The best players on this team have been terrible. Im glad hartnell is out he has been worthless.
- Just5

Im glad someone else sees this... Ive seen this pretty much right when we got him... Hes never going to have another 30 goal season... and hes making way to much money to do nothing... 4.7 to barely know how to skate, take dumb penalties, score 20 goals (if he even does that). To me there has only been a few players that have really stood out. LeCavalier, Read, B. Schenn, Gus, McGinn. - Streit is a nightmare to watch... havent seen any ''break out'' passes... Isnt that why we got him?

Another tough loss. They did a lot of good last night, but Ray Emery wasn't on his game, and the PK wasn't quite playing like it's usual outstanding self (despite little support from the goalie). I think one thing holding us back immensely right now is finishing ability. We're getting the chances. We're out shooting the other teams we play, and often times controlling the play. We just need someone to bury it. Despite the positives, though, I'd like to see a big trade happen. A trade probably couldn't happen til the deadline, or offseason, but gutting and redoing the defense is an apparent need. We need to trim the fat on our D and get Mezaros, Coburn, and (unfortunately) Kimmo out. This will open space in the roster for guys like Gus and other youth like Lauridsen to get into the NHL next year. Then I think we need to take the bullet and pay the necessary price for a #1 Dman like Weber. I saw a Pens fan suggest Voracek, BSchenn, Coburn, and a 1st for Weber and Craig Smith. I think we need to (again unfortunately) get rid of Hartnell, and fill his roster spot with youth that will play with more heart (McGinn), or a skill guy like Thomas Vanek. We don't need a full rebuild, but we do need a bit of an overhaul in places.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-06-22/sports/29690025_1_salary-cap-ed-snider-ilya-bryzgalov
- wolfhounds

guess my quotes were a little off, but...

http://articles.philly.com/2011-06-22/sports/29690025_1_salary-cap-ed-snider-ilya-bryzgalov
- wolfhounds

Good link. Looks like definitive proof that Bryz can't be laid solely at Holmgren's feet.

Another tough loss. They did a lot of good last night, but Ray Emery wasn't on his game, and the PK wasn't quite playing like it's usual outstanding self (despite little support from the goalie). I think one thing holding us back immensely right now is finishing ability. We're getting the chances. We're out shooting the other teams we play, and often times controlling the play. We just need someone to bury it. Despite the positives, though, I'd like to see a big trade happen. A trade probably couldn't happen til the deadline, or offseason, but gutting and redoing the defense is an apparent need. We need to trim the fat on our D and get Mezaros, Coburn, and (unfortunately) Kimmo out. This will open space in the roster for guys like Gus and other youth like Lauridsen to get into the NHL next year. Then I think we need to take the bullet and pay the necessary price for a #1 Dman like Weber. I saw a Pens fan suggest Voracek, BSchenn, Coburn, and a 1st for Weber and Craig Smith. I think we need to (again unfortunately) get rid of Hartnell, and fill his roster spot with youth that will play with more heart (McGinn), or a skill guy like Thomas Vanek. We don't need a full rebuild, but we do need a bit of an overhaul in places.
- JAKEw1234

Good luck with most of that as half the team has no movement clauses, including Hartnell.

Good link. Looks like definitive proof that Bryz can't be laid solely at Holmgren's feet.
- Flyers_01

Not that particular trade...but Homer's still clearly on the short bus. I personally don't care who did what in the past, I want to hear from the guy who knows how to fix what's wrong right now.

you no this team this early in the season is only a 3 or 4 game winning streak away from being right back in there.... the nail was hit on the head by the chief.... lack of skating leads to stupid penalties....you move your feat and you can compete ....this team needs work after the next 2 games we have 7 days off i want to see what this team does with that time ... how the practices can improve the problems....7 days is almost like a mini training camp...hopefully they can right the sinking ship with a little hard work and effort

Good luck with most of that as half the team has no movement clauses, including Hartnell.
- Flyers_01

Just because they have a NMC doesn't mean they can't be moved. If a GM makes it apparent they no longer want a player around, the player may become uncomfortable playing for the team and waive his NMC, or work witht he GM to find a team they'd be ok going to.

He's an average player to me. Always has been. He has some worth, but I don't think he fits an offense type system. He did well under Lava, but he also got to play on the top line for the last 5 years. He's not a bad player, just an average power forward. One of the very few power forwards that can't skate at all.

It's crazy how many NTC's we have on this team. With that said, here is a list of players I'm putting on the trading block if I'm GM of the team.

Hartnell - No need for him AND Simmonds
Timonen - Love the guy, but he's not getting younger
Streit - Not even sure why they signed the guy
L. Schenn - Meh
B. Schenn - Playing very well of late, but still would rather trade him
Coutier - Meh

Rebuild the team. Rebuild the identity. Rebuild our hope.
- Flyersgod

I disagree with L. Schenn, B. Schenn and Couts... Specially if B. Schenn has the most goals on the team thus far... As far as Couts - hes playing pretty well for being a 3rd line center and playing PK... Hes young and playing important roles that get him very little recognition... and as far as L. Schenn he has been playing way better and make good decisions by moving in and being more offensive. But the top three i deff agree with you... Create your identity around younger players... Bring up McGinn and Gus and then start from there.

Another tough loss. They did a lot of good last night, but Ray Emery wasn't on his game, and the PK wasn't quite playing like it's usual outstanding self (despite little support from the goalie). I think one thing holding us back immensely right now is finishing ability. We're getting the chances. We're out shooting the other teams we play, and often times controlling the play. We just need someone to bury it. Despite the positives, though, I'd like to see a big trade happen. A trade probably couldn't happen til the deadline, or offseason, but gutting and redoing the defense is an apparent need. We need to trim the fat on our D and get Mezaros, Coburn, and (unfortunately) Kimmo out. This will open space in the roster for guys like Gus and other youth like Lauridsen to get into the NHL next year. Then I think we need to take the bullet and pay the necessary price for a #1 Dman like Weber. I saw a Pens fan suggest Voracek, BSchenn, Coburn, and a 1st for Weber and Craig Smith. I think we need to (again unfortunately) get rid of Hartnell, and fill his roster spot with youth that will play with more heart (McGinn), or a skill guy like Thomas Vanek. We don't need a full rebuild, but we do need a bit of an overhaul in places.
- JAKEw1234

rather would pay less and roll the dice on a guy like myers than trade for weber - which is unrealistic anyway- and dress a couple of more phantoms.

you no this team this early in the season is only a 3 or 4 game winning streak away from being right back in there.... the nail was hit on the head by the chief.... lack of skating leads to stupid penalties....you move your feat and you can compete ....this team needs work after the next 2 games we have 7 days off i want to see what this team does with that time ... how the practices can improve the problems....7 days is almost like a mini training camp...hopefully they can right the sinking ship with a little hard work and effort
- flyer186

who are they going to beat, they already lost to Carolina and Columbus has Bob who will kill us

flyers were much better last night 5 on 5; i think at one point they were up 20-13 in shots and down in PP's 1-3. i really don't care about the calls on the flyers but i have a real issue with the non-calls the other way. if matt read held, slashed, and took down daniel alfredsson on a breakaway every ref in the league would call a penalty on read. at least 5 times in the third period flyers players were taken down away from the play. how long must this team pay for the bullies reputation?

you no this team this early in the season is only a 3 or 4 game winning streak away from being right back in there.... the nail was hit on the head by the chief.... lack of skating leads to stupid penalties....you move your feat and you can compete ....this team needs work after the next 2 games we have 7 days off i want to see what this team does with that time ... how the practices can improve the problems....7 days is almost like a mini training camp...hopefully they can right the sinking ship with a little hard work and effort
- flyer186

Agreed. It's better to have these issues - and hopefully work through them - early in the season rather than later, because most teams are going to struggle here or there over 82 games.

rather would pay less and roll the dice on a guy like myers than trade for weber - which is unrealistic anyway- and dress a couple of more phantoms.
- isaiah520

Maybe, but I think that's just continuing our trend of cutting corners on defenseman. We don't want to take the time to draft and groom a #1 Dman, and we don't want to pay the price required to get one through trade. I think we need to suck it up and just pay the price.

one of the worst things that happens here and i am as guilty of it as everyone else is that after a loss we come on here and rip this team a new one and as fans we all have that right...i think every once and a while we need to take a step back and look at the game from an outside view.. the flyers made a lot of positive adjustments last night the 5 on 5 play was much inproved from earlier games... the team defense was much better 5 on 5 last night... they generated alot of good scoring chances....yes there was also some negatives... in all truth goal tending let us down last night and one of our strengths, the penalty kill hurt us last night... but over all the team has made some good improvements... we all knew this wouldn't turn around over night but i think they are taking a step in the right direction

flyers were much better last night 5 on 5; i think at one point they were up 20-13 in shots and down in PP's 1-3. i really don't care about the calls on the flyers but i have a real issue with the non-calls the other way. if matt read held, slashed, and took down daniel alfredsson on a breakaway every ref in the league would call a penalty on read. at least 5 times in the third period flyers players were taken down away from the play. how long must this team pay for the bullies reputation?
- hogweed

Nah I think that breakaway didn't deserve a call actually. It was pretty obvious (to me at least) that Matt Read fell without much help at all from Alfredsson.

I didn't get a chance to watch last night's game, so I can't speak for the game. But I think this team makes the playoffs this year, they turn this around. It will take time no doubt. It is time for the leaders of this team to step up, there are a few ex-captains in the locker room they need to show it. If G is truly a world class player he needs to put this team on his back and carry them. This turn around can't be done by just the coaches.

If this team can turn it around they will be one tough team to deal with.

who are they going to beat, they already lost to Carolina and Columbus has Bob who will kill us
- vejim

thats why i want to see how the team plays after the 7 day break... its hard to get your new system in play with only a few practices playing back to backs and 3 games in 4 nights give them a chance and i think they will turn this around

one of the worst things that happens here and i am as guilty of it as everyone else is that after a loss we come on here and rip this team a new one and as fans we all have that right...i think every once and a while we need to take a step back and look at the game from an outside view.. the flyers made a lot of positive adjustments last night the 5 on 5 play was much inproved from earlier games... the team defense was much better 5 on 5 last night... they generated alot of good scoring chances....yes there was also some negatives... in all truth goal tending let us down last night and one of our strengths, the penalty kill hurt us last night... but over all the team has made some good improvements... we all knew this wouldn't turn around over night but i think they are taking a step in the right direction
- flyer186

Its just passion and venting.. Die hard fans need an outlet, and being able to vent with other frustrated fans helps.

Nah I think that breakaway didn't deserve a call actually. It was pretty obvious (to me at least) that Matt Read fell without much help at all from Alfredsson.
- JAKEw1234

there were callable infractions on the play: he held him and his stick came down across his arm pretty hard (slash). if alfie (or any wing player) went down the arm would go up

I didn't get a chance to watch last night's game, so I can't speak for the game. But I think this team makes the playoffs this year, they turn this around. It will take time no doubt. It is time for the leaders of this team to step up, there are a few ex-captains in the locker room they need to show it. If G is truly a world class player he needs to put this team on his back and carry them. This turn around can't be done by just the coaches.

If this team can turn it around they will be one tough team to deal with.
- LJF

i no i am going to get crucified for this ... but G shouldnt be the captain i said it last night in his own words he lacks confidence.... how can you lead a team without confidence..not a knock on Giroux he is a great player he is a great talent but not every player can be a captain....there are far better choices right now in that locker room 2 they just signed.... vinny was a captain for Tampa for a long time kimmo for Nashville.. striet for NY islanders some times in certain situations you need the experienced guy to be the leader...

Its just passion and venting.. Die hard fans need an outlet, and being able to vent with other frustrated fans helps.
- mikel33

oh i no trust me i vent here as much as anyone... for awhile i stopped coming on after a loss cause i could get so negative

i'm glad raffl and mcginn played well last night, but i'm surprised that someone who spends as much time analyzing this lineup as you do would think that a couple of phantoms with potential would be the answer.
- -davies-

Ha! You want to know the honest truth? The performance of the players the Phantoms were replacing were so bad, so limiting this team, that you could literally call up AHL-trained players and make the Flyers look better.

I like Scott Hartnell, and I'm sure Andrej Meszaros is trying his best. But last night was the first time this season the Flyers actually looked like an NHL team that might actually beat other NHL teams, and there's a reason for that.

This team could be actually be pretty good, if the front office is aggressive and just says, "You know what? If Erik Gustafsson made us look that much more effective, what would we look like if we got an above-average NHL puck mover in here or a defensive stud who can move, to pair with Mark Streit? What would Vincent Lecavalier look like with a winger who creates and buries chances better than Wayne Simmonds? What would Sean Couturier look like with TWO productive wingers?"

I'm dead serious: Vincent Lecavalier and Mark Streit...I can't change their ages, or salaries. I know people don't like aspects of what they are now, or bring to the team.

But they weren't the problem here.

Scott Hartnell was "black-holing" the first line. Andrej Meszaros was "black-holing" the defense. Playing Jay Rosehill at all when you're not scoring, and giving Zac Rinaldo more minutes, might be the single-stupidest thing this franchise has done since I started watching it.

I think I've been reading this team fairly decently, and I'm totally serious: Three moves make this team a playoff team -- and they're moves that this franchise should be able to make. They just have to be willing to cash in Wayne Simmonds and Braydon Coburn.

i no i am going to get crucified for this ... but G shouldnt be the captain i said it last night in his own words he lacks confidence.... how can you lead a team without confidence..not a knock on Giroux he is a great player he is a great talent but not every player can be a captain....there are far better choices right now in that locker room 2 they just signed.... vinny was a captain for Tampa for a long time kimmo for Nashville.. striet for NY islanders some times in certain situations you need the experienced guy to be the leader...
- flyer186

I've mentioned that here before about G, but I can't see them pulling the C from him now. The captain isn't always the best player. He needs to find a way to step up here. I have faith that this team turns it around and it needs to start with G.

I miss the halcyon days of last year where all we had to do was lose a few more games and would've most likely gotten the 4th overall pick. Instead the Flyers went on a meaningless win streak which took them out of 5th overall and slid the Flyers down several spots. That meaningless streak not only saved Laviolette's job but was touted as an important building block for this year.

We could have had Seth Jones playing in the lineup this year but instead we got a listless training camp and the earliest firing in league history (which should've been done in the offseason).
- Flyers_01

Please quit whining about that. Morin looks good and they would have taken him as high as 6th anyway.