I can't help but wonder how much rope Holmgren has at this point.
- johndewar

Snider just gave him the public vote of confidence... he's got 6-9 months, tops.

he just glided and watched. it was like that ovechkin .gif.
- hammarby31

unplugged paddle

Snider just gave him the public vote of confidence... he's got 6-9 months, tops.

- Tomahawk

Are we all just assuming that Hextall is the next GM? Isn't that the "more of the same" a lot of people are complaining about?

Are we all just assuming that Hextall is the next GM? Isn't that the "more of the same" a lot of people are complaining about?
- mayorofangrytown

Same old song and dance

You know what? I don't think it'd be all that difficult -- some of that stuff, they're going to do anyway.

If Craig Berube survives this -- and that's not guaranteed, if Ed Snider cleans house and doesn't promote Ron Hextall -- he'll identify guys he likes, as would Hextall or the new GM.

But really, moving many of those pieces around wouldn't be difficult at all.

Simmonds, Voracek and Read are have contracts that are fine. They wouldn't be tough to move.

Hall, Timonen and Meszaros are unrestricted. You can bury Rinaldo and Rosehill in the minors.

Braydon Coburn and Niklas Grossmann aren't even 30 yet. Someone would definitely take Coburn; Grossmann's health concerns make him a tougher sell.

Talbot makes a bit much for a fourth-liner, and again, Hartnell and Lecavalier have full no-moves. Hartnell's contract is one where you'd have to retain salary.

But yeah. It really wouldn't be that difficult to change...10 guys, 12 if you wanted two new goaltenders, without really breaking a sweat.

Couturier and Schenn have value as still-young players. It just wouldn't be that difficult to radically change this team.
- AllInForFlyers

Great, lets drastically change the team yet again. How about building around this core and being patient?

I can't help but wonder how much rope Holmgren has at this point.

Someone earlier suggested he could be gone if they lose to the Pens this week.

I doubt that, but I wonder if they are still kind of floundering around Thanksgiving if Homer will even make it to Christmas.
- johndewar

ho ho ho Homer

Coburn and Grossmann are being used as the first D pair by Berube.

They had an exceptionally good first period.

Grossmann hit a post early skating the puck from blue line to the top of the circle.
His second good shot was into Lu's pads and the rebound resulted in McGinn's backhand goal (very happy for the kid right now, he looks confident and is skating well).

Coburn got beat by a speedy Janik Hansen move down the wing and Mason made a terrific save. Otherwise he was very good + at the start.

Grossmann got called for a penalty when he got his stick parallel near a Sedin, who knew to flop to the ice. Stupid rule, but Sedin's have high hockey IQ.

Second period the G-NN Coburn pair seemed to struggle more, especially with some clears and their coverage.

My point is it is really the same old thing, these two are not a first pair D tandem.
The team right now is using them a lot and the way they play, breakdowns and penalties are going to happen... a lot.

Streit and Kimmo are sadly not top pair guys anymore either.

Luke seems to be in the doghouse right now, maybe, for somewhat unclear reasons to me.

I know the forwards and offense have done very little and their #1 center and Talbot who is supposed to be a good shut down forward, blew coverages leading to goals. There are a ton of problems with the team. I am not totally blaming the defense which has been really pretty decent so far.

But an obvious problem and a big one to me is Grossmann and Coburn by default are playing as their top pairing. After a very good first period they did not look the part.

Third period, well Coburn can go from good to bad in a hurry (Nutter calls him Mr Consistency facetiously) and they lost the game.

Same old same old... lack of filling their need for a top two way guy leads to decent defenseman having to play way to many minutes against the other teams best players.

One other thing... so far I have been disappointed in Jake. He looked prime to bust out this year. I had him pegged as an all star winger waiting to happen. I mean he was controlling the puck and generating top chances with any forward he was paired with last season. So far he has been way under my expectations. And it is hurting them.
- Marc D

I understand your frustration with the goal but I have to agree with J Match. That's not where Giroux is supposed to be on the play. When do you ever see a forward chasing the forechecker deep in the zone? It never happens.

The defensemen deal with the forechecker and the forwards set up for the outlet pass. Kesler was already out numbered 2 to 1 down low in the zone. It's a bad bounce off the boards. It happens once in a while and it blows when it happens to your team but you can't hang that on Giroux.
- mayorofangrytown

Im not hanging it all on G. Kesler was not out numbered 2-1... Timonen was at the side boards, Coburn the other sideboards. The center of the ice was completely open.. Giroux at one point WAS the deepest player... until Kesler rushed the net. Giroux was going that way anyway. He just coasted through.. He looked like he was going to turn that way and head up the ice.. but he stopped skating.

Pause the video at the :37 mark. That is where the problem occurred. G stops skating, Kesler speeds up, and the bounce occurs. There was never a 2v1. When you are the deepest man, you HAVE to support. Instead he coasted. The bounce was unlucky.. there is no doubting that.

Are we all just assuming that Hextall is the next GM? Isn't that the "more of the same" a lot of people are complaining about?
- mayorofangrytown

yes, and yes. but when has anything the fans ever complained about changed the course of snider's action? he just said they don't need a new perspective.

i personally have no issue with hextall taking over, and think he's likely to do a good job. i don't think hiring someone outside is an automatic cure-all fix. hexy's been gone for awhile now and that's probably a good thing. but he bleeds orange, no question about that in my mind. i would love nothing more than to see him raise the cup, even with a suit on.

Snider just gave him the public vote of confidence... he's got 6-9 months, tops.

- Tomahawk

everything will be fine when the team wins 7 out of its last 10

Great, lets drastically change the team yet again. How about building around this core and being patient?
- nastyflyergirl

Are we all just assuming that Hextall is the next GM? Isn't that the "more of the same" a lot of people are complaining about?
- mayorofangrytown

He offered that he's a "very analytical guy" in one of the first interviews he did after coming back... if that's true, then he's already the polar opposite of Homer. My personal hope, and it could be completely unfounded, is that he brings the Flyers front-office into the 21st century... analytics, proprietary metrics, the whole nine yards.

Homer's idea of analyzing a situation is punching it in the face and then pondering over the the blood splatters.

- flyer_nutter

I find my views are aligning more with yours as this season gets worse.

And it is scaring the crap out of me.

I listened to the game on 97.5 last night and Chris Therien brought up an interesting point. He said that with the implementation of a new system, you tend to find players thinking about the system too much instead of making instinctive plays on the ice. I honestly think a good deal of the Flyers offensive issues right now are related to that in some way. You see some players working hard but there is still an ounce of hesitation with their puck decisions and that seems to allow the opposition to remain one step closer defensively.

Also, I hate to quote him, but at least there is this -

Frank Seravalli ‏@DNFlyers 13m
"Flyers practicing identical situation in which H. Sedin fed Higgins last night for the game tying goal."

Great, lets drastically change the team yet again. How about building around this core and being patient?
- nastyflyergirl

I can't tell if he is advocating for this or just saying don't be surprised when it happens, because it is the Flyers.

I find my views are aligning more with yours as this season gets worse.

And it is scaring the crap out of me.


- Marc D

What you mean?

How quickly we forget Homer got this kid for Brian Boucher.
- Giroux_Is_God

Actually we got him for TAKING Brian Boucher. The pair of them cost Luke Pither.... and people think Homer is the problem...

Question for you.

Are you saying "don't be surprised when they make a massive trade/roster shake up"

Or "this is what I personally would like to see them do"
- Marc D

Truthfully?

I...don't know. I don't know, man.

There's something wrong with this team, this organization. Has been for years. I watch so much hockey, sometimes it makes my eyes hurt, and one thing has been consistent, in a bad way:

More often than not, they seem like they aren't ready to play. Ken Hitchcock was the last coach of this team who you pretty much knew was going to have them ready to go at puck drop.

That was seven years ago.

Now, it seems that they're fragile, too. Not mentally tough enough to adapt to adversity. When was the last time this team exerted its will for an extended stretch of games? The Pittsburgh series, maybe?

I have never, ever, ever, known this team to not be able to score. Even Hitchcock's teams, while sometimes painfully boring to watch, could score. He'd turn scorers into checkers, sure, but they could score.

There's something missing with this team, man. Remember when Jason Smith played that playoff series against Pittsburgh with what was revealed to be two separated shoulders?

Who on this team is that tough? Not Jay Rosehill's 2:38 of pointless toughness. But the "I'm going to win this game, no matter what it takes" toughness?

The mix on this team...it just might be bad, man. It happens. It doesn't happen to us a lot, certainly. And we've been fortunate in that regard.

But it does happen, where you put players together and the fit just isn't there, the players just aren't...good enough. Tough enough.

I do wonder about this team. Maybe...I don't know. I don't know that I wouldn't blow this version up.

Because something's missing.

Im not hanging it all on G. Kesler was not out numbered 2-1... Timonen was at the side boards, Coburn the other sideboards. The center of the ice was completely open.. Giroux at one point WAS the deepest player... until Kesler rushed the net. Giroux was going that way anyway. He just coasted through.. He looked like he was going to turn that way and head up the ice.. but he stopped skating.

Pause the video at the :37 mark. That is where the problem occurred. G stops skating, Kesler speeds up, and the bounce occurs. There was never a 2v1. When you are the deepest man, you HAVE to support. Instead he coasted. The bounce was unlucky.. there is no doubting that.
- jak521

If the puck goes behind the net like it's supposed to he is indeed out numbered 2 to 1 down low and Mason can go left or right with the puck at his discretion and Kesler is chasing the play. The puck didn't go behind the net and that's the problem. Forwards don't chase the forechecker on what should be a standard play.

It's not worth continuing. We see the responsibility completely differently.

Actually we got him for TAKING Brian Boucher. The pair of them cost Luke Pither.... and people think Homer is the problem...
- flyler

luke who?

Hail to the Chief! When you lead the world in penalties, hire a goon!
- PLindbergh31

Honestly, thats not fair to Berube. How he was as a player has nothing to do with how he may be as a coach. they are not good enough right now but they are much better than they were under Lavy defensively

I listened to the game on 97.5 last night and Chris Therien brought up an interesting point. He said that with the implementation of a new system, you tend to find players thinking about the system too much instead of making instinctive plays on the ice. I honestly think a good deal of the Flyers offensive issues right now are related to that in some way. You see some players working hard but there is still an ounce of hesitation with their puck decisions and that seems to allow the opposition to remain one step closer defensively.

- mcefalu

This sounds about right. Let's see if the org/fan base has the patience to wait this out. I hope they do.

Also, I hate to quote him, but at least there is this -

Frank Seravalli ‏@DNFlyers 13m
"Flyers practicing identical situation in which H. Sedin fed Higgins last night for the game tying goal."
- mcefalu

That's a good thing, I would think. When things break down, those are teachable moments.

The Flyers have 6 proven 20+ goal goal scorers on the roster. There is the potential for B. Schenn to score 20 goals, that would make 7. They don't have a player that would be considered a true sniper. But tell me, who is the sniper on Boston? TB has Stamkos and St. Louis. They missed the playoffs last year. And this talk of McGinn doing it better is the same talk we heard last year with Lauridsen. Get rid of the proven NHL defenseman to play Lauridsen based on a small sample of games. Adding a top scorer would add to the team, but it's not the miracle cure all.
- MJL

Yeah and thats the problem... You still dont make my point invalid... If your talking about Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, and Hartnell all being 20 goal scorers... You clearly havent been watching the games... None of them have goals... And as far as Boston having scorers they have Lucic, Krejci, Bergeron (when healthy) and Marchand... ALL IN WHICH HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT GOAL SCORERS! And i agree with you on Lauridsen but again i disagree with you about McGinn.. He has played 2 games, scored 3 goals and is the teams LEAD SCORER! Mind you were only 7 games in! You would think one of your proven 20 goal scorers would have done something by now? And as far as getting a proven sniper.... well all i should really have to say is Tomas Vanek... Guy is the hole team on Buffalo... and he is consistent.. Every one on the flyers that you call proven 20 goal scorers get hot in a stretch then die out... Voracek is our only "scorer" and as you can see him off Giroux's line doesnt get him goals... So your point again was what?

Highly unlikely.

Holmgren might lose his job at some point this season, but it's not going to be this week.
- johndewar

Especially since the team doesn't play tonight

Wow. 10 games for Kaleta. Likely for Lapierre too.