Interested to see how many games Kaleta gets. Should be more than 10.


- PLindbergh31

Kaleta is such a piece of poop...

Killjoy!
- Tomahawk

haha sorry. Yeah, like them or not, he and Steit will be Philadelphia Flyers for the next 2-3 years at least.

I've been pretty consistent on a couple of things, a few of which have happened:

Sean Couturier needed a scoring winger, and Craig Berube gave him one in Matt Read.

Grossmann/Meszaros needed to be split up, and that happened last game, as well.

I still think they need to add a scoring winger, because I believe Maxime Talbot is better served as a fourth-line player who adds extra value by his ability to kill penalties.

I think we need at least one defenseman, and maybe two, who can skate and handle the puck, pass the puck, at a plus-level -- and personally, the player I would bench is Andrej Meszaros.

Why Meszaros? To me, he looks like Wade Redden right now -- not an awful player who shouldn't be playing hockey, but whose abilities are currently at a level that he simply isn't a better alternative to others -- which is the main reason to ever upgrade a spot.
- AllInForFlyers

Ok, yeah I think that's all fair. I'm in favor of giving Mez more of a chance to work himself back into form from 2010-2011, but I realize that could be unlikely. The issue of course is figuring out whether to fill that puck moving defenseman void via trade or hoping someone like Gus can grow into that role, although at this rate that isnt happening any time soon with his lack of playing time.

I just think it's important to not underestimate a coaches' system and the positive effect it could have on the players buying into it. That's not to say Berube's system will magically turn two of our defensemen into Norris candidates, but maybe it gives one of them the jump they need.

But I don't think he's the answer. Just something seems lacking in him at times.
- jmatchett383

Say what you will about him, but he's pretty much what we've all been asking for... Streit, Schenn and Coburn rolled into one.

The Sabres fans will tell you that it was a clean hit to the shoulder, nothing serious. At least we all agree (usually) when a player does something suspension-worthy that it's suspension-worthy.
- jmatchett383

I'm from upstate NY and am friends with quite a few Sabres fans who are anti-Kaleta

I've been pretty consistent on a couple of things, a few of which have happened:

Sean Couturier needed a scoring winger, and Craig Berube gave him one in Matt Read.

Grossmann/Meszaros needed to be split up, and that happened last game, as well.

I still think they need to add a scoring winger, because I believe Maxime Talbot is better served as a fourth-line player who adds extra value by his ability to kill penalties.

I think we need at least one defenseman, and maybe two, who can skate and handle the puck, pass the puck, at a plus-level -- and personally, the player I would bench is Andrej Meszaros.

Why Meszaros? To me, he looks like Wade Redden right now -- not an awful player who shouldn't be playing hockey, but whose abilities are currently at a level that he simply isn't a better alternative to others -- which is the main reason to ever upgrade a spot.
- AllInForFlyers

I like all of this. In the preseason games I got to watch Mez looked marginally better then Gus. I haven't seen anything but highlights of the reg season so far, and am sad to read this about Mez. When he is playing with confidence he gives the team some things they need, a good quick point shot and the ability to move the puck up the ice. He at times can lost in his own zone, but that year he was paired with Sean O'Donnell and played against lesser competition he was pretty good.

Ok, yeah I think that's all fair. I'm in favor of giving Mez more of a chance to work himself back into form from 2010-2011, but I realize that could be unlikely. The issue of course is figuring out whether to fill that puck moving defenseman void via trade or hoping someone like Gus can grow into that role, although at this rate that isnt happening any time soon with his lack of playing time.

I just think it's important to not underestimate a coaches' system and the positive effect it could have on the players buying into it. That's not to say Berube's system will magically turn two of our defensemen into Norris candidates, but maybe it gives one of them the jump they need.
- mcefalu

And I'm buying into that -- again, I'm NOT saying that Craig Berube's system won't help. And as a fan of the team, I am truly hoping it does.

That being said, I'd be playing Gus over Meszaros right now. I say that without hesitation or remorse.

Let's be honest... the goaltenders have been bailing out the horrendous team D. If Mason and Emery aren't eating all that rubber, our start would look more like the Rangers' (0-6 and 2-9).

As for the theory that Streit will fuel the transition game at ES, it's important to point out that the initial step of the transition game is actually getting the puck back from the other team. Streit, unfortunately, is not very good in this regard. Unlike the big slow guys we have back there, he's not strong enough to separate attackers from the puck, or tie a guy up and wait for help. And unlike a Coburn or a Gus, he's not fast/quick enough to intercept pucks shot around the boards, able to keep up w/ the cycle game, or close the gap on guys consistently. It's like a mini PP for the other team when he's on the ice.

Gus would be a strong improvement at ES, IMO.

And you would still have Streit on the bench for o-zone draws, trailing by a goal situations, PP, etc.
- Tomahawk

No doubt, goalies have been the best players so far this season for the Flyers.

What I should have said, of the two, the O is more concerning to me than the D.

And if I remember correctly, I had Streit on my fantasy team back in the day (when he was on the Canadiens), and he was moved back and forth between O and D.

Forward? Defenseman? Regardless of which position he's playing, Mark Streit has certainly made a name for himself in 2006-07, setting career highs across the board. Get to know more about the 29-year-old Swiss native, who has become the "jack of all trades" for the Canadiens this season.

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=489444

I'm up for whatever makes this team better.

And if I remember correctly, I had Streit on my fantasy team back in the day (when he was on the Canadiens), and he was moved back and forth between O and D.



http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=489444

I'm up for whatever makes this team better.
- wolfhounds

Yeah, Martin (I think it was) used him as a 4th-line forward, PP specialist.

Maybe he's the answer to the 3rd-line winger hole opening on Cooter's line?


Edit; Yikes, nvm, it was Carbo or Julien.

But here is what I keep coming back to: I realize that Peter DeBoer is a great coach and the Devils really bought into his defensive system the last couple of years, but you look at who they have on the blueline, especially when they made it to the stanley cup finals in 2011-2012 and you don't see a franchise defenseman capable of moving the puck AND clearing the crease AND quarter backing the PP, etc. As good as Adam Larsson is going to be one day, he ain't there yet. They made do with what they had at the time and fully bought into the system.

I'm not saying that Berube is going to get the Flyers to the stanley cup finals with the defense that we have this year, but there's enough talent on the flyers blue line to make the playoffs provided they execute a more defensively responsible system, IMVHO.

I would rather see them stand pat for now, get the system going and reevaluate whether a trade is necessary or not later on

imagine the first episode of 24/7 if the flyers/rags winter classic was this year

Ha! I just posted what I wanted them to do -- and for now, giving Couturier a winger and splitting up Grossmann/Meszaros might be all they should do, at this exact moment, until they see what this thing looks like with Berube's system in place.

But my thing is this: I have followed this team for decades, like a number of us. But I also follow the sport of hockey. And that informs my opinions about this team.

I don't dislike any player on this team. But I'm not blinded to the fact that this team has weaknesses that can and should be addressed.

Do I want them to gut the youth? Not necessarily. Do I want them to stand pat?

No. Absolutely not. Because this roster, as constructed, isn't good enough.

There are trades out there that could be made that would change the functionality of this roster -- for instance, if, and I repeat IF, the Flyers and Toronto wanted to, they could trade J-M Liles for Nicklas Grossman, have roughly the same cap hits and years left on each deal, but exchange two totally different kinds of players.

Now, before the usual suspects jump all over that, I'm not saying to do that. But what I am saying is that there are trades out there that can improve this team, improve the functionality of this roster, as a whole. And that we shouldn't be so loyal to any one player that "we like" to the exclusion of making that deal -- because to be honest, I think two "hockey trades" makes this team look a hell of a lot better than it is currently.
- AllInForFlyers

thanks for the reply.
Trading with Toronto is interesting because they have a history of making trades and the Leafs seem to have an excess of offensive type deffenesman right now.

Not sure they would want Grossmann or Coburn but it is interesting nonetheless.

As far as trading a forward I am guessing you would favor trading a grinder type for a skill/speed guy.

To me that means Simmonds as the piece going away, as Hartnell has the NTC. And I can't see them trading baby Schenn or Couts away at this point. I would hate to lose Simmonds. But I could see it happening.

imagine the first episode of 24/7 if the flyers/rags winter classic was this year
- Crimsoninja

two sorry ass teams right now

Say what you will about him, but he's pretty much what we've all been asking for... Streit, Schenn and Coburn rolled into one.
- Tomahawk

sort of like Tastykake?

got to run for now, hope the boys bring the effort tonight

thanks for the reply.
Trading with Toronto is interesting because they have a history of making trades and the Leafs seem to have an excess of offensive type deffenesman right now.

Not sure they would want Grossmann or Coburn but it is interesting nonetheless.

As far as trading a forward I am guessing you would favor trading a grinder type for a skill/speed guy.

To me that means Simmonds as the piece going away, as Hartnell has the NTC. And I can't see them trading baby Schenn or Couts away at this point. I would hate to lose Simmonds. But I could see it happening.
- Marc D

best was Favell for Parent

Say what you will about him, but he's pretty much what we've all been asking for... Streit, Schenn and Coburn rolled into one.
- Tomahawk

I've been asking for a defensive system where the forwards backcheck and the defensemen aren't left to fend for themselves.
/kinda sarcasm

I know that Phaneuf is a top-flight defenseman. But I don't think he's on Pronger level. He's on 07/08 Timonen level, but with different skills. He's more physical where Kimmo was more mobile. He's got a harder shot where Kimmo was a better passer and skater. Both ex-captains. I'd go for him, but I wouldn't break the bank for him.

haha sorry. Yeah, like them or not, he and Steit will be Philadelphia Flyers for the next 2-3 years at least.
- jmatchett383

Four, including this one.

Who's really going to want a 37-38-year old declining d-man for that cap hit or salary?

I've been pretty consistent on a couple of things, a few of which have happened:

Sean Couturier needed a scoring winger, and Craig Berube gave him one in Matt Read.

Grossmann/Meszaros needed to be split up, and that happened last game, as well.

I still think they need to add a scoring winger, because I believe Maxime Talbot is better served as a fourth-line player who adds extra value by his ability to kill penalties.

I think we need at least one defenseman, and maybe two, who can skate and handle the puck, pass the puck, at a plus-level -- and personally, the player I would bench is Andrej Meszaros.

Why Meszaros? To me, he looks like Wade Redden right now -- not an awful player who shouldn't be playing hockey, but whose abilities are currently at a level that he simply isn't a better alternative to others -- which is the main reason to ever upgrade a spot.
- AllInForFlyers

Meszaros was arguably their best defenseman last game. I would not bench him at this point. I like Talbot on the 3rd line and I think he's wasted as a 4th line player. This team needs to be a harder team to play against, it needs to play better defensively as a team. And it needs to compete at a higher level. Those are the real needs of this team. Along with changing the style and system of play to better suit the personnel on hand. If they continue to play the way they have this Season, adding a 3rd line Winger won't do squat. This team has one of the deepest groups of offensive forwards in the League.
Absolutely agree that at some point, they need to change the mix on defense.

thanks for the reply.
Trading with Toronto is interesting because they have a history of making trades and the Leafs seem to have an excess of offensive type deffenesman right now.

Not sure they would want Grossmann or Coburn but it is interesting nonetheless.

As far as trading a forward I am guessing you would favor trading a grinder type for a skill/speed guy.

To me that means Simmonds as the piece going away, as Hartnell has the NTC. And I can't see them trading baby Schenn or Couts away at this point. I would hate to lose Simmonds. But I could see it happening.
- Marc D

Yes -- you've got me figured out. I would be looking to move Wayne Simmonds -- not because he can't play, but because he'd bring back a good piece that is different than the pieces we have AND would help us.

Yes -- you've got me figured out. I would be looking to move Wayne Simmonds -- not because he can't play, but because he'd bring back a good piece that is different than the pieces we have AND would help us.
- AllInForFlyers

Simmonds + Grossmann for Eberle?

Yes -- you've got me figured out. I would be looking to move Wayne Simmonds -- not because he can't play, but because he'd bring back a good piece that is different than the pieces we have AND would help us.
- AllInForFlyers

Wouldn't be totally opposed to that either, I'd be interested to see what would hypothetically be offered back

Simmonds + Grossmann for Eberle?
- Feanor

See, to me, Edmonton should do that, and we should do that. But from what I gather, Edmonton feels Eberle is worth more than that, and we shouldn't offer more than that.

Let's be honest... the goaltenders have been bailing out the horrendous team D. If Mason and Emery aren't eating all that rubber, our start would look more like the Rangers' (0-6 and 2-9).

As for the theory that Streit will fuel the transition game at ES, it's important to point out that the initial step of the transition game is actually getting the puck back from the other team. Streit, unfortunately, is not very good in this regard. Unlike the big slow guys we have back there, he's not strong enough to separate attackers from the puck, or tie a guy up and wait for help. And unlike a Coburn or a Gus, he's not fast/quick enough to intercept pucks shot around the boards, able to keep up w/ the cycle game, or close the gap on guys consistently. It's like a mini PP for the other team when he's on the ice.

Gus would be a strong improvement at ES, IMO.

And you would still have Streit on the bench for o-zone draws, trailing by a goal situations, PP, etc.
- Tomahawk

You make an excellent point. In order to take advantage of Streit's skill set as a puck moving defenseman, the Flyers simply need to have the puck more. Play more with the puck, then they do chasing the other team when they have the puck. Pretty simple and makes perfect sense. We agree there.
What I don't agree with it one, I think you exaggerate Streit's defensive shortcomings. The real issues is the team's defensive shortcomings as a whole. If they were a smarter forechecking team, that was much better at one, separating the opposition from the puck on the forecheck. Two becoming a much better 3 zone team that breaks plays up the the neutral zone, and allows the opposition less time and space to carry and pass the puck. Which would all help drastically cut down on the time spent defending in their own end chasing the puck. They would possess the puck more, and Streit would become a more valuable player, and the Flyers would be in better position to take advantage of the skills he brings to the ice. And I want to see what Gustafsson can do, but I think it's a stretch at this point to say that he would be a strong improvement at ES. It's passing puck possession game today. And there's no way that Gustafsson is more efficient at that, then Streit is. Cart before the horse here. Streit isn't the problem. The Flyers overall team game is.

There are trades out there that could be made that would change the functionality of this roster -- for instance, if, and I repeat IF, the Flyers and Toronto wanted to, they could trade J-M Liles for Nicklas Grossman, have roughly the same cap hits and years left on each deal, but exchange two totally different kinds of players.

Now, before the usual suspects jump all over that, I'm not saying to do that. But what I am saying is that there are trades out there that can improve this team, improve the functionality of this roster, as a whole. And that we shouldn't be so loyal to any one player that "we like" to the exclusion of making that deal -- because to be honest, I think two "hockey trades" makes this team look a hell of a lot better than it is currently.
- AllInForFlyers

At some point, there may be some trades that can improve this team. But Grossmann for Liles is not one of them.
I don't think there's many fans that judge a trade based on who "we like". The specifics of those hockey trades would have to be known to determine if it makes the team a hell of a lot better. Trades have also been known to make teams worse.