.
- MJL

That has been the issue with Giroux so far....your bang on.....Schenn has been rewarded for going to the tough places on the ice....Giroux has played a perimeter game....even the play Schenn missed in tight from a lazy pass by Florida, almost went in because he was in that dirty area, where you have to pay a price....Giroux's best hockey is when he engages physically and is hard on the puck.....then again he probably could have 4 assists by now if Hartnell was on his game.
I have every confidence Giroux will turn it around....he's way to good for it not to happen.

We all got a good laugh from Berube's reaction to Sielski's question about punishing Rosehill, but Sielski has a good point. Berube stated that one of the things he's going to change on this team is accountability. So, where's the accountability for Rosehill? Check out Sielski's Inqy column
- Dkos[url] http://www.philly.com/phi...onish_behavior_slide.html

I kind of interpreted Berube's response as being annoyed with the question. I think Berube feels he doesn't need to explain to the media his discipline methods at a press conference. I assume that what Berube will do is just sit Rosehill. Not sure that is enough to get it through his head that he can't do what he did since he's the type of guy who is used to coming in and out of the lineup. But you are right. If there is to be accountability, how is it implemented? It's easy to talk about it. Doing it is another thing.

Particularly impressed with the backcheck from Staal here.


- PLindbergh31

nevermind that. hertl's foot is clearly in the crease before the puck. no goal.

They were definitely of the odder variety. My only point is that, on the Schenn goal, if he doesn't bust his butt to the net, it's a forgotten quirky bounce. That's my only point. Luck doesn't matter if you don't act to take advantage.
- jmatchett383

But the puck could have just as easily bounced over to somebody not moving their feet, getting into a high-traffic area, or busting their ass at all... right?

You're conflating luck w/ opportunities.

There's absolutely no way to predict how the puck is going to come off the boards... Schenn worked hard to get to the top of the crease, but 9 times out of 10, that puck is not bouncing off the boards right to him... it's bouncing past him, or flips up into the air, or deadens behind the net.

Hard work got Schenn the opportunity, but blind, unpredictable luck was the reason he had a chance in the first place.
- Tomahawk

No, you're arguing semnatics. You're right, 9 times out of 10 that puck isn't bouncing right to Schenn. But I guarantee that 10 times out of 10, if Schenn doesn't go hard to the net, the puck isn't bouncing to him in that dangerous area of the ice. It's a perfect example of a player benefitting from luck, due to hard work to get to the net. And it's the old adage of good things happen when you go to the net.

Bill quick question since you're a smart guy.

How it that Lavi couldn't get the players to play much any better but a coach like McLelan in San Jose can be on the hotspot many times, bench his stars, and still get them to play great?

nevermind that. hertl's foot is clearly in the crease before the puck. no goal.
- hammarby31

My favorite part is you can clearly see Biron try to scoop the puck up with his glove LONG after it's already soared over his shoulder and into the net

You're conflating luck w/ opportunities.

There's absolutely no way to predict how the puck is going to come off the boards... Schenn worked hard to get to the top of the crease, but 9 times out of 10, that puck is not bouncing off the boards right to him... it's bouncing past him, or flips up into the air, or deadens behind the net.

Hard work got Schenn the opportunity, but blind, unpredictable luck was the reason he had a chance in the first place.
- Tomahawk

a wise coach always told me "good things happen when you go to the net"....and "you cant score unless you hit the net"....seems simple enough, but it is something some have struggled with this year.