They should get rid of Holmgren right now. How this should have been handled is when Laviolette was fired, Hextall should have replaced Holmgren. Now when Hextall takes over, he already has a coach in place that he didn't hire.

There is no way Holmgren should be allowed to make save his job panic trades.

This JVR trade right now looks so bad it's not funny.
- PLindbergh31

in bold, why? because of the complete switch from one coaches style to a different coach & different style?
That can't help anyone's game.
and your forgetting what he brought last year when the other 5 D men were hurt, he was solid.

Homer didn't pay Bryz $20 million for 2 years that was again, u know who, I don't think Homer is completely responsible
- puckhead17

if I am Homer I am taking offers for Simmonds and the Schenn Bros

Homer didn't pay Bryz $20 million for 2 years that was again, u know who, I don't think Homer is completely responsible
- puckhead17

The moment Snider vowed that the Flyers would never be embarrassed again and promised to get a real goaltender, you knew who played a big part in the Bryz signing.

I actually like L. Schenn. Just because the fans have JVR's value high doesn't mean every GM does.
- idiotsallofu

yeah, most trades are not evaluated until a few years down the road, but look at the other D men, Timmo is 40 Coburn struggles (again, different system) Grossman strong but slow, we had to make that deal, JVR wasn't going to get us Drew Doughty

in bold, why? because of the complete switch from one coaches style to a different coach & different style?
That can't help anyone's game.
and your forgetting what he brought last year when the other 5 D men were hurt, he was solid.
- puckhead17

L. Schenn was solid last year, last year is over. It's a small sample size 6 games but right now L. Schenn is the teams 6th dman, and an argument can be made he should be a healthy scratch.

The quote from Dreger regarding 22Schenn is very concerning. Also regarding Schenn, he has limited offensive ability, so if he struggles defensively he's not bringing much if anything to the table.

Well the GM thought correctly they needed a puck mover in the back, and rather then trade 3 top assets for a Yandle type he elected to go the FA route.

Not sure I agree with it, but it was damn sure better then trading away Couts plus another roster player plus a first rounder.

I don't agree with the Vinnie thing either, when they needed a top 6 winger more then a 2nd center. I would have given B Schenn and Couts the center spots and looked for a winger. Instead they went for the best UFA available and hope to convert Schenn to wing.

I understand the moves.
I think the struggles so far show they are not 1-2 guys away from contending.
Signing Streit and Vinnie does not bring them a cup.
Clearly they should now see it is going to be a rebuilding team.
Keep the picks and the youth at this point.
- Marc D

I thought you guys needed Defense man who actually had a clue how to play the position ? I don't get the Streit signing either. How is he any better then Timmo?

There is often a tendency among fans to rip and tear at individual players when things are going poorly (or, in the hotbed of negativity that is Philadelphia, even when the team wins). I see it wasted energy and an exercise in futility. The Flyers are NOT losing because so-and-so is or is not in the lineup or because X player is being misused or because the team really ought to trade/waive whomever the Roman Chorus is currently displeased.

The team was -- and still is -- suffering from an all-encompassing lack of identity and confidence. It did not get that way overnight nor will it be magically fixed overnight. That's not to say that Holmgren doesn't need to make improvements to the roster mix, but it does mean that Berube and company can't be worried about that. Teams have gotten to the playoffs with lesser on-paper personnel than the current Flyers have.

So you're saying they are losing because they lack an identity and confidence? Because they don't have good team leadership? Because they don't have confidence in each other? Because they didn't buy into Lavi's system and there hasn't been enough time for Berube to really establish his own? Something else? Further, you hint they aren't losing because trades need to be made, then go on to say Holmgren might need to make trades. What do you see as lacking on this roster? Who needs to go?

Why wouldn't Giroux feel confident? I'm not sure that can be blamed on a system or team identity unless there is some deeper issue with this team. G's job is to score, win faceoffs, and defend/back-check. I'm not sure why he would lack confidence in his ability to do these things. Does he feel too much pressure this year after not making the playoffs and on top of his new contract?

if I am Homer I am taking offers for Simmonds and the Schenn Bros
- vejim

sure what would dangling a few core pieces do to help?

Like no other GM can recognize the the dire situation here & will offer a great deal coming back?

seriously

The moment Snider vowed that the Flyers would never be embarrassed again and promised to get a real goaltender, you knew who played a big part in the Bryz signing.
- idiotsallofu

I put that on Holmgren. What's wrong with the owner wanting to have good goaltending. The choice to sign Bryz for all that money and all those years is on Holmgren. The decision to trade Bob is on Holmgren.

I put that on Holmgren. What's wrong with the owner wanting to have good goaltending. The choice to sign Bryz for all that money and all those years is on Holmgren. The decision to trade Bob is on Holmgren.
- Dkos

How do you know Snider had no play in it? How do you know that Snider didn't say give Bryz what he wants, i want him?


And we still had Bob at the time Snider said that. Obviously Snider didn't think much of bob.

We all know that Hartnell's injury last year as well as being out of shape helped make him a waste of roster space last year. With another long term injury this year there is every likelyhood he will struggle upon returning, same as last year.

With him being a first line winger who has only produced 50+ points (or was on pace to score 50+ points) only one time in the last 5 years, does that failure belong to Hartnell or Holmgren?

How do you know Snider had no play in it? How do you know that Snider didn't say give Bryz what he wants, i want him?


And we still had Bob at the time Snider said that. Obviously Snider didn't think much of bob.
- idiotsallofu

Snider the owner trusts his GM will pick the right players to dish the money out to

We all know that Hartnell's injury last year as well as being out of shape helped make him a waste of roster space last year. With another long term injury this year there is every likelyhood he will struggle upon returning, same as last year.

With him being a first line winger who has only produced 50+ points (or was on pace to score 50+ points) only one time in the last 5 years, does that failure belong to Hartnell or Holmgren?
- Flyers_01

What was the injury exactly? No one touched him. Out for a month from a non contact injury. It's going to be another lost year for Hartnell.

How do you know Snider had no play in it? How do you know that Snider didn't say give Bryz what he wants, i want him?


And we still had Bob at the time Snider said that. Obviously Snider didn't think much of bob.
- idiotsallofu

Either Holmgren is an empty suit frontman for Snider or he's the GM. Which one is it? It seems like Holmgren's being given a pass on everything because every bad thing is Sniders fault. Other posters think that Holmgren would resign before becoming an empty suit. They both can't be right.

What was the injury exactly? No one touched him. Out for a month from a non contact injury. It's going to be another lost year for Hartnell.
- PLindbergh31

Probably the result of one of his many Hartnell down moments.

L. Schenn was solid last year, last year is over. It's a small sample size 6 games but right now L. Schenn is the teams 6th dman, and an argument can be made he should be a healthy scratch.

The quote from Dreger regarding 22Schenn is very concerning. Also regarding Schenn, he has limited offensive ability, so if he struggles defensively he's not bringing much if anything to the table.
- PLindbergh31

I like Dreger but really who cares???
I've beaten this point to death, Salvador was an average D man in St. Louis he's the Devils top guy now, why? Because he got that much better? He lifted more weights?
NO, he's in a structured system that utilizes his strength as a player, I really don't know what the coach is asking him to do, and to dump on him, when a few others Coburn last night bad penalties from getting beaten Grossman looked even slower then normal.
Where does one begin?

L. Schenn was solid last year, last year is over. It's a small sample size 6 games but right now L. Schenn is the teams 6th dman, and an argument can be made he should be a healthy scratch.

The quote from Dreger regarding 22Schenn is very concerning. Also regarding Schenn, he has limited offensive ability, so if he struggles defensively he's not bringing much if anything to the table.
- PLindbergh31

He's got more goals than most of the forwards on this team. And Mesz got scratched in favor of Gus last night. And L Schenn is 23. We saw last year he's got the tools. As for what's off this year, isn't that the 60 million dollar question?

Snider the owner trusts his GM will pick the right players to dish the money out to
- vejim

I believe Snider plays a part in pretty much everything Homer does.

How do you know Snider had no play in it? How do you know that Snider didn't say give Bryz what he wants, i want him?


And we still had Bob at the time Snider said that. Obviously Snider didn't think much of bob.
- idiotsallofu

I dont. I only have what Snider say to go by. He has stated numerous times that he leaves hockey decisions up to the GM. I believe that. He may have demanded that Holmer fix the goalie situation but its on Homer for how it was done.

What was the injury exactly? No one touched him. Out for a month from a non contact injury. It's going to be another lost year for Hartnell.
- PLindbergh31

Don't worry though, we have 5 more years for him to have 1 good year to justify his contract.

I like Dreger but really who cares???
I've beaten this point to death, Salvador was an average D man in St. Louis he's the Devils top guy now, why? Because he got that much better? He lifted more weights?
NO, he's in a structured system that utilizes his strength as a player, I really don't know what the coach is asking him to do, and to dump on him, when a few others Coburn last night bad penalties from getting beaten Grossman looked even slower then normal.
Where does one begin?
- puckhead17

One more Concussion or one more leg injury and Grossman retires. He either won't be able to spell his name or he will need a sundial to get from one zone to another.

I dont. I only have what Snider say to go by. He has stated numerous times that he leaves hockey decisions up to the GM. I believe that. He may have demanded that Holmer fix the goalie situation but its on Homer for how it was done.
- Dkos

No one seriously knows HOW much input the "old man" has, but he wasn't quiet during the presser, he was pissed, imagine how pissed he is behind closed doors, & you think he has no or very little input?

He's got more goals than most of the forwards on this team. And Mesz got scratched in favor of Gus last night. And L Schenn is 23. We saw last year he's got the tools. As for what's off this year, isn't that the 60 million dollar question?
- wolfhounds

Gustafsson played very well last night, and should have been playing from the start of the season.

Don't worry though, we have 5 more years for him to have 1 good year to justify his contract.
- Flyers_01

This team needs to stop handing out high paying, long term agreements with NMC's. Absolutely ridiculous...it takes away from a level to compete.

Looks at the Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers as an example.

Maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's the 3 hours of sleep who knows.

Nice read Bill.

On a side note, with about 8 minutes left in the third, and on the PP, Schenn got the puck to Timonen, who was wide open in front of Howard.

All he had to do was shoot, and get it on net, and we probably would have tied the game.

Instead, he chose to try and pass it to Giroux, which was intercepted by a Red Wing, and 2 minutes later, Detroit scores. Game over.

The lack of confidence is screaming at the fans while watching this team crumble.

With the team struggling, and behind one in the third...you take the shot.

Bad choice by Kimmo, and it cost us the game.

Not the only thing that cost the game, but it sure didn't help.
- meduser

that play did piss me off, he usually makes the right decision